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| Thread: The Final Battle |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · NEXT» |
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Istari
Known Hero
Truth Teller, ToH
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posted May 15, 2007 04:19 PM |
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The Final Battle
We have had several strategy posts in this forum talking about creeping, heroes, creatures, building order and skill development. The one post I have not seen much of is attacking strategies in final battle. This topic is too big for one post because it will vary from every faction vs faction matchup. The idea of talking about his came to me after a I made a huge final battle mistake. I was playing battle for honor, me- Necro, he- Sylvan (multiplayer, HOF, 2.1). I was happy with my creeping and skill development. I broke the center first and attacked him in his territory. My hero was 1 level higher than his. My army size was adequate for the fight. Looking at all the stats going into the battle, I should have won after a hard fight. My final battle mistakes: 1) I did not cast summon phoenix with my first spell. 2) I cast puppet master after I already had puppet control of one of his other units (very embarrassing). SO the in fight lessons I learned the hard way are always cast pheonix with your first spell against sylvan (I cast mass confusion to neutralize his two stacks of master hunters... not a bad idea, but the delay to phoenix killed me). Sylvan will probably move their sprites and war dancers forward to attack. I think the necro needs ot make it a troop prioity to focus on the sprites (so they can't dispell slow and confusion) as your spectres and vampire lords are getting to the master hunters and druids as fast as possible. After phoenix is cast if there is a good target to puppet than do it, otherwise mass slow. The game inside the game here is getting your hero to go after his hero before mass slowing so he doesn't immediately counter with a mass haste. If your hero goes before his after you phoenix, you can frenzy, puppet, blind, or phantom force. If he does another mass spell he may pass you in the ATM bar and then you are set to mass slow. Don't raise dead until a troop is either completely dead, or you are confiedent that you can raise more than he can kill per round.
As you can see these are fianl battle strategies for the necro playing against the sylvan. I am curious to see follow-up posts for other factions fighting each other. Who are priority kills. What is your spell order...
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Opinions are immunity to being told you're wrong.
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feluniozbunio
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted May 15, 2007 05:28 PM |
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Watch out for puppet master misdirected my magic mirror
Your opponent gains control of your stack if one gets hit by it.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted May 15, 2007 05:37 PM |
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I wonder what happens if you have magic mirror and the opponent Sandro's cloak at the same time  Would the necro control his unit at a decreased initiative if the puppet master backfired? 
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted May 15, 2007 06:37 PM |
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phoenix in the first turn? Give me a break
if you cast confusion, he has to use his heroturn or to forget about hunters. If you cast phoenix, he can use m.hunters to kill it and additionaly cast mass haste
what is better?
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sphere
Supreme Hero
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posted May 15, 2007 06:39 PM |
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Hey,
- Nice topic, Istari. Well I don't think ther is that much to say about your boo-boo there  just don't do it again, hehe.
- Anyone ever tried teleportation approach ( with A-Treants ) to block and bind ?
@ Elvin : Hehe, yes thats is good question..wicked.
- Guz
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Who is this General Failure, and why is he looking at my disk ?
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Istari
Known Hero
Truth Teller, ToH
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posted May 15, 2007 06:43 PM |
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If the necro hero goes before the sylvan hero... the necro castes mass confusion and the the sylvan dispell/ antimagic on master hunters, druids lightning bolt master hunters still go (your spell gained you nothing). The Master hunters will not kill a phoenix in one round. If the are attacking the phoenix that means they are not attacking anything else (thats good). If you can get to the master hunters before they go twice, you don't need mass confusion, they are nothing if you are standing by them. If you can't then cast mass confuse after the phoenix is around killing people. When the phoenix gets too low you can always raise dead on it.
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Opinions are immunity to being told you're wrong.
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TemjinGold
Known Hero
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posted May 16, 2007 04:23 AM |
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Your spell may not have gained you anything, but it prevents your opponent from gaining anything either. He must spend a turn countering your mass confusion rather than casting something like Mass Righteous Might on that turn instead (which is vastly superior to the phoenix you throw out ocnsidering Mass spells cost half init while the phoenix costs a whole init.) You may have your phoenix but he'll get in 2 spells total before you get in another.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted May 16, 2007 08:24 AM |
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Quote:
Your spell may not have gained you anything, but it prevents your opponent from gaining anything either. He must spend a turn countering your mass confusion rather than casting something like Mass Righteous Might on that turn instead (which is vastly superior to the phoenix you throw out ocnsidering Mass spells cost half init while the phoenix costs a whole init.) You may have your phoenix but he'll get in 2 spells total before you get in another.
exactly.
