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edwin_yang
Known Hero
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posted March 10, 2008 02:45 PM |
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I am sure it doesnt work, either in range nor melee attack
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okrane
Famous Hero
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posted March 10, 2008 05:35 PM |
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How come this does not surprise me?
I suggest replacing her ability by the one that reduces damage from ranged attacks
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted March 10, 2008 06:25 PM |
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Edited by samiekl at 18:27, 10 Mar 2008.
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Her special is great, why change it? I would make her ability to work with the new upgrades too, as in the case of Sorgal (i dont think it works for him either). I think the developers forgot about those things, and if there must be a patch, they should take care of them. If not, i dont mind using the old upgrades, they are just as good.
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okrane
Famous Hero
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posted March 10, 2008 07:04 PM |
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ChaosDragon
Famous Hero
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posted March 11, 2008 01:29 PM |
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It doesn't work on mistress.
Why the developer make alt upg? because they want more variation in your strategy.
Eruina is made for the old upg, not the alt ones.
So if your main hero is Eruina, use matriarch.
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted March 11, 2008 01:35 PM |
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I asked because i saw somewhere that Eruina's special works with the mistresses. Come to think about it, it would be too much maybe. But for the record, i use the old upgrades more often than the new ones.
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okrane
Famous Hero
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posted March 11, 2008 01:36 PM |
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Quote:
It doesn't work on mistress.
Why the developer make alt upg? because they want more variation in your strategy.
Eruina is made for the old upg, not the alt ones.
So if your main hero is Eruina, use matriarch.
I'm sorry, but after reading this my brain hurts.
No wonder idiot developers get away with sloppiness... fans would just swallow anything, and even argue in favor of it...
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted March 11, 2008 01:40 PM |
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Okrane, why are you always not satisfied? Think about it, invisibility + Eruina is kinda too much, dont you think?
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okrane
Famous Hero
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posted March 11, 2008 01:44 PM |
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Edited by okrane at 13:45, 11 Mar 2008.
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That's a flaw of mine I suffer from in real life too... leads to lots of unhappiness.
But simply put the game could have been better, with just minor polishing
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted March 11, 2008 01:50 PM |
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It always can be better. The game now is almost perfectly balanced, with some exceptions, of course, like divine vengeance for example (i had a game vs academy when even my opponent said that its too much; witches killed all his djins, stalkers all his gargoyles, then divine vengeance killed both stalkers and witches, it's unfair).
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okrane
Famous Hero
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posted March 11, 2008 02:29 PM |
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Edited by okrane at 14:36, 11 Mar 2008.
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It's kind of hard to believe that such a complex game like heroes could be balanced after only 4 patches/expansions.
I mean, it took 21 patches to balance Warcraft 3 and I think in terms of complexity Heroes 5 is not that way behind.
And I believe there are some major imbalances to the game that should be taken into account. The problem is not that it functions as Rock-scissors-paper, it's just that there are no counters for some strategies. For example:
* On a large map with a Memory Mentor, like Hourglass, can Haven counter Sylvan with Nature's Luck? As haven's ultimate sucks, no matter the perk selection the haven player won't have the power to counterbalance this.
* On a small map, Like Heritage of Deleb, can Sylvan counter a week 2 Dungeon rush?
You say the game is balanced because for all races there exist maps which advantage them and maps which disadvantage them. However, balance is all about giving equal opportunities to all races/Heroes/Alternate Upgrades on the same map. That's why I think the game is not balanced.
Furthermore, as not all heroes are viable, at least with different roles but still viable to something different than mules, I think there are still problems. Some other things needing twitches are the alternate upgrade system, which has its flaws, and let's not forget the spells, Chain Lightning vs Meteor Shower is a good example, Earthquake is another, and the skills: Tremors and Plague Tent, anyone?
So as I was saying, this game has potential, but there are so many small polishings to be done. However, Nival, as they already sold the game, they don't care about doing them and improve our customer experience.
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nosfe
Adventuring Hero
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posted March 11, 2008 02:35 PM |
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Edited by nosfe at 14:43, 11 Mar 2008.
