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| Thread: Rant on the Degeneration of HC (feel free to skip this and go play the WAG) |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · NEXT» |
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Coldfyrius
Promising
Famous Hero
Vice-God for Marketing
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posted October 21, 2001 07:05 PM |
bonus applied. |
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Rant on the Degeneration of HC (feel free to skip this and go play the WAG)
You know HC is at a pathetic state when of the ten threads with the most posts, only 3 are related to HOMM.
You know HC is at a pathetic state when the "Only Naked girls read this" has more posts than "Dungeon Strategy," "Numerical Creature Ratings," or any other thread in the Tavern.
You know that HC is at a pathetic state when the thread with the most posts, "Kuma's Tavern" is specifically devoted to not being about HOMM.
Why is HC degenerating? I think it is because interest in HOMM itself is degenerating.
Do people here even play HOMM any more? People are much more willing to post worthless crap on the WAG than they are to say something about strategy. Have we really exhausted every possible topic of discusion involving HOMM, arguably the best RTS series ever? Has "the best game of 1999" been drained of every piece of commentary that could be made about it?
Of course not. What has happened is that people are too lazy to even enjoy something. People want the same 1v1v1v1 map done in 50 slightly different versions, instead of wanting 50 uniquely designed maps. Adventure maps are no beter off, most of them boiling down to the same old plowing though an opponent with 5 Titans, then one with 10, then one with 15, etc. People don't want maps that change things around a little, by warping some strategic aspect of the game or another in such a way as to make conventional strategies worthless.
People aren't interested in HOMM any more. They don't want to think about new things in the game. Do you know how few maps actually use Modhomm, despite the huge advantages it provides to mapmakers? It's a utility that allows you to easily change some of the most basic stats in the game, like HP and damage of creatures or the prices of buildings. A half-hour of work on one of the data files can gve you a map where the strategies a player uses are totally different from the regular game.
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"All the punks are gonna scream, 'yippee!'/ 'Cuz it's the thing that only eats hippies."
-The Dead Milkmen
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Oldtimer
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Please leave a message after..
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posted October 21, 2001 07:37 PM |
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Say what you want, but people are just bursting in anticipation for H4. I think that we are in a holding pattern because the freakin game was supposted to be out by now. So let us have our little diversions while we wait with baited breath.
Now my rant...
I have recently downloaded some of the maps that people are playing on TOH and other touneys and I must say that they are pure crap! They dismiss entirely half of the strategy of the game--RESOURCE MANAGEMENT--on every map that I have seen so far it is possible to build your entire town's creatures without ever having to worry about how you are going to pay for them. Stategy involves tough choices, Do I build my capitol or some creature houses to search for scarice resorces. But no, the maps that people are playing on are riddled with resources, some you can barely take a step without picking up something. This is silly, and I wonder if the top players are really that good or do they just memorize one map to the point of rote efficiency, that they can beat someone who hasn't spent the hours disecting the map. The only way to prove that you are better than anyone at this game is to play people on maps that both have never seen, & that doesn't just give you everything you need right off the bat.
end of rant.
That felt good.
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<PLEASE DO NOT WAKE THE OLD MAN!>
"Zzzz...Zzzz...Zzzz..."
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Preserver
Promising
Famous Hero
Elemental Druid
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posted October 21, 2001 07:45 PM |
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Huh?!
...glad I'm not the only one disagreeing with you. HC is a great stage where you can discuss strategy, talk and guess about HoMM4, do RPG and talk about non-HoMM things with other HoMM fans. Yes, many people are doing all these, maybe you find your favourite topics in the less popular end, but fortunately "the less popular end" on HC doesn't mean not popular. We got members relying on ToH and strategy, the analysis of HoMM4 and just conversional people who are also needed. The "Numerical Creature Ratings" thread is pretty good roling compared to what it would have been on other boards. All the members (the ones I know) are nice and friendly, and the, by you called, "interesting" threads are for sure read by more people than there's replies.
