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Cookie
Adventuring Hero
*cookie magic*
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posted April 11, 2007 03:16 AM |
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If the new upgrades come with new buildings, this gonna be an interesting thing for combinations and looks in town. I LUV 3-D towns.
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lichie_lich
Hired Hero
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posted April 11, 2007 04:18 AM |
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I posted this at the official forum: My idea of Academy alternate upgrades:
Alt lvl1: Gremlin Saboteurs: Loses repair ability but better stats plus deals double damage to mechanical creatures. (Come to think of it, gremlins are meant to damage machines (instead of repairing), traditionally.
Alt lvl2: Marble Gargoyle: May not have the extra resistances Obsidian Gs have, but have better stats, especially speed. Maybe have 'stone form' where they gain extra defense when defending.
Alt lvl3: Gold Golem: Yay! These guys are back from HIV! Dunno what abilites they should gave though.
Alt lvl4: Battle Mage: Already confirmed...
Alt Lvl5: Guardian Djinn: These are THE buffed up Genies. Heaps more HP and better stats overall, Instead of having the random spell casting thing they cast a random buff spell on themselves automatically every four turns.
Alt Lvl6: Rakshasa Rani: They should call the unupgraded ones just plain 'Rakshasa' while ugraded ones Rakshasa Raja & Rakshasa Rani (King & Queen). Ranis have weaker att&def&hp than Rajas, but have more speed and initiative, with spread attack like Sprites and Cerberi.
Alt Lvl6: Talos: I have been having the idea of this creature for a while, check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talos for their mythical background. Talos(es) are the fiery version of Titans, Losing the range attack but are better at melee. Have 'Fiery Grasp' ability which allows them to bind attacked creatures (like manticores) except that the bound creatures are dealt fire damage repeatedly.
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emilsn
Legendary Hero
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posted April 11, 2007 07:24 AM |
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I loved almost everything Iblis. He had great ideas and balanced ideas...
But why do we need that GOld golem, they ruined the idea of it in HoMM IV ! Totally bad...
____________
Don't walk behind me; I may not
lead. Don't walk in front of me;
I may not follow. Just walk
beside me and be my friend.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted April 11, 2007 10:14 AM |
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It can be even rust golem, the material doesn't matter: it's the idea of making a faster&more offensive(but weaker) golem. 
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted April 11, 2007 01:51 PM |
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I've got a few ideas for the alternative upgrades. These are in no way confirmed, this is just what I would think usefull or plausible or just plain fun. My ideas aren't limitless and I don't have ideas on all units, just a couple of them. Not that
For Haven, I think they will get the Renegades as alts, they do not have the stats of HoF, but are downgraded.
Hellhound could be more defence-oriented in the alt, maybe it would become a Lava Hound, basicly keeping it's form but with a carpace of nearly hardend lava; Efectively giving at a weak Fire-shield ability and more defence but losing it's three-heads.
The Pit Fiend could turn away from it's spellcasting role and go into Melee, becoming a Pit Warrior; with a minor defence and damage-range upgrade and a major speed-upgrade. Keeping Vorpal Sword, but trading the spells for a melee-ability, it woul apear to wear more armor than the Fiend
The Bone-Dragon could become a spellcaster turning it into a Lich Dragon, but I have no ideas how that would affect appearance or many of it's already low-end stats.
I wouldn't know how Dungeon-alts would turn-out or preform.
The Upgrade of the Djinn could be an Efreet. This would be a more fire-based Djinn ofcourse with perhaps a flaming Scimitars. Their Random-Caster ability would not preform Dark or Light magic but Destructive magic instead. It could also recieve a larger HP-increase at cost of it's defense.
The upgrade of the Iron Golem could be a Alloy Golem. It would have less magic resistance than the Iron Golem but due to their lightweight but dureable substance be a more effective Melee unit.
The Upgrade of the Gremlin could be the Gremlin Sapper. Basicly losing the ability to repair but gaining an area-of-effect and/or seige capabilities. Turning their initiative and speed upgrade into a Damage and and a greater attack upgrade.
The upgrade of the Blade Dancer could be a Blade Warden. Statwise remaining the same as a War Dancer, but changing Dancecombo into Bash. It would apear as An Elf with some leather armor and a Tearshield instead of the Second blade.
