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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: chaining - day one (questions)
Thread: chaining - day one (questions)
Demarest
Demarest


Known Hero
posted April 06, 2007 11:05 AM

chaining - day one (questions)

I understand the basic concept of chaining. It's a lot of fun and definitely changes the way the game is played. I'm still a bit foggy about day one. So I was hoping somebody would literally explain step by step how they handle day one.

For example, you have three heroes: Your starting hero and two in the Tavern; one of which carries native creatures. I'm assumin most everybody hires both at least right? Maybe look at who's carrying what and hire the one with the fastest creatures first so that all scouts can be as mobile as possible, eh? Once you've bought that first one, do you just set whichever hero you definitely will NOT be using outside? Do you throw them down a roadway stopping at nothing to uncover maximum cover day one? Then say you buy the other hero. Do you then send your lesser of these two heroes down a different roadway stopping at nothing to uncover maximum cover? And then if there's non roadway areas to uncover, do you hire a hero per direction one could freely move in? Finally sending your "main" hero out based on what you can see now?

OR do you hire the two heroes, decide on a main based on who you have and who you can see in the Tavern now and send them out where you can see fights? And then send out scouts one by one to pick up the creatures and fight other creatures nearby, hiring heroes as need be?

I can see the merit in both ways and I'm having a hard time feeling effective the first couple days even though I've dramatically improved my game in recent times. Call me a perfectionist. Call me curious. But I'd really appreciate if others would share how they tackle day one. Thank you for your time.

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maretti
maretti


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted April 06, 2007 11:50 AM

What I do depends on the template (what kind of random map it is). On most templates I buy 5 heroes day 1, on jebus normally 7. I make sure all scouts get a single of the fastest lvl 1 or 2 creature I have. If I play castle or rampart on jebus or tower and inferno on any map I buy mage guild day 1 to give everyone spells.

If I know there are towns at the end of some roads ill send a strong magic hero in that direction with 3 single units, if I dont have magic arrow ill make him check scrolls and scrines on the way there.

Normally Its obvious who will be my main but if I have two equal heroes ill try to visit learning stones or a scolar to decide who will be my main. Its important to find that out quickly.

Now ill move all scouts out to explore in diffrent directions. If im blocked some places by easy blocks ill send a scout there to beat the block so that I can explore in that direction next turn and chain the army back. The scouts will pick up gold and resources on the way. I might keep a scout in the town (for example if I play tower and wanna upgrade gremlins day 2 or if i play inferno so that I can bring 8 gogs day 2 to the army). If a scout explores something that the main should visit ill save some movement on that scout so that he can take the slow part of the army from the main after the main has completed his move. I normally keep one or two scouts close to the main to keep slow army and to pick up stuff that blocks the mains way. Its important that the main wastes as little movement as possible. Speed is everything. On rich templates I pick up xp from chests with the main if he passes close by them the first few days to boost his skills.

Hope this answeres your question.
____________
Crag rules, Orrin and Ivor suck

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Xarfax111
Xarfax111


Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
The last hero standing
posted April 07, 2007 12:10 AM

No, dont let any hero sit in your castle. Just have them back at the correct time. Example:

You play Inferno. The day before you build sultan efreets your scout needs to be timed with his last steps back into your town. The chain has to be in perfect order. From your town in a perfect line one by one to almost any of your heros. When you buy your efreets any hero in the chain will fight with them, so you will have freed enough resources for the rest of the buildings.

Please no castle sitting.

Xarfax1

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Demarest
Demarest


Known Hero
posted April 07, 2007 01:24 AM

Quote:
No, dont let any hero sit in your castle. Just have them back at the correct time. Example:

You play Inferno. The day before you build sultan efreets your scout needs to be timed with his last steps back into your town. The chain has to be in perfect order. From your town in a perfect line one by one to almost any of your heros. When you buy your efreets any hero in the chain will fight with them, so you will have freed enough resources for the rest of the buildings.

Please no castle sitting.

Xarfax1
Sounds like great advice for day seven or eight. I'm curious as to how you utilize your heroes day ONE.

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Xarfax111
Xarfax111


Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
The last hero standing
posted April 07, 2007 02:32 AM

...it depends on the difficulty/map/template you play.

If you play a normal template 200% difficulty your main goal should be to built the efreet building on day 7, with the scout waiting end of turn. On day 8 you need to buy as much efreetis as you can and make the "money chain". 2 or 3 splitted Efreetis in a hand of a might hero, fighting within their 90hps range, can do a lot more then you might expect.