Also, if people on this board was doing nothing but playing HoMM, talking about HoMM, playing HoMM, talking about HoMM,..etc. it would be very unnatural. Have you heard about something called variation? Atleast that's what I'm doing. You know, posting something about a HoMM3 town in the library, then posting a word in the WAG, then making a new thread on the Altar about H4 heroes (if that's not being interested in HoMM, I don't know what you would call it), going back to the Tavern and read, maybe reply on a non or half HoMM topic... I really can't imagine how your "dream HC" would look like... And that "Degeneration of HC" makes no sence to me...
I'll go play the WAG now...
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DonGio
Promising
Famous Hero
of Clear Water Mountain Clan
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posted October 21, 2001 08:15 PM |
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I agree with Preserver (see you've got yourself a red star! Congrats!). I've viewed many of the HOMM-related posts, and many of them are very good, and so I don't always feel like I've got something worthwhile to contribute. Besides, another function of HC, I think, is a place where you know you'll meet other people interested in some of the same things as you, or at least with opinions about the things that interest you. It would be stupid and unnatural if we were only allowed to post threads about HOMM and it's different aspects. We are, after all, humans (well, most of us, anyway ), and when gathered, we will eventually follow our instincts, and socialize (as a part of our reproduction "proramme"). So ease up and enjoy the HC. I think it's great!
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There are 10 types of people: Those who read binary, and those who don't.
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rogue
Promising
Famous Hero
Prosecutors Will Be Shoplifted
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posted October 21, 2001 10:53 PM |
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I wouldn't say interest in HoMM has declined. I still play the game and still write articles for my website. (see my sig) This is the dull period, however. Everyone's waiting for the new game and until it's out, there's going to be a lull in things to talk about.
However, other forums about Heroes still do talk about Heroes, so I'm not sure what happened here.
There was a strategy forum here, but people weren't that interested in it for some reason.
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Answers to Everything
http://help.paulinetown.com
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UnkaHaakon
Responsible
Famous Hero
happily tilting at windmills
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posted October 21, 2001 11:16 PM |
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Moderator's hat off for this post: Just to add my (probably over-priced) two cent's worth here.
"If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem."
If you think the community is in such a terrible state, what are you doing about it, besides saying it's in a terrible state?
Now, my take on HC as it is now: There's been some truly great debates going on in the Altar lately about Heroes 4. No "this sucks" or "your idea is stupid" but real give and take, with positions being supported. Before you decry the state of HC, I'd suggest checking them out. As far as the Tavern goes, it's always been a bit of a free-for-all zone. You takes what you gets there. ( aside to Val: Hey, whatever happened to the 'Wasteland' forum idea for things like WAG? Just curious. ) Anybody remember the big to-do about wanting roleplaying this summer? After 'Mother Tathlorn' petered out, I'm glad to see the idea revived and going strong. As for HOMM strategy, there's not much new to say there, so that forum languishes for now. TOH is for TOH, with the rollicking exception of Kuma's Tavern.
When H4 comes out, things will start really jumping around here again on HOMM topics (I'm glad I'll have the archives cleaned by then ..hopefully LOL ). In the meantime ... "Patience, Grasshopper..."
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Some people say the glass is half full..Some people say it's half empty... I say "What're you asking me to drink?"
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Mystery
Famous Hero
Hatebreeder
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posted October 21, 2001 11:34 PM |
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Wag Rules
once, long ago, long long long long ago, even at the old HC there were long and furious discussions about H4, just look at the Egypt, or Ice Town, or Creature Experience, there was much to guess, to wish, to discuss, now all is known about H4, Strategies can be found at h3trio, so HC became boring indeed, but when H4 will be released, HC will wake up again...
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D3@th t0 Fals3 m3Tal!
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Shae_Trielle
Honorable
Famous Hero
of Heroes
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posted October 21, 2001 11:40 PM |
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I think that way too many people don't play Heroes on this forum anymore and they've become too comfortable being able to post here about stuff that isn't really related at all. The tavern has become the focal point in the lead up to HoMM4 and people are posting about stuff that relates more to their everyday life and not necessarily about HoMM.
