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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: Diplomacy skill in WoG
Thread: Diplomacy skill in WoG
Robertukas
Robertukas


Hired Hero
posted May 19, 2007 08:15 AM
Edited by Robertukas at 20:47, 20 May 2007.

Diplomacy skill in WoG

In
[url=http://home.pinknet.cz/~coyot/homm3/gameplay.php] Coyot's HOMM3 Guide [/url]
I found detailed information on Diplomacy skill.

My question:
is anything changed in WoG (besides the script Rebalanced Hero Abilities, which gives: Heroes with Diplomacy have Leadership instead.)?

Correct me if I'm wrong:
1) Week of monsters does not increase the chance for that type of monster to join
2) Week of monsters does not decrease the chance for that type of monster to join (it should decrease the chance to join, because those monsters are stronger during that week)
3) Hero's special ability of that monster does not increase the chance to join
4) Joining (free or costing gold) depends only on these things:
a) diplomacy skill
b) aggression of that monster (i.e. Compliant [will always join hero], Friendly [likely to join hero], Aggressive [may join hero], Hostile [unlikely to join hero], Savage [will never join hero])
c) how good is your hero (army strength, including primary skills (all or just attack and defense?) + secondary skills (which?) )
d) what part of hero's army are similar creatures (i.e. if your army is mostly Titans then neutral Titans (or Giants) will join you with higher probability)
5) Hated creatures do not decrease the chance to join (ex, Titans should not join if you have Black Dragons)
6) Artifacts (Statesman's Medal, Diplomat's Ring, Ambassador's Sash) do not increase the chance to join
7) So if your hero has expert diplomacy, has only Titans and neutral Titans flee and don't offer to join your hero, then they will never join (also they will never join any other hero)
8) Hero's hometown (i.e. Castle, Tower, Inferno, Fortress, Rampart, Dungeon, Stronghold, Necropolis, Elemental Conflux) does not increase the chance to join (ex, Titans will join Gunnar or Solmyr with the same probability if they have the same skills and army)
9) Leadership does not increase the chance to join
10) Experience of creatures is not included when calculating army strength for joining (neither for your creatures, nor for neutral creatures)

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Bigbadfly
Bigbadfly


Famous Hero
posted May 19, 2007 06:58 PM

Cool, i learned something new! Thanks a lot!
Well, i love diplomacy and most other skills, but this was a nice thread!
____________


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doom3d
doom3d


Known Hero
Avatar of general Z
posted May 20, 2007 11:21 AM
Edited by doom3d at 19:37, 20 May 2007.

My question:
is anything changed in WoG (besides the script Rebalanced Hero Abilities, which gives: Heroes with Diplomacy have Leadership instead.)?

Correct me if I'm wrong:
2) Week of monsters does not decrease the chance for that type of monster to join (it should decrease the chance to join, because those monsters are stronger during that week)
Monsters's agression value will depend on game difficulty.
No chance at Impossible to have joiners. Only monster stacks appearing that weak are affected. Agression= 2 +2 *game level.
Effect is permanent.

4) Joining (free or costing gold) depends only on these things:
a) diplomacy skill
b) aggression of that monster (i.e. Compliant [will always join hero], Friendly [likely to join hero], Aggressive [may join hero], Hostile [unlikely to join hero], Savage [will never join hero])
c) how good is your hero (army strength, including primary skills (all or just attack and defense?) + secondary skills (which?) )
d) what part of hero's army are similar creatures (i.e. if your army is mostly Titans then neutral Titans (or Giants) will join you with higher probability)
Monsters agression internally goes from 0 to 10(=Savage).
Diplomacy, same alignment creatures etc. modifies this value.
Otherwise, Yes. (AFAIK)

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Robertukas
Robertukas


Hired Hero
posted May 20, 2007 08:30 PM

Quote:

Monsters's agression value will depend on game difficulty.
No chance at Impossible to have joiners. Only monster stacks appearing that weak are affected. Agression= 2 +2 *game level.
Effect is permanent.


