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| Thread: Where's the Fantasy Gone? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · «PREV |
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Watchman
Adventuring Hero
Defender of small Furry things
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posted April 30, 2001 07:10 AM |
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Up for stories!!!
I agree. I personally prefer the maps that have good, strong storylines as their base. It's the story that makes the maps different. Otherwise, as was mentioned, it's just the counting of numbers and fighting on the same soils...
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"If we are but travellers on the road of life, then I am pleased to have met you here, friend!"
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Shae_Trielle
Honorable
Famous Hero
of Heroes
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posted May 01, 2001 03:20 PM |
bonus applied. |
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One Problem
After having been emailed a map from a friend of mine who told me that she never had the patience to really finish it, I tried to pick up the pieces where she had left off. My first thought was to give meaning to the reason behind the map, but with random variables I found this almost impossible. How can you thread a story with war against the elves to the south if the southern player chooses a Necro castle?
This problem I pondered for a few minutes and I came up with the easiest solution I could, although this solution of mine fell far short of being personally satisfactory. What Ruala had emailed to me as a 5 player map with random towns I decided to increase to 8. Therefore I was able to include all of the races and allow players freedom of choice. This also allowed me to create little intermittent sub-stories for each castle type, and mess around with certain things like a reason for a sulphur mine being guarded. These little story events that I scattered strategically throughout the map made everything seem more coherent and for each race, I spliced in a few early story screens (three or four to each castle over a two or three week period). I found that I didn't want to overburden anyone with unnecessary direction, yet all stories hint at a purpose. I had to try and infer that the nearest neighbour to a certain player (in this case, each player had two close neighbours) was to be one of the first obstacles to overcome. Because the map was constructed in a balanced manner, I felt fairly certain that these players would interact first with their two closest neighbours and thats where most of the initial battles would take place.
It was very much impossible for me to predict what would happen with a player after more than two weeks, so my threads stopped there, but I was hoping that by then, I had already injected enough of a story into the map to make it enjoyable. I used a form of logic that Dr. Dre uses in his songs. He once said that people will only listen to the first fifteen seconds of a song to decide whether they like it or not. If you don't hook them in the first fifteen seconds, the rest of your song, no matter how good, will be a flop.
I think the same principle applies here, don't you think?
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MatronBaenre
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Ichon
Responsible
Famous Hero
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posted June 22, 2001 06:35 PM |
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Stories
I enjoy a good story, in fact I have read just about every single fantasy scifi or history book when I walk into books stores these days, yet I get extremely bored with stories in games. Maybe I just haven't found a good story within any type of multiplayer game(singleplayer games much better for stories- the essence of story is structure afterall). The posible exceptions to stories are historically based games for multiplayer, since everyone knwos the conlcusion- then you are chaning history to make a losing side win, or make the winning side win in a shorter time or with less losses etc.
I think the best way to make a map interesting for H3 is to include events and make them coherent so that no matter what your opponent does, you will still be within your own little quest aside from the broader war.
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Coldfyrius
Promising
Famous Hero
Vice-God for Marketing
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posted June 27, 2001 10:54 PM |
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I agree that multiplayer is too speed-obsessed. But I think this is built into the scoring system, which only counts speed and a few other things. If you want a good game, try single player. One of my favorite maps is The Bubbling Champaign Bottle, from Dungeon Keeper's Map Collection Part 2. It could easily take a game year to complete, it's well-designed, and it's an XL picture map. Get it. It will renew your interest in the game.
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"All the punks are gonna scream, 'yippee!'/ 'Cuz it's the thing that only eats hippies."
-The Dead Milkmen
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Coldfyrius
Promising
Famous Hero
Vice-God for Marketing
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posted July 01, 2001 04:25 AM |
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Why does nobody ever post here? This is a very good thread that does not deserve to die. And why do my posts always kill threads? I'm not the heaviest poster here, but there are a HUGE number of posts on which I am the last poster? Am I just imagining things?
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"All the punks are gonna scream, 'yippee!'/ 'Cuz it's the thing that only eats hippies."
-The Dead Milkmen
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Shae_Trielle
Honorable
Famous Hero
of Heroes
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posted July 01, 2001 11:38 AM |
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Single player stories
It is far better to feed a single person a series of events in a game and chain them all together so that a story thread can be achieved, the plot is rather linear and you can 'direct' the player to a greater degree, but when multiple players are involved, well then, your single story suddenly becomes a Fighting Fantasy book and you're forced to choose between directing players and simply using aesthetic embellishments to enhance the game.
I suppose people don't play multiplayer games for the sake of a good story, they play them for the interaction with real people, regardless of map or plot. So, yes, I suppose if I want a decent story I should play a game by myself, but I tried that and the fun lasted about ten seconds before I wondered why I couldn't have the best of both worlds.
But this thread has shown me that the answer to this problem is not as easy as it seems.
Shae
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pluvious
Promising
Adventuring Hero
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posted July 04, 2001 11:12 AM |
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I have recently closed the Champions of Tymeria tournament, which means that I no longer have need of the specialized "story-driven/challenge orientated" maps made specifically for the tournament. So I will post a link here for those who want to give them a lookover.