Again, no ideas for the Fortress.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted April 12, 2007 03:33 PM |
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guys, gargs already are obsidian in h5 ;p
Nice ideas Iblis, albeit your alternatives are a bit overpowered, I think 
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted April 12, 2007 03:53 PM |
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I think, actually, if one wants to make a qualified guess for what the alternative upgrades will bring, one should look at the current units, more specifically compare the standard units to the upgrade, and look for what changes and what does not change. Let me give some examples:
Mage
Attack: 10
Defence: 10
Damage: 7 - 7
Initiative: 10
Speed: 4
HP: 18
Mana: 15
Shots: 3
Archmage
Attack: 10
Defence: 10
Damage: 7 - 7
Initiative: 10
Speed: 4
HP: 30
Mana: 25
Shots: 4
Now, the Archmage focuses on improving the Spellcasting abilities during combat. So, what would the likely approach be for the alternative? Improving the combat abilities.
Battlemage
Attack: 12
Defence: 10
Damage: 10-10
Initiative: 10
Speed: 4
HP: 25
Mana: 10
Shots: 8
Of course, I don't know what the exact stats will be, but it seems like a reasonable assumption that if they wanna make a combat-oriented alternative, they will increase Attack and Damage, but decrease casting potential (exemplified by Mana).
Considering that most of the units change only 3-4 properties on upgrade, usually focusing towards either more offensive or more deffensive, it's likely that the new version will change the other properties to work towards the alternative extreme. Of course, this does not provide us any information on what the names will be, nor what their exact abilities will be.
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What will happen now?
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted April 12, 2007 03:59 PM |
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Good guess, alci, although battle mages may have literally 0 mana and no spells
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executor
Famous Hero
Otherworldly Ambassador
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posted April 12, 2007 06:18 PM |
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If they had 0 mana they'd be no magi. They'll have some for sure.
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Understanding is a three-edged sword.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted April 12, 2007 06:27 PM |
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Well, yes, the exact numbers are less relevant than the fact that this will probably give a fairly good guess at the nature of the new units.
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What will happen now?
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emilsn
Legendary Hero
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posted April 12, 2007 06:38 PM |
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Archmage
Attack: 10
Defence: 10
Damage: 7 - 7
Initiative: 10
Speed: 4
HP: 30
Mana: 25
Shots: 4
Battlemage
Attack: 12
Defence: 10
Damage: 10-10
Initiative: 10
Speed: 4
HP: 25
Mana: 10
Shots: 8
Hmmm... I would say this:
Battlemage
Attack: 11
Defence: 10
Damage: 10-10
Initiative: 11
Speed: 4
HP: 25
Mana: 0
Shots: 8
I don't think, even that they are Called "mage", that they should have spells and they still cast a kind of spell out of the wand. If they should have spells, it should be one. A offensive spell. But i want to change initiative a bit, they need a bit more, so i gave it +1 and -1 in the att. you made Alci.
____________
Don't walk behind me; I may not
lead. Don't walk in front of me;
I may not follow. Just walk
beside me and be my friend.
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radar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Castle/Haven player
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posted April 12, 2007 06:46 PM |
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Haven:
1. Peasant  Landowner; 2 gold per each.
2. Archer Something which shots twice.
3. Footman I hope Crusader, attacks twice an armoured.
4. Griffin Royal Griffin? No idea what can be instead of Battle Dive.
5. Priest Hmm... Battle Priest?  Without spells, but high combat skills. Exacly like Battlemage.
6. Cavalier What the hell can be here 
7. Angel Seraph. Raises morale.
Inferno:
1. Imp
2. Horned Demon *_/* Something tough.
3. Hell Hound snow. It is really hard.
4. Succubus Succubus-something, Ignite instead of ranged retaliation.
5. Nightmare Blablablabla. Maybe jousting bonus.
6. Pit fiend Pit... pit... pit  Cleansing, Phantom forces
7. Hell Baron. No enemy retaliation.
More later... I'm overworked
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted April 12, 2007 06:55 PM |
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Quote:
Well, yes, the exact numbers are less relevant than the fact that this will probably give a fairly good guess at the nature of the new units.
exactly, that was my point in the first post
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emilsn
Legendary Hero
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posted April 12, 2007 10:49 PM |
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Quote:
4. Griffin Royal Griffin? No idea what can be instead of Battle Dive.
I got a an Idea that needs to be worked on for Griffin. Yes lets call it Royal griffin! It gets nerfed in Att But boostes in HP, Def and a bit in speed.