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the solution for vengeance is to kill his high dmg output creatures first, that way, even if he uses vengeance you'll be more or less equal, also warlocks have massive dmg potential due to destro magic which is "immune" to vengeance so i'd say warlock has the easiest time vs vengeance
okrane, those are custom maps, its not the game's fault, the maps are the problem there
yes, there are a couple of problems with the current spells (chain lightning sucks) and the like, nobody's saying that the game is perfect but imho its pretty close
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted March 11, 2008 02:46 PM |
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No, it's true. Whether they are custom or not maps come from small to extra large. It's all about how fast you can reach your opponent and some are just faster. Personally I don't care, you accept that some maps are imbalanced and play the others.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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nosfe
Adventuring Hero
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posted March 11, 2008 02:59 PM |
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well i only play on random maps and there are no magic wells and no memory mentors(or at least i haven't seen them) so it isn't that easy to just rush with dungeon because of lack of mana and also because you don't know the maps, thats the main reason why i play on random maps, i can't stand to play a map where i know the layout/monsters/etc
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted March 11, 2008 03:19 PM |
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Quote:
* On a large map with a Memory Mentor, like Hourglass, can Haven counter Sylvan with Nature's Luck? As haven's ultimate sucks, no matter the perk selection the haven player won't have the power to counterbalance this.
* On a small map, Like Heritage of Deleb, can Sylvan counter a week 2 Dungeon rush?
You say the game is balanced because for all races there exist maps which advantage them and maps which disadvantage them. However, balance is all about giving equal opportunities to all races/Heroes/Alternate Upgrades on the same map. That's why I think the game is not balanced.
Furthermore, as not all heroes are viable, at least with different roles but still viable to something different than mules, I think there are still problems. Some other things needing twitches are the alternate upgrade system, which has its flaws, and let's not forget the spells, Chain Lightning vs Meteor Shower is a good example, Earthquake is another, and the skills: Tremors and Plague Tent, anyone?
On medium-large sized maps all races are pretty well balanced. So yeah, haven can counter sylvan's nature's luck on HG. And how many times do people need to tell you that all heroes are fine? Need an example? In HG Lethos can take some fights faster than any other dungeon hero, Kythra has easy access to empathy, Yrwanna levels up the fastest, Eruina and Sinitar have great specials, Sorgal has easy access to power of speed and the best for a might dungeon (with light magic), Vayshan no comment, Yrbeth is very good in the area between the gates, to rush there and try to attack his hero on week 3, early week 4 she's the best.
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okrane
Famous Hero
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posted March 11, 2008 04:51 PM |
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Let's compare some more:
Yrbeth vs Lethos. All Yrbeth has extra is 50 extra mana at level 25 with Dark Ritual. Lethos can get DR too and with 15 knowledge + intelligence, 50 extra mana won't matter much.
Sorgal. Ok, might Warlock. A might warlock implies end-game in which all heroes can get those skills. Really hard to believe that access to power of speed early is that useful, especially when you can kill most stuff better with spells. Any warlock can get Power of speed easily.
Other comparisons. Let's not stop here. Please tell me how this is balanced:
Talanar vs Ossir
Faiz vs Nur
Alastor vs Deleb
Kilghan vs Kragh
Svea vs Ingvar
Other imbalances reside in spells. Spells of the same level are so much weaker than their counterparts.
Chain Lightning vs Meteor Shower
First of Wrath vs Fire Trap
Earthquake vs Phantom Force or Blade Barrier
Word of Light vs Resurrection
Divine venceance...
And I won't start with alternate upgrades.
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phoenixreborn
Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
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posted March 11, 2008 04:54 PM |
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but they're equally accessible to everyone...oh wait, nevermind.
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nosfe
Adventuring Hero
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posted March 11, 2008 04:57 PM |
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Edited by nosfe at 16:57, 11 Mar 2008.
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my guess with the spells is that they made it so at every level there's a (mostly) useless spell so that magic heroes wouldn't get too overpowered
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okrane
Famous Hero
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posted March 11, 2008 05:00 PM |
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Quote:
my guess with the spells is that they made it so at every level there's a (mostly) useless spell so that magic heroes wouldn't get too overpowered
Well, if that's the case then it's really stupid.
Randomness imho, should be there to spice up the game and make you think and not always use the same strategy. I should not be there to function as a chance system of which the fate of the game depends.
I mean, I think Ch. Lightning is even weaker than fireball in terms of damage most of the time, especially if the enemy has war machines.
Anyway, enough rambling...
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted March 11, 2008 05:23 PM |
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Okrane, why do you keep playing the game? You're right on every aspect. Seems that no matter how many people tell you that you're wrong, it doesnt matter...
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This thread is pages long: 
