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| Thread: The Vampire as creature... old fragment of lost glory, or The Vampires dilemma? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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GenieLord
Honorable
Legendary Hero
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posted April 21, 2007 12:11 AM |
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1. Alc, I agree with every single word. 
2. Vok, I disagree.
My last post was a bit harsh, so I'll try to formulate this gently.
I think that the problem isn't with the hero.
The problem is that the whole Necropolis army is unorganized.
For example, when you play with Sylvan, the Hunters and the Druids shoot, the Treants defend them, the Pixies go ahead and strike quickly, the Green Dragon and the Unicorn are offensive and the Blade Dancer is supportive.
As you can see, every unit of this army has role, and they fit well together.
With Necropolis, there is large shooter (Lich), that almost nothing can defend, the Vampire is usually used as offensive unit, that have to go ahead, and to fight the entire enemy's army, there is very unuseful tank unit (Zombies), etc.
Ofcourse that the army doesn't fit well with the Nacromancer.
The whole army needs to be reorganized.
It's quite weak, as it is now.
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Plexus22
Known Hero
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posted April 21, 2007 05:16 AM |
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Why is everyone claiming that vampire has to dash foreward and attack by itself with no support. The wraith has the same initiative and just one speed point less. If by chance there is a large creature accross from it, it can hit in one turn and if not than its not far behind the vampire. Also the spectre though a little slower all around is a great offensive unit and can add some needed backup support.
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VokialBG
Honorable
Legendary Hero
First in line
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posted April 21, 2007 07:26 AM |
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Edited by VokialBG at 07:37, 21 Apr 2007.
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Quote:
With Necropolis, there is large shooter (Lich), that almost nothing can defend, the Vampire is usually used as offensive unit, that have to go ahead, and to fight the entire enemy's army, there is very unuseful tank unit (Zombies), etc.
Ofcourse that the army doesn't fit well with the Nacromancer.
Actually your post just proof my previos post, GL...
The problem in your opinions are, that your are not competent here, you can be good Sylvan player but you CAN NOT PLAY good whit Necropolis, as I was talking in my previos post:
Necro is the most complicated town to play, especially if you try to play with tactics for other race 
There is tactics for Necropolis, but you must get the combinations there
is not like Sylvan (defence) or Haven(attack).
Necropolis are not weak GL, just you are weak Necropolis player (this do not mean, that you are weak player, you can be weak just with Necropolis )
So here is another problem:
The player do not play with Necropolis often, so they can't it's easy to "switch over" the other towns but start with Academy or Sylvan and to continue with Necropolis with tactics for Sylvan...
...
 
And other one:
GL, if you can beat the AI's this is other question, to beat AI is something "relative", You can even beat Haven with Inferno of Necropolis with Sylvan --->>> funny combat!
Also:
You really can read and use numbers, GL?
Can you beat this army in Week 1 Day 5 Month 2:
With any of your Sylvan tactics? If you can - I'm killed by lightning!...
...twice...
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Unhackable
Bad-mannered
Known Hero
Banned
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posted April 21, 2007 07:34 AM |
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Try to get Cold Steel, Chilling Bones and Herald Of Death. They are very usefull together, and if you get Plauge Tent... valhalla!
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sdfx
Famous Hero
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posted April 21, 2007 10:39 AM |
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Yes, necro is probably the hardest castle to play because now each necromancer has his/her dark energy limit. This means that it's HIGHLY recommended to use multiple necromancers so that EACH of them fights and raises troops via necromancy. It will result in making a lot(hopefully.. ) of magic oriented necromancers with dark and summoning(elementals and phoenix are needed for MotN - either they suffer or the staks that they attack) magic so that they can creep with ghosts/minimal army only.
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radar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Castle/Haven player
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posted April 21, 2007 10:44 AM |
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Quote:
Try to get Cold Steel, Chilling Bones and Herald Of Death. They are very usefull together
just tell me how conection you se here and who takes leadership with necro hero 
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sdfx
Famous Hero
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posted April 21, 2007 11:02 AM |
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It turned out that I missed the "all your heroes SHARE a Dark Energy pool" part. But still, magic oriented necromancer is the way to go.
