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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: Maps- how they affect gameplay strategies
Thread: Maps- how they affect gameplay strategies This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
Sanyu
Sanyu


Known Hero
posted April 02, 2007 11:03 AM

Maps- how they affect gameplay strategies

Recently, I lost badly to this Necropolis player while playing with Inferno. Well, not that bad considering that:

His stats: Att-14 Def-15 SP-21 Knowledge-10

My stats: Att-18 Def-3 SP-4 Knowledge-8

His level: 21

My level: 15

Sure you'll say, serves you right for not exploring the map enough to hoard artifacts. (btw, the dreaded map is Disrupted Island)

But you have to know I have this extremely annoying habit. I cant accept anything slightly more than zero loss without flinching or cringing. So, the stack of phoenixes guarding the entrance to the treasure trove in the middle of the map led to my downfall. It was too late when I was prepared to fight it; all the goodies were raided clean by my opponent- the dragon ultopia, the countless number of creeps, very good artifacts like Sandro's Cloak, Cloak of Death shadow, the no-ranged-penalty bow thingy, tons of cash and gold mines....

While there were many factors that led to my downfall, such as not being able to procure Dark Magic even at Lvl 15 (wtf, 8%!!!) or the phoenixes joining him, the major reason was due to the map's design such that should you remain passive, you will lose eventually.

Not that I'm going to blame the map the least bit, for I'm at fault. But instead, I want to hear strategies from you all for different types of maps. (not those faction-based strategies but generic ones)

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted April 02, 2007 11:08 AM

If the map has a dragon utopia, don't play it! The first that reaches that place wins (creeping it is very easy) and the game turns into some weird kind of racing through the map.

In general the one that gets more arties and goodies wins on most maps anyway. If you don't like it, try peninsula perhaps.

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feluniozbunio
feluniozbunio


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted April 02, 2007 11:13 AM

I guess now you know what was i talking about when i said that some castles creep faster and other slower?
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Sanyu
Sanyu


Known Hero
posted April 02, 2007 11:21 AM

Quote:
I guess now you know what was i talking about when i said that some castles creep faster and other slower?


No, it has nothing to do with my creeping tactics. That works fine.

It is totally my phobia's fault. Like for example, would you mind losing a couple of cerebus + familiars whilst fighting phoenixes?

I would.

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feluniozbunio
feluniozbunio


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted April 02, 2007 11:23 AM

So that means you either need to use to losses or choose other faction because inferno is very poor at creeping.
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Sanyu
Sanyu


Known Hero
posted April 02, 2007 11:27 AM

Quote:
So that means you either need to use to losses or choose other faction because inferno is very poor at creeping.


I'll try to get used then. No way am I going to agree that Inferno is poor at creeping especially when I find it a breeze

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Istari
Istari


Known Hero
Truth Teller, ToH
posted April 02, 2007 07:46 PM

It sounds like you learned the hard way, what the penalty for ultra conservative creeping is.  The extra experience, artifacts, mines, gold... is almost always worth a few casualties.  Having 100% of your creatures at the end of the game doesn't do much if your hero is 8 levels behind.
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Opinions are immunity to being told you're wrong.

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executor
executor


Famous Hero
Otherworldly Ambassador
posted April 02, 2007 11:50 PM

Quote:
If the map has a dragon utopia, don't play it!


Unless it has 2 or more .
Yes, avoiding loses at all costs is stupidity as long as 'all costs' means losing the game . You should consider a bit larger losses. Creeping should be efficient, I mean the benefits/losses ratio should be maximized, and this often does not mean the smallest losses .
____________
Understanding is a three-edged sword.

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Sanyu
Sanyu


Known Hero
posted April 03, 2007 10:54 AM

Quote:
Quote:
If the map has a dragon utopia, don't play it!


Unless it has 2 or more .
Yes, avoiding loses at all costs is stupidity as long as 'all costs' means losing the game . You should consider a bit larger losses. Creeping should be efficient, I mean the benefits/losses ratio should be maximized, and this often does not mean the smallest losses .