Thanks for info. Now I understand why it was so hard to find joiners. So, diplomacy skill is useless for me, because I only play on impossible level.

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Mr48
Mr48


Adventuring Hero
Legatus Legionis
posted May 23, 2007 04:39 PM

Wait so the diplomatic artifacts sch as the sash the ring and the medal dont affect chances of joining? But in their description it says that they reduce monster aggression, wouldnt that increase chances of joining?

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Robertukas
Robertukas


Hired Hero
posted May 24, 2007 12:19 AM
Edited by Robertukas at 00:20, 24 May 2007.

Lets see artifacts description.

Diplomat's Ring:
Worn on the finger, the Diplomat's Ring reduces the cost of surrendering.

Statesman's Medal:
Worn about the neck, the Statesman's Medal reduces the cost of surrendering.

Ambassador's Sash:
Worn about the shoulders, the Ambassador's Sash reduces the cost of surrendering.

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Asheron
Asheron


Famous Hero
Ancient
posted May 24, 2007 01:08 AM

There a artifact boost script that gives them -1 to monster aggression(-4 or 5 if all are together)...
____________

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Robertukas
Robertukas


Hired Hero
posted May 25, 2007 04:57 PM

You are right:

Script 71 - Enhanced Artifacts
Statesman's Medal reduces aggression by 1
Ring of the Diplomat reduces aggression by 1
Ambassador's Sash reduces aggression by 1
New combination artifact (above 3 artifacts)
The Vestments of Authority: aggression is reduced by 1

Thank you Asheron for noting this.

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Lambda
Lambda

Tavern Dweller
posted January 08, 2011 08:12 AM

Hello.

Something is off here:
1. I remember the diplomacy skill working perfectly (normally) even at impossible difficulty before WoG.
2. In my most recent impossible WoG game, creatures only offered to join if I payed them a ton of gold (never for free).

I'd like to know if WoG changes the default behaviour of this skill and if there's a script that modifies it in any way.
Meanwhile, I'll try a new map..

Thanks for reading.

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fanofHeroes
fanofHeroes


Adventuring Hero
posted February 08, 2012 07:11 PM

Quote:
Hello.

Something is off here:
1. I remember the diplomacy skill working perfectly (normally) even at impossible difficulty before WoG.
2. In my most recent impossible WoG game, creatures only offered to join if I payed them a ton of gold (never for free).

I'd like to know if WoG changes the default behaviour of this skill and if there's a script that modifies it in any way.
Meanwhile, I'll try a new map..

Thanks for reading.


I've noticed something affecting the diplomacy in my version too.  In fact if I choose to accept the WOG scripts the diplomacy doesn't work at all.  Even if I preset a wandering monster to join my hero with ease, they still opt to flee.  Is there a way to fix this?

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Thorfinn
Thorfinn

Tavern Dweller
posted February 08, 2012 09:46 PM

If you select the option "Neutral Stack Size" on "Map Enhancements" it sets aggression to "Savage", making Diplomacy pretty much worthless.

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fanofHeroes
fanofHeroes


Adventuring Hero
posted February 08, 2012 09:57 PM

Quote:
If you select the option "Neutral Stack Size" on "Map Enhancements" it sets aggression to "Savage", making Diplomacy pretty much worthless.


hahaha awesome! such a simple thing to correct!! thanks!!


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MattII
MattII


Legendary Hero
posted February 11, 2012 10:13 AM

One thing I've noticed is that the least likely creatures to want to join a hero seem to be creatures belonging to the same faction as the rest of the army. Makes no sense to me, I'd have thought they'd be the most likely to join.

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majaczek
majaczek


Famous Hero
Work at Magic Dimmension
posted February 12, 2012 05:10 PM

@mattII
perhaps a WoG bug
and SoD was buggy in some places too
I digged out note in internet once that there's a bug in SoD (which WoG doesn't fix) which makes Armorer work reverse in sieges (so you have worse health with Armorer!), and it's a reason why many experienced players don't get Armorer in game (as most interplayer battles they make are sieges since experienced players don't allow to "catch" the weaker hero out of castle)

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