Combine the forums together, and you've bot a pretty expansive database about the game. It's pretty hard to come up with discussions about new things that haven't been said already. We've all heard about the sorry state of ToH maps too, one thing we all might like to do is go and bring the ToH maps thread back to the top again. It's funny that you guys go and explore something new about HoMM (re: download ToH maps) and your opinion about them only surfaces in a thread which has nothing to do about them at all.
Nowadays, I only start threads in the Library (where true HoMM discussion REALLY goes on, not in the Tavern) and in ToH, where opinions about the tournament take place.
I post a lot in the tavern, because I can (and like) to make shorter, sillier posts and avoid being so straight about the game. It also gives me an insight into newcomers who use the Tavern a LOT and more often I can know more about them before they even post a topic about HoMM by reading about their tavern escapades. LOL, nothing like a jug of ale to make somebody's tongue loose...
HoMM has not been exhausted, it's just that posters aren't thinking about the game as a whole. I have a few ideas about starting new threads, but I think some people are afraid that their new thread ideas is either going to be a flop or people are going to laugh at them. And on the surface of things, it DOES feel like the thread you're going to create has been done before.
*smile*
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Valeriy
Mage of the Land
Naughty, Naughty Valeriy
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posted October 22, 2001 12:29 AM |
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Underneath everything we say it's great to see that we care about our community. Things like WAG may take up a lot of space on front pages, but give them a week and they are deleted from the archives, people don't even retain post counts for posting there. The idea of a wasteland is no longer needed in my opinion. Wasteland would separate people. The ones who post at wasteland won't care that much about the quality of what they post, and that will only promote bad quality, other forums will suffer. So Tavern seems to remain a perfect place for the off-topic discussion, while there's an invisible requirement to make them interesting. I think this is a great situation. With the new moderators trio going through the forums as we speak and moving threads where they belong it will be easier to find the kind of discussion you like.
As for non-HOMM discussions, I look at them as people getting to know each other. There is the game which we know things about, and there are players, the community that remains a mystery to be uncovered.
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You can wait for others to do it, but if they don't know how, you'll wait forever.
Be an example of what you want to see on HC and in the world.
http://www.heroesofmightandmagic.com
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RMS
Responsible
Legendary Hero
-ing yummy foods
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posted October 22, 2001 12:34 AM |
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::and there is applause::
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This space for rent.
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Milena
Responsible
Supreme Hero
in supreme disgrace
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posted October 22, 2001 12:59 AM |
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*applauses in the hall*
Quote:
Now, my take on HC as it is now: There's been some truly great debates going on in the Altar lately about Heroes 4. No "this sucks" or "your idea is stupid" but real give and take, with positions being supported. Before you decry the state of HC, I'd suggest checking them out. As far as the Tavern goes, it's always been a bit of a free-for-all zone. You takes what you gets there. When H4 comes out, things will start really jumping around here again on HOMM topics (I'm glad I'll have the archives cleaned by then ..hopefully LOL ). In the meantime ... "Patience, Grasshopper..."
I absolutely and completely agree here. Unka, bravo. This is exactly what I'd say, thank you for finding the words for me.
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 Milena
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Frenzie
Adventuring Hero
off with the faeries
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posted October 22, 2001 02:17 AM |
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Oldtimer :
I rarely play the same map twice for that very reason, I think it takes away from the challenge! If you know the map and know where the resources are and the enemies castles, and free castles then it takes away from the experience.
If I was to play in any sort of competition I'd be wanting to play maps that none of the opponents have seen, not ones that everyone has dissected and have prebuilt strategies.
Same reason that you arent given the exam paper before an exam .