How much loss then, do you think is acceptable? I'll simply give you that scenario where there are around 10-11 phoenixes... (times two due to speciality)

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted April 03, 2007 11:04 AM

Well, there are units you don't want to lose, and those that you shouldn't care for too much. Think which ones are the most useful for you in the battles with other players (not necessarily the ones that are considered the best, mind you..) and try to keep them healthy. You can lose a bit of the rest.

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feluniozbunio
feluniozbunio


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted April 03, 2007 11:11 AM
Edited by feluniozbunio at 11:16, 03 Apr 2007.

With each castle i play i have a creeping strategy which prevents losses. Usually in third week i am able to creep anything on the map with minimal losses (few low tier units). You need to figure out your own strategy. Placing everything on battlefield and charge doesn't do no good at creeping.

What is more you should get to know maps. Its important to know where is what and when can you go there. To creep efficiently you need to be quick which means kill as often as you can. Make your creeping paths for each maps, you really don't want to wander around pointless.
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ZombieLord
ZombieLord


Promising
Famous Hero
that wants your brainz...
posted April 03, 2007 01:22 PM

I also don't like losing troops at creeping but I got used to it
What bothers me the most about losing troops is that you can't replace them because of the stupid growth. You know, I can't buy another extra level 2 creature because I lost it, etc.

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Sanyu
Sanyu


Known Hero
posted April 03, 2007 03:18 PM

@Doomforge
yea, i wont mind losing horned overseer and to some extent, even nightmares, for different reasons of course. Horned Overseer is useless anyway, while nightmare; i keep telling myself it has +1 growth a week.
@feluniozbunio
I'll try to strategise before the game.
@zombielord
exactly the reason i hate losing them

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PhoenixReborn
PhoenixReborn


Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
posted April 03, 2007 04:00 PM

I can rarely afford all the troops that are available.  So I don't mind losing some troops because I can replace them with the unbought ones.

I think on that map either I try to take on the phoenixes when there are only 8, or the a.i. kills them for me!
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Bask in the light of my glorious shining unicorn.

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ZombieLord
ZombieLord


Promising
Famous Hero
that wants your brainz...
posted April 03, 2007 04:16 PM

Quote:
I can rarely afford all the troops that are available.  So I don't mind losing some troops because I can replace them with the unbought ones.

That's the point. You DON'T BUY WHAT YOU LOSE. You buy what this growth system limits you, not what you want to buy

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feluniozbunio
feluniozbunio


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted April 03, 2007 04:42 PM
Edited by feluniozbunio at 16:46, 03 Apr 2007.

Yeah but this has always been a feature of HoMM, right? And to be honest i like it. I wouldn't like a RTS approach where you mass few types of units.
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executor
executor


Famous Hero
Otherworldly Ambassador
posted April 03, 2007 10:35 PM

Quote:
Yeah but this has always been a feature of HoMM, right? And to be honest i like it. I wouldn't like a RTS approach where you mass few types of units.


Yes, warlock would amass hydras to ridiculous numbers and own everyone...
Not only growth idea was within HoMM since it's beginning, but it was HoMM to INVENT this system. It is one among a few features that distinguish HoMM from everything else. HoMM without growth would be like Quake without rocket launcher or Warcraft without Orcs - it simply couldn't exist as HoMM. And I personally love growth idea... unless I run out of troops not funds... Then I love it a bit less... .
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Understanding is a three-edged sword.

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Sanyu
Sanyu


Known Hero
posted April 04, 2007 10:32 AM

Daily growth would solve the problems.

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nickkkk
nickkkk


Known Hero
Necro fan since 1988
posted May 13, 2007 07:04 AM

can anyone help me?
I made a map, but when I want to play it breaks. Only once worked, but for only 30 min, after that I simply enter the map and when I move the mouse, the game crashes. So? What do I do? The editor said that the map was well formed.

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Homer171
Homer171


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted May 13, 2007 11:57 AM

Quote:
Daily growth would solve the problems.


Heroes 4 daily growth was fine but i like weekly growth better. Building gold suplies and resource silos whenever i want and not 'loosing troops' by this. I can wait and buy creature dwelling in seventh day if i like. Making building plans like: I wanna Dragons in end of week 2 but should i buy Capitol first... Not possible allways tough.

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