I think you will find them different from anything else you have seen. They are designed for multiplay but for a different kind of game. A fun game with many goals and options. Maybe they can give some other people ideas.
Anyone who wants to play them or use them for another tournament is of course welcome. Personally, I really wish people would play heroes more for enjoyment then just points. You miss out on a lot in life if you don't stop and look around every once in awhile.
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...Pluvious...
-The Storm Before the Calm-
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ugene_de_mue...
Adventuring Hero
Romanii ca brazii
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posted July 04, 2001 04:07 PM |
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Hmmm...I think I don't quite understand that need for a 'good story', Shae...It is a game after all, and a good one and I think that map stories are only limitations- of course I am talking about the multiplayer game- to the player's own imagination.
And, besides, a story might actually ruin the game if the story sucks...and really, go into a bookstore and check the titles and you will see that 99% is rubbish...It is really hard to write a good hf story...
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Give me one year and I'll teach your horse to speak
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Ichon
Responsible
Famous Hero
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posted July 06, 2001 04:32 AM |
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Middle Earth
There are some good story based maps out there that are still fun to play multi, but they are very hard to accomplish and retain fun, usually you have to have 8 players at least 4 of which are computer controlled, that way you get events for the computer that ensure you have a challenge and also control the pace of the story with gates and border guards which you can plan to see it takes at least 9 days going straight there with logistics hero etc to reach this tent, and average played first time on map probably takes 20 days at least so make different chapters in the book that way.
I have found three very good story based multi maps, only three in almost 4 years though. Middle Earth map is very nice, also Silverthorn map based on Arutha leading armies of Krondor vs Ramparts and Strongholds representing Dark Elves and Serpents. Last map was actually the best, a humorous one based on Lawrence Watt-Evans books- was the Great War, and it was northern sorcers vs southern wizards with demons and everything thrown in(AB map). Whoever made it did excellent job! Hilarious events, but also very intense game due to properly times events for the computer enemies.
I also liked a few other story type maps from H2 which were translated to H3- Stranded is one, then also Pyramid, and finally Unicorns! Fun games and good for multi except Pyramids.
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ozzyosbourne
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
Riddler of the Sky
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posted July 07, 2001 07:55 PM |
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HEY HEY HEY!! Never use the word "Arch Devils" to explain a killing purpose.. what are you?! MAD or something?!
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Life is like a carousel. Spinning fast you got to ride them well. The only time you speak is in your dreams.
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biggus
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 16, 2001 03:13 AM |
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This is the second time I come here and my first post.
I really have to agree that it is a must for a good map to have a catching storyline. About a year ago I tried multiplayer online and must admit that it was a sad experience. I don't like to play a map 100 times and know where all the artifacts are placed, rush to get them and crush the opponent fast.
Today, the only multiplayer i play is at home with a friend on a map which has a good story in it.
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contemplate the virtue of patience.
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Death
Known Hero
LEGEND OF HELL
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posted July 21, 2001 01:46 PM |
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hey
Quote:
HEY HEY HEY!! Never use the word "Arch Devils" to explain a killing purpose.. what are you?! MAD or something?!
Why not????????????????????????????????????????
I dont understand!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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RUN IF YOU CAN!!!
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Harukaba
Tavern Dweller
Wandering Fighter of Justice
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posted August 02, 2001 09:28 PM |
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Sometimes, you need to make the story yourself
Quote:
But this thread has shown me that the answer to this problem is not as easy as it seems.
This reminds me of what is happening with the Diablo 2 game. Yes, they are related so please don't think I'm spamming.
In Diablo 2, you play a character for hours and hours and you identify with them closely. You direct their development and what they do. The world of Diablo also has a large background and history so even though there is no development in the game of YOUR character (you learn a bit about the town inhabitents though), there is enough for you to create a history of your own character.
Go back to HoMM3 and I see the same thing. While there isn't a lot about the heroes in the game unless the map sets it up or the hero is a unique one such as Craig Hack, there is a lot of story so that you can do the same thing yourself. Even if the map doesn't have information about your heroes, you can make one up yourself. Especially in a long campaign because you can hire some of the same heroes over and over again.
I know this isn't as satisfying as the map having a good story but I enjoy doing it and it enriches the maps I play.
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If the maneuverings of dark
powers can't be exposed and
defeated by the pure of heart,
then there's no point in
anything. I can't believe that.
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Oldtimer
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Please leave a message after..
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posted August 06, 2001 01:44 AM |
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The responsibility lies with the map authors. There are some good story maps around but it takes alot of time and effort to design one. Many that are mentioned are based on fantasy novels so alot of the groundwork is already in place. But the problem does lie in making it a multi-player friendly map.
In this multi-player story map each race needs it own objectives. Take over the world, destroy another race, etc. and they should also have unique challanges designed specifically to each race.
So we must challange the Mapmakers!
Make us a good story map!
Now!
...We're a little to lazy to do it ourselves...
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<PLEASE DO NOT WAKE THE OLD MAN!>
"Zzzz...Zzzz...Zzzz..."
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Hexa
Responsible
Legendary Hero
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posted October 01, 2003 06:42 PM |
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Moving to MapHaven Guild!@
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