MHO
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Industrial design knows of no more useful object than the milk crate
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SirDunco
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted October 22, 2001 03:48 AM |
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Let the elders say something
Now I have been on here for a very long time. i have been here from the very FIRST HC. I've been one of the first people to register and I must agree with Coldifus on one thing that the quality of the threads have come down. No offese to some of u but some of this is just crap. When i first came here the biggest forum was The Altar of Wishes. This was the second smallest one. Now people posted many ideas there. If u look back at the pages 32 and so u can see that ALL of them are related to Homm4. Now from what I know ,but don't take this in a wrong way, ever since Incubus became one of the top people the HC has begun to transform. now Inky posted many ideas, but I know that in the starting Tavern there were 90% of the things related to Homm. Now its about 25%. Now Inky I know u may bee reading this and don't take any offese, but since and how u became the poster with the largest amount of posts and HOW u got to the top(by making 100's of posts a day) people started to do this also. But not like u by posting Homm related ideas, but by many unHomm realted things. So there I said it. That was the turning point. On comes a wave of new people and down comes the old Rule,(top posters) ME and Mystery. Now people came with a new wave and came to power like u. Many post came to number one spot over threads like Artifacts or Crusader or Archangel. I'm not saying I don't like HC, but Coldifus does make a point. I know this may not make sence to the newbies(at least compared to me), but sometimes take a look at the end pages and see what's there. Some of those threads should be broight up to the top, so newbies can read them. So hey the qualty did go down.
Wow there I say it. That's all.
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Lith-Maethor
Honorable
Legendary Hero
paid in Coin and Cleavage
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posted October 22, 2001 04:12 AM |
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I'm not as old as SirDunco...
...but I have been around for quite some time...
the reason for what is happening is that HoMM4 is about to come out... only a few months to go... nothing can be changed... most topics have been discussed and if something new about HoMM4 is known, people don't want to spoil the game... (I'm not one of them) some people just don't like knowing too much about HoMM4) ...when the new game is out, HC is going to blossom once again... till then we can spend some time re-vamping old threads, discussing new ideas or knowing each other... HoMM is only one of the reasons people come here for... I enjoy the RP threads as much as the HoMM based ones...
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You are suffering from delusions of adequacy.
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Frenzie
Adventuring Hero
off with the faeries
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posted October 22, 2001 04:42 AM |
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Happens everywhere
This sort of things happens on every board, as people get to know each other discussing on topic, you get curious and would like to discuss offtopic as well.
I guess thats why the tavern is here! To have a place to do that, doesnt mean that people arent still playing the game and discussing strategy as well . . . guess thats why they call these communities and not a library!
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Industrial design knows of no more useful object than the milk crate
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zsa
Famous Hero
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posted October 22, 2001 07:04 AM |
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Just my 10 cents
Quote:
I have recently downloaded some of the maps that people are playing on TOH and other touneys and I must say that they are pure crap! They dismiss entirely half of the strategy of the game--RESOURCE MANAGEMENT--on every map that I have seen so far it is possible to build your entire town's creatures without ever having to worry about how you are going to pay for them.
Exactly, same thing I've been thinking !! I mean there are a lot of discussions where I see something like this:
"Castle is great because u can get angels the first week bla bla bla".
That sometimes make me laugh.
Quote:
I rarely play the same map twice for that very reason, I think it takes away from the challenge! If you know the map and know where the resources are and the enemies castles, and free castles then it takes away from the experience.
Another good poin Frenzie, if u play a map more than 2-3
times it becomes boooorrring! And the strategy diminishes.
Quote:
This is silly, and I wonder if the top players are really that good or do they just memorize one map to the point of rote efficiency, that they can beat someone who hasn't spent the hours disecting the map. The only way to prove that you are better than anyone at this game is to play people on maps that both have never seen, & that doesn't just give you everything you need right off the bat.
[\quote]
Another good one. I sometimes wonder that myself. I mean when u play desert war 40-50-60 times!! or if u see a player with 2 games on boomerang and BfH, and 53 games on showdown!! u begin to wonder.
The best players are the ones who can play on any "good made" given maps,not only on ToH maps.
Sometimes when I go to the zone I see some titles to the game rooms that are like this : "Desert War only" or "Showdown TOH" or stuff similar to that. I mean is this game revolving itself around 4-5 maps???
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"You sound like zsa who only plays the game on forums" - Russ
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Sha_Men
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jack-Of-No-Trades
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posted October 22, 2001 08:46 AM |
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Good shot Coldfurious...