The speciel thing about Royal griffing is, Royal is the keyword. It can transport 1x1 tiled units about 6-8 tiles forward !!  And large creatures 4 tiles. Griffins then moves a bit back in ATB and the carried creature a bit further up on the ATB bar.
Its just an idea, but it could turn out cool. Just see, Minotaur, Golem, Pitlord, zombies, spectres, Hydra and treants get moved all the way to the front!!
____________
Don't walk behind me; I may not
lead. Don't walk in front of me;
I may not follow. Just walk
beside me and be my friend.
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Darkeye
Promising
Famous Hero
of the Deep
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posted April 14, 2007 11:47 AM |
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Edited by Darkeye at 11:50, 14 Apr 2007.
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What if the new upgrades would belong to a new alternative Town, looking the same (possibly with different colors, ambience, music etc) and having most of the same buildings, but new alternative upgrade buildings. For example, the Renegades could have their own town with "Battle tower" replacing the "Griffin Tower", producing the Battle Griffin. Altar of Light --> Altar of Blood, producing Fallen Angels and so on. Perhaps the towns could skip the first building and go straight on the upgrades? The Heroes could even have their own race-skill (although that would be too much)
What would the 6 other "Renegade" Factions in that case be?
Inferno: Possibly an Ice variant of the burning hell (as some layers of hell have been described as frosty places).
Sylvan: Renegade elves, but not evil, focusing perhaps even more on the art of war, with War-Unicorns, Gold dragons and so on.
Necropolis: Perhaps a pure spiritual faction, having spectral skeletons, zombs and so on called other things
Dungeon: Another Renegade faction with Red dragons, focusing more on combat than spells?
Fortress: Another clan of dwarves - more norse
Academy: Another faction of mages with other schools of magic (dark and destructive?) and efreets instead of djinns - capable of casting destrutive magic
Just some thoughts on a saturday
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Homer171
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted April 14, 2007 12:30 PM |
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Nah the alternatives should not be 'Renegades'. Some units good and some evil would not look right. The fanctions needs to be the same whit alternative creatures aswell. If Infernal army would have one ice succubus in middle of infernal army that would not fit in there!
Renegades are itself overpowered and they don't belong to Haven fanction either. Alternatives probably changes the creature fighting style from Defender to Attacker etc.
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Darkeye
Promising
Famous Hero
of the Deep
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posted April 14, 2007 02:00 PM |
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I now rather think in terms of new factions, like the Renegades, which only have the upgrades. I see your ice-succubus point there.
Perhaps the upgrades would all be neutral with map-dwellings.
An alternative upgrade building would be interesting, especially if you have the possibility to hire 3 different creatures.
I find it rather strange that Nival do this instead of other neccecsry "upgrades" though
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executor
Famous Hero
Otherworldly Ambassador
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posted April 14, 2007 02:41 PM |
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Quote:
Academy: Another faction of mages with other schools of magic (dark and destructive?) and efreets instead of djinns - capable of casting destrutive magic
Such idea could be interesting, but not with current renegade haven(overpowered).
BTW, your 'evil' magi are very much in my taste  .
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Darkeye
Promising
Famous Hero
of the Deep
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posted April 14, 2007 02:48 PM |
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Yes, could be fun:
Gremlins are pretty evil looking anyway, but what about making them with a white stripe on their head, like in the movie :-)
Gargoyles, could be red-hot lava gargoyles, with fire-shield.
Instead of gold golems (which should cost alot of gold to produce  ) we could have golems with spikes or so, also causing damage to the attacker.
Evil magi - casting nasty dark magic and perhaps freezing ice bolts
Efreet casting random destructive magic spells, with fire-shield.
Rakashas are actually evil spirits in the mythology. It could have been a two-headed variant
Giants are suggested; Yes, lets make them real good fighters.
This could be the start for a mod ..,
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted April 14, 2007 05:23 PM |
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yeah, don't forget the renegade inferno with my fallen devils and uber infernal heroes like santa claus!
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This thread is pages long: 