Online games are normally played on 160%, so both walls should be a goal too. Here it is day 4 to be in the town, to chain efreetis to the money chain on day 5.

Best regards Xarfax1

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Xarfax111
Xarfax111


Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
The last hero standing
posted April 07, 2007 02:46 AM

..oh ok day one.

On a random map crypts are your main goal (except you are inferno cause there are no crypts on inferno land). Day one is all about picking up money. Dont waste movement points about picking up recourse you dont need or artifacts you dont need or anything else that doesnt help you to build up your building! Money is the key to go on day one. Put your starting hero on one hero. Let the other scout money to buy more scouts (dont buy too much if your area is small with heavy blocks). Moneymanagement is everything. If you can buy a hero that can pick up resources you can spend the money for the building at the end of turn. If you see a crypt, your goal is to take it (see for crypt techniques in the library, its easier then you think). Dont let the scout go back to town if you dont need reinforcements. Best thing is to keep your heroes in the "most promising" area to let them chain the map with your starting area. If one hero is enough to collect the now free resources in time, let him alone collect them. Go with the rest of the heros into the next area. Not needed resources can be selected when the scout goes back the next week.

and-so-on  

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Binabik
Binabik


Responsible
Legendary Hero
posted April 07, 2007 09:37 AM

I hate to say something obvious, but day one build can be related to this also.

For example if you are playing Fortress.  If there are no flies on the starting hero or in the tavern, then build flies right away and give one to each scout. It may be tempting to build lizards or wyverns, but you're better off getting flies on your scouts day one.  95% of the time the lizards or wyverns can wait.

If you hire 5 scouts on day one, the difference between gnolls and flies totals 140 steps the first week.....that is a LOT of movement.

With other towns you can do the math.  Even one step more travel per day totals 35 steps in the first week with 5 scouts.

Remember the most valuable resource is movement points, so think before you use that precious resource. (that's something I need to learn better)
____________

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angelito
angelito


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
posted April 07, 2007 10:28 AM

Quote:
No, dont let any hero sit in your castle. Just have them back at the correct time......

....Please no castle sitting.

Xarfax1
I have to disagree here. There are towns and circumstances which make it necessary to keep 1 hero in town day 1. And he was asking about DAY 1 in his opening post.

Those examples are:
1.) Stronghold
- if no Wolves built day 1, then u get Rocs day 2 only. But Rocs are essential for Stronghold early. So u set up your chain day 1, and need full movement on the "deliverer" of these Rocs on day 2. You may also consider keeping a scout in town day 1 if you've built Rocs day 1 and know u can build Behemots next day. You get that Behemot day 2, and can "deliver" it day 2 to a more far place if your first hero has max. movement.

2.) Tower
- if u need to upgrade your Gremlins day 2 (you've built mage guild day 1 for spells on all scouts). Same reason as above

3.) Rampart
- if u need to upgrade your elves day 2. Same reason as above.


Inferno is not a good example, coz u rarely need anything from your town day 2 (8 gogs if not prebuilt....). Efreetis coming later.
____________
Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.

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Binabik
Binabik


Responsible
Legendary Hero
posted April 07, 2007 10:48 AM

So why buy the scout day 1 if he/she just sits there?  Because hopefully the scout will be faster on day 2 than day 1.  Unless I see a faster hero in the tavern I try to leave a fast unit in the garrison for just this reason.  Trade the slow level 1 unit for the faster unit in the garrison.  At the time the last scout leaves the town I might not know yet if I need a "delivery" on day 2.  So leaving a fast unit in the garrison is a good practice when possible.
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Demarest
Demarest


Known Hero
posted April 07, 2007 12:45 PM

Quote:
There are towns and circumstances which make it necessary to keep 1 hero in town day 1. And he was asking about DAY 1 in his opening post.

...

But Rocs are essential for Stronghold early. So u set up your chain day 1, and need full movement on the "deliverer" of these Rocs on day 2.
I get this. The part I'm unclear about is how do YOU set up that chain? A couple people have said it depends on the template, but I'm not taking that into consideration. You start off with one hero and almost zero visibility. What's the most efficient way to set out on day one to get the most visibility without sending the right people in the wrong direction and such. I've experimented with different approaches and I'm not sure which one feels better. Plus, there seems to always be the risk of hiring too many and/or not enough heroes.

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Xarfax111
Xarfax111


Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
The last hero standing
posted April 07, 2007 02:45 PM

Quote:
Quote:
No, dont let any hero sit in your castle. Just have them back at the correct time......