But not really into the target...
I remember writing "Letter to community" message some time ago when someone wasn't banned yet and what to do with the forum.
I was asking this forum to spread it tentacles.
It happened.
There are great newcomers unfortunately some good posters have left and not yet come back.
Oldtimer, again, said almost what I was going to say. It's HoMMIV that has made this forum like this. I have said about hundred times that we are running in secondary power waiting. Even those that praise still HoMM3 are waiting and aren't sure should they post something about HoMM3 tactics and such.
What comes to myself. I have really shorter time here to spend than before and I'm lazy really to do anything when come here than post something funny or some small comments.
So Wasteland isn't coming? Well...question is do we need it? Maybe "overall quality" of messages has gone down...
Not really I believe. If we will have good conservation about something and we get enough posters there we will get some quality messages too. (No, I'm not meaning "naked girls only thread" LOL)
As I have said already someone Altar of Wishes has come lot better place than while ago. However it was in good shape couple of months ago when I was going there. Between that time it was in bad shape.
Things change and so does HC. I wish it will change to better and when I see the newcomers or the "children" LOL, I come happy. They can keep this alive for a while and when HoMMIV comes out we see maybe "new beginning" here.
Or not.
It's up to us of course do we keep this place alive or not.
(OK, this whole post was repeating something I have said many times before. Had to say something and maybe I was too lazy to say anything else)
Little bit like HC now?
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Catch the vigorous horse of your mind.
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Coldfyrius
Promising
Famous Hero
Vice-God for Marketing
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posted October 22, 2001 10:52 PM |
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OK. I probably don't have as good a feel as most people about much interest there is in HOMM right now. I'm not on ToH (stupid 404s!), so I play maybe one game online a month. And, yeah, there's still some good stuff here.
But still, this place is going downhill. I'm by no means an oldbie, but I have been here since June, and things were much better then. People had long and meaningful discussions about HOMM, with HOMM4 thought to be closer than we know it is now. There was virtually nothing off-topic, compared with about 30% now. This place was simply amazing. But then I go away for a month, and when I return, the degeneration has begun. Some of the best old posters, like hsanders and Melf, are gone completely. The new posters, with a few exceptions, are just not in the same ballpark. And some of the best carry-overs are caught in interpersonal rivalries that eat up a lot of space and kill some of the best discussions. More off-topic stuff is crowding up the Tavern, and the best discussions on the Altar are dying out.
Then there were aq few weeks where relations between Shae et alia and Incubus et alia are in the pits. This sucks them away from good discussions. The Annihilation of the Threads and the Casting Out of the Two killed a large number of discussions, the first by force and the second by intimidation. Things have never really hit the upswing yet.
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"All the punks are gonna scream, 'yippee!'/ 'Cuz it's the thing that only eats hippies."
-The Dead Milkmen
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Mystery
Famous Hero
Hatebreeder
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posted October 22, 2001 11:40 PM |
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People like me and SirDunco can rely on good memories from the glorious discussions about H4, do you remeber that? SirDunco? RaZoR_X ? Sheltem? KuraiZen? Diablo1221? Anfi? Valeriy? At those times the board was glorious indeed! Don't worry, soon H4 is out and we can start wishing about H5 or some kind of expansion.
ARGH just when the new guys came HC became boring!  just kidding, no offense
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D3@th t0 Fals3 m3Tal!
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raZor_X
Promising
Known Hero
The mysterious Warlock
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posted October 23, 2001 12:47 AM |
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Hey...
Mystery... The good ol' times of HC. We were a small and perfect family in harmony. Do you old HC members remember how things were in old HC, no quality and quantity stars, peacefull!!! Since the number of members started to grow up the thing got out of hands a bit, but it is still great. This really is a "stand-by" period till Heroes 4 is out, then we will start again.
I've noticed that some really good posters are inactive now. Sikmar, Watchman, Dark_hunter7, Matthy, they hardly post now anymore. Even Val was an active poster about things concernig heroes!!!
Well I guess that we are getting old and the new generation is taking HC now LOL...
raZor_X
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