I think he just had better hero/strategy, Istari 
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Istari
Known Hero
Truth Teller, ToH
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posted May 16, 2007 05:35 PM |
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Necro's are spellcasters by nature... they have huge spellpower. Sylvan is not nearly as spell dependent. Exchanging spell for spell with no gain in either direction is better for Sylvan. Everytime the phoenix moves once it is cast it is like getting an extra spell. The sooner you see those benefits the better. If the phoenix is attacked, then that spell is also protecting my other creatures. I agree that I should follow-up the phoenix spell with mass slow, then puppet master. But I am pretty sure from my experience that the phoenix must come first.
I would like to hear from necro players who beat the sylvan in a big final battle. What was the successful spell/ attack order for you?
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Opinions are immunity to being told you're wrong.
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betruger
Known Hero
empowered mind
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posted May 16, 2007 06:38 PM |
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I agree. Phoenix first is usually the way to go.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted May 16, 2007 06:48 PM |
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interesting point, then. I always thought it's exactly the opposite - that phoenix is good at the end. Ah well I don't know much about playing necro anyway.
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feluniozbunio
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted May 16, 2007 06:51 PM |
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Phoenix is ridiculous, period... Unless you fight month 3 perhaps... or you are fighting vs Dungeon
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TemjinGold
Known Hero
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posted May 16, 2007 07:57 PM |
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I stand corrected on that point then. Though I do still wonder about letting Sylvan get in 2 mass spells before your second.
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sdfx
Famous Hero
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posted May 17, 2007 03:17 PM |
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A ranger will do everything to stop necromancer's mass spells, frenzy and puppet. That means he will try to get:
15% resistance luck perk(Ossir starts with it anyway)
30% unicorn's aura
master of wrath
10% boots(although windstrider boots are a bigger threat - unicorns and sprites may reach something a necromancer doesn't really wish to)
20% armor
The necromancer's dark may fail him but his phoenix is more powerful than the whole sylvan army combined together.. So, to remove a sylvan army ASAP, cast a phoenix ASAP.
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sq79
Famous Hero
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posted May 17, 2007 05:01 PM |
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Yes.. if your hero's turn goes after the sylvan hero, puppet or frenzy those troops not near to unicorn seems a better choice...
If before the sylvan necro, phoenix is prolly a better choice.
Since battle for honor no phoenix, he will have problem killing that bird.
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Mordaunt5
Tavern Dweller
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posted May 17, 2007 09:44 PM |
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Never cast offensive spells vs Sylvain when you have a powerful phoniex. If your offensive spell is resisted - you are screwed and kicking yourself. Only time to cast Dark magic vs sylvain is if you have staff of Sar-Issus - Resistance -> 0%
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted May 17, 2007 10:06 PM |
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Quote:
Since battle for honor no phoenix, he will have problem killing that bird.
he can always split the wraiths and use the smaller group of them for harmtouching.
no, wait a sec, i messed it up. It's the necro that summons phoenix lol
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PhoenixReborn
Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
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posted May 17, 2007 10:41 PM |
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I try to ignore phoenixes because they will go away when all the troops are dead. If that's not an option because the armies are too big, I guess the Sylvan choice would be to wrap it up with the Ancient Treants.
Battle for Honor is the one with three castles and massive armies right? How long does that take to do multiplayer?
Edit: Right Elvin, I was thinking of hourglass.
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Bask in the light of my glorious shining unicorn.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted May 17, 2007 10:45 PM |
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Hmm bfh has 2 towns and you need to defeat horde of archdevils or lots of titans. I'd say a few hours, don't recall exactly as the few times I've played it I had to save and continue another time 
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sdfx
Famous Hero
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posted May 18, 2007 12:11 AM |
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Yes, but necromancer's dark magic may break poor devils in no time.. Ghost fodders + dark + summoning = devil pwnage
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