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feluniozbunio
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted April 21, 2007 12:24 PM |
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Quote:
With any of your Sylvan tactics? If you can - I'm killed by lightning!...
Im not a sylvan player but from dungeon point of view i can do it with my eyes closed Just set me a meteor shower for sure it will hit something
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TowerLord
Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
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posted April 21, 2007 12:32 PM |
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Necro is a very easy to creep with town, especially now with MotN, but very weak if the game takes long... because the hero specialises in Spell Power, but doesn't have any Destructive Magic Booster like Dungeon or powerfull mini-artis and MotW like Academy . So now Necro has to rely on rushes, and Necro rushes are really powerfull nowadays, infinite mana, very strong Phoenix(stronger than Academy's Phoenix) and free troops from Necromancy. On long term Necro becomes weaker and weaker, but building many towns and transforming troops into undead might help.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted April 21, 2007 12:37 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
With any of your Sylvan tactics? If you can - I'm killed by lightning!...
I not a sylvan player but from dungeon point of view i can do it with my eyes closed Just set me a meteor shower for sure it will hit something
same here. I've fought much bigger armies, and that one would fall to my two meteor showers, duh. I'd probably win with a single hydras stack
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sdfx
Famous Hero
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posted April 21, 2007 02:02 PM |
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IMO, the creatures that should be raised are vampires(no retal + self-healing) and ghosts/spectres(mana drain+50% miss). Why? Because they are the best choice when it comes to necropolis' overall durability. So, a big stack of spectres(on "B2" position) can shield vampire lords(on "A1" position) from 2x2 creatures. Even raising regular skeletons may be really good because they are very cheap(dark energy wise), can be shielded and can shot.
Overall durability is also greatly increased by dark spells like mass slow, mass suffering and many other. It's very important because, as TowerLord said, necromancer's summons are really powerful and they can do a lot while a necromancer is trying pupppeting and frenzing - generally: the necro's army main task is to survive long enough.
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VokialBG
Honorable
Legendary Hero
First in line
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posted April 21, 2007 02:44 PM |
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Edited by VokialBG at 14:47, 21 Apr 2007.
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Actually, Vok, I'm a GREAT Necropolis player.
I know how to play with it. I have good tactics and knowledge of the army.
However, my opinion is that the Necropolis army isn't well organized.
That doesn't make me into a bad player.
And how on the world "great necropolis player" can't place his creatures???
Yeah maybe you can play in the campaign, but nothing more GL.
If you was Necropopis player, how can you think that they are weak... and your post here... with your tactics??? Yeah definitely "the best" player 
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radar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Castle/Haven player
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posted April 21, 2007 02:46 PM |
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Oh guys, how will you prove it yourselves? Play toghether and you will see!
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GenieLord
Honorable
Legendary Hero
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posted April 21, 2007 03:30 PM |
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This conversation is getting very childish.
I thought it supposed to be a conversation about the Vampire, or about the Necropolis army.
I haven't thought it will become into a convarsation about my playing skills.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted April 21, 2007 05:30 PM |
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If nebiros was a necromancer, it would be a smart move to start with him: that way, you'd always shield the liches with anything you want with. 
Vokial, GL.. quit it, guys :-X
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feluniozbunio
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted April 21, 2007 06:50 PM |
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Quote:
quote:
quote:With any of your Sylvan tactics? If you can - I'm killed by lightning!...
I not a sylvan player but from dungeon point of view i can do it with my eyes closed Just set me a meteor shower for sure it will hit something
same here. I've fought much bigger armies, and that one would fall to my two meteor showers, duh. I'd probably win with a single hydras stack
Gone with the wind... gone with the meteor shower
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Final_Boss
Adventuring Hero
The Necropope
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posted April 22, 2007 09:58 PM |
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Ah, a necro thread! I want to share my opinions of experienced necromancer:
Necropolis is not weak; it is just that necro creatures lack an obvious role, so it is hard to make them work together and, even if you manage it, necro creatures still lack teamwork.