....Please no castle sitting.

Xarfax1


@angelito: You dont have to disagree. This line just suits perfectly to your szenarios.

1. Just haven them back the the correct time:

Means have them back to get the Birds and stuff etc. Each town has their correct time, when they get their Hitters to the Chain. So no disagreement there.

If you need a scout in the town on day 2, let one pick up the nearby resources and get em back in town on day 1. Dont just let him sit in town, as simple as that. I think we dont disagree on that point.

@binabik: You can generalize to take the flys. Sometimes you might loose the necessary resources and therefore fighting power if spend your resources on that building. I think it depends on the map and is one of the first decisions to take fast on day one.

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angelito
angelito


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
posted April 07, 2007 03:27 PM
Edited by angelito at 15:29, 07 Apr 2007.

Quote:
The part I'm unclear about is how do YOU set up that chain? A couple people have said it depends on the template, but I'm not taking that into consideration. You start off with one hero and almost zero visibility. What's the most efficient way to set out on day one to get the most visibility without sending the right people in the wrong direction and such...
The template IS important for the decisions day 1 though. If u play jebus template, u will make different decisions than playing Extreme2 template for example.
Why?
Because you know on jebus (if map not bugged), u will have 3 roads. 2 of them lead to 2 neutral towns, 1 leads to desert (treasure area) which has a hugh guard.
On Extreme2, you only have 1 road, leading to your next small area with a neutral necro town. Guards there are tough to take week 1, u need luck to find walkers or undeads.

So in general, I would always follow the road as far as u can with your first (scout) hero. Only collect things ON the road. When u see he only has 1 or 2 movement left, step off the road and send 2nd (scout) hero down the same road. He/she should have free road now, so he/she can travel more far than the first one. Now you should see some more things to 1 direction outside your town.
Now it depends on the difficulty you play. If 160%, money will already be short. If 130%, you can go on buying a few more heroes. As mentioned already, 5 heroes (including your starting hero) should be your goal on any template day 1 at least.
3rd hero could now walk (with small steps!) in the opposit direction of the road. This way u keep a chain. 1 hero far down the road...second not as far....town....3rd hero. Hope u get the picture.


@Xarfax
Yep you are right. Missinterpreted your lines....
____________
Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.

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maretti
maretti


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted February 06, 2008 08:06 PM

Really illustrates how filthy rich jebus is. You spend 2500 gold for one days movement of a scout.
____________
Crag rules, Orrin and Ivor suck

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liophy
liophy


Famous Hero
Bulgarian
posted February 07, 2008 01:07 AM

yes, it is reach, but not filthy rich. practice shows, that a lot of the times your break is delayed because of the upgrade of the angles. espetialy if they are 6 ( from dwelling).

And i dont buy just 1 day scout movement. Its chaining. by day 4 at least 1 of your scouts is near your second or third town, so you can hide him there. And thats the time when angel must be delievered to main. So the 9-th hero from main castle comes in to use.

And there is another thing - the more heroes you buy, the better chance of perfect main hero (crag, tazar). Ofcourse just 1 more compared to 8 is not much, but still - you never know your luck.

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maretti
maretti


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted February 07, 2008 01:23 AM
Edited by maretti at 01:27, 07 Feb 2008.

Ofcourse you are right Liophy in everything you say (besides that its not filthy rich). But it still shows you that its exstremely rich.
____________
Crag rules, Orrin and Ivor suck

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liophy
liophy


Famous Hero
Bulgarian
posted February 07, 2008 10:16 AM

Well... yes. In comparison to 8xm8 its filthy rich in resourses

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demarest
demarest


Known Hero
posted February 23, 2008 08:03 PM

@angelito: Many apologies for the VERY delayed reply. The reason why I don't pay attention to template is because I don't even know if I have the ones you're talking about. Besides that, I think part of the skill of the game is adapting based on what you can see. Part of the reason I have such a hard time evolving in HOMM3 is because my brain is good at figuring out puzzles, so I always tend to figure out the "rules" to always live by. But HOMM3 random maps can be so different, there is no one rule that works, so I'm trying to figure out what works for other people.

Your description of day 1 exploration was very helpful. Thank you for that. It just leaves me one question: What about your starting Sawmill and Ore Pit? What about other mines you see? How important are these to flag NOW? I tend to play larger maps, so the impact of a flagged mine in the long run can be tremendous.

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