Necromancers are not bad heroes at all; they are just dull and boring. If you go for Summoning, Defence, and Mark of the Necromancer, you will have an especially tough army who outnumbers the enemy and can be raised easily to full strength almost forever = attrition victory. The only way to stop a necromancer is killing his creatures faster than he can raise them, something very hard if he has sorcery and some nasty high lvl spells.
Oh and, one of the worst things you can face is a necromancer with destructive magic/spells, defence, and MotN, as thanks to his larger army (specifically a mastodontic stack of spectres) he can destroy your whole force with a never-ending wave of destructive spells while his creatures just hold the ground like an iron turtle. It is very uncommon because to pick destructive as a necromancer is very risky, but it works very well against almost everything (not recommended against academy lol).
About vampires: yeah, they are weak, especially basic vampires as they cannot fly nor deal decent damage, but vampire lords are a pain in the arse for the enemy because are hard to kill thanks to their mobility, small size and special abilities. I mean: maybe vampire lords deal mediocre damage, but you need your better stack or focused fire to really kill enough of them. They are sub par, however.
IMO archlichs are the best necro unit. Surely some people will find interesting that archlichs deal more damage in close combat than inquisitors… even their large size has a good side: thanks to it they reach 1 more tile with their full ranged attack, like titans (this is very important, because most players don’t know that and so get ****ed by the full power of archlichs’ death cloud). On top of that, they are tough despite their low HP; Suffering is very useful in big battles and Decay is awesome when you cast it on fast creatures (the faster they are, the faster they die!).
Bye!
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Istari
Known Hero
Truth Teller, ToH
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posted April 23, 2007 04:31 PM |
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Edited by Istari at 19:16, 23 Apr 2007.
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Vampires and the Necropolis is a largely misunderstood. The army isn't mismatched and the hero isn't weak. The army fits well and so do the heroes. Vampires are way above average when it comes to creeping. And in the final battle they should not be rushing. The problem is when players try to apply a might strategy to a magic faction. Magic strategists know to let your magic do the killing and hold your troops back and keep them alive as long as possible. Necro is perfect for that. Lots of Skeleton Archers and Archlich's deal decent ranged damage. Raising lots of vamps. + lifedrain keeps them alive (or undead rather). Mass slow means your hero gets his turns relatively faster than the enemy's creatures. I'm guessing even the magic strategists who struggle with the necro just aren't familiar with how to effective use Summoning and Dark magic. It's not as simple as spamming destructive spells. Your primary fighting units are the Pheonix and Puppet Mastered enemy troops. It's tricky because you have to plan you spells around the ATB bar. Don't puppet master right before the enemy hero who may have cleansing goes. Also protect your pheonix from Wraith's and Pit Lords. I'm just starting to play in ToH, but I haven't seen the necropolis have any problems winning. So, if it wins well in actual games it must not be weak... probably just misunderstood.
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sdfx
Famous Hero
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posted April 24, 2007 10:02 AM |
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That's why a necromancer should spend his dark energy to raise major annoyance stacks like ghosts, vampires and skeletons. Liches are spellcasers, their spellpower is log like, they are 2x2, they cost a lot dark energy and probably they will just die. Maybe they will shoot once if they are lucky but generally they are best as decay casters.
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Moonlith
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
If all else fails, use Fiyah!
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posted April 24, 2007 06:08 PM |
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Edited by Moonlith at 18:20, 24 Apr 2007.
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I wonder if empowering the Vampires in a future patch would actually make Necropolis more balanced or overpowered compared to other factions.
Clearly increasing damage AND increasing their Life Drain ability would make them overpowered (not to mention most likely the main target to focus on).
I wonder if damage was decreased by a point or two while Life Drain effect was doubled (=H3) would make them more satisfying... Either Attack or Damage anyway, Life Drain is totally dependant on the amount of damage inflicted.
For the record, I agree with Istari.
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