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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: Heroes 5 Weaponry, Armory and Historic / Mythologic relations
Thread: Heroes 5 Weaponry, Armory and Historic / Mythologic relations This thread is 4 pages long: 1 2 3 4 · NEXT»
Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted June 21, 2007 01:34 AM bonus applied.
Edited by alcibiades at 21:06, 09 Sep 2007.

Heroes 5 Weaponry, Armory and Historic / Mythologic relations

Haven't made a thread in a while plus I'll be away for most of the summer so here you are! My reserves of boredom towards study coupled with my interest in middle ages weaponry gives birth to:

           HOMM 5 WEAPONS THREAD!

Here I will attempt to see where the H5 artists got inspiration from and how the original weapons looked like as well as their functions. Art immitates life after all!


ACADEMY


Gremlin weaponry is probably inspired by the hand gonne, the first handheld portable firearm As you can imagine it didn't have much range(50 to 300 metres at best according to its design) and was less effective in open battle and wet or windy conditions though it had its uses in sieges or ambushes. Could bypass armour.

I knew it existed but was unaware of its name until lately. It's invention can be either european or eastern but there is no evidence.






The golems and djinns obviously use scimitars with the curved blade as a trademark. Note that not all curved swords are scimitars and that while eastern, the scimitar started playing a sometimes significant role in Middle Eastern warfare more than two millennia before the advent of Islam in the form of the khopesh(sickle sword). Reminiscent of backswords the secondary weapons of European-style cavalrymen beginning whose name likely originates into their slinging the weapon in sheath behind their back to prevent it from clanging against his or the horse’s side as they galloped

Generally eastern swords tend to be curved eg Yatagan, Shamshir, Mameluke Sword etc.






Rakshasa rajas have curved swords as well to fit the theme The ranis have similar yet jagged blades, not sure if this weapon existed or Nival thought it would look cool to be honest They vaguely remind of the the european flamberge not because of the design but the wavy blade. When parrying with its rapier version it could transmit unpleasant vibrations into the attacker's blade. They caused the blades to slow contact with each other due to the additional friction. Its two handed version was used to break the first enemy line. Plus it looked scary

So either I am not aware of the rani's sword or it's a cross of scimitar/flamberge Anyone who knows?






DUNGEON


Scout crossbows. Crossbows are not clear exactly where and when they originated from, but there is undoubted evidence that it was used for military purposes from the second half of the 4th century BC onwards. They have many types of design as handheld, pistol, repeating, siege etc. Some crossbows were made to shoot stones or lead bullets but generally they use bolts.






Blood furies obviously use daggers Typically double-edged blade used for stabbing or thrusting, they often fulfil the role of a secondary defence weapon in close combat. Daggers may be roughly differentiated from knives on the basis that daggers are intended primarily for stabbing whereas knives are usually single-edged and intended mostly for cutting. In some cultures as Egypt they were adorned as ceremonial objects.






Minotaurs use axes and their ugrades battleaxe. The axe is an ancient and ubiquitous tool that has been used to shape, split and cut wood, harvest timber, as a weapon and a ceremonial or heraldic symbol. The axe has many forms and specialized uses but generally consists of an axe head with a handle. The battle axe is usually an arm-length weapon borne in one or both hands. Compared to a sword swing, it delivers more cleaving power against a smaller target area, making it more effective against armor, due to concentrating more of its weight in the axehead. However, it allows much less precision than a sword does.






The raiders use the lance usually referred to a variety of different pole weapons based on the spear. A lance in the original sense is a light throwing spear, or javelin but the term from the 17th century came to refer specifically to spears used for thrusting by heavy cavalry, and especially in jousting. The heavy lance is a "Shock" weapon. It's purpose is to unhorse a rider in single combat, such as in the "joust for peace"; or smash through the armor of opposing lines. For the first purpose it is seldom mounted with a sharp "Point of War" and never sharpened for the purpose of recreating a medieval joust.






Matriarchs use whips Basically The word whip describes two basic types of tools: A long stick-like device, usually slightly flexible or a long tapered flexible length of single-strand or plaited (braided) material (usually leather) with a stiff handle. As well as these traditional whip types designed for use on animals, there are whip designs that had historic uses for inflicting pain on humans, such as the "cat o' nine tails". These devices are used as flogging instruments, a means of control, corporal punishment or torture. I think it's pretty fitting






HAVEN


I doubt the pitchfork was meant to be used as a weapon() but conscripts' porearm certainly was. The specific one reminds something between a glaive, designed with a single-edged blade on the end of a pole and a halberd. The halberd was cheap to produce and very versatile in battle. As the halberd was eventually refined, its point was developed to allow it to better deal with spears and pikes (also able to push back approaching horsemen), as was the hook opposite the axe head, which could be used to pull horsemen to the ground. The halberd has also been used as a court bodyguard weapon for centuries.
The conscript's weapon seems to borrow properties from both.








I have covered the crossbow so let's see about the archer's bow. A bow is an ancient weapon that shoots arrows powered by the elasticity of the bow. Energy is stored in the limbs of the bow and transformed into rapid motion when the string is released, with the string transferring this motion to the arrow. The bow is used for hunting, sport (target shooting), and in historical times was a weapon of war. It has different types including the composite bow, crossbow, longbow, the ballista etc.






Footmen and squires seem to wield a bastard sword. It could be used by either one or both hands so it was neither a one-handed sword nor a true great-sword/two-handed sword, and thus not a member of either "family". Bastard-swords typically had longer handles with special "half-grips" which could be used by either one or both hands. These handles have recognizable "waist" and "bottle" shapes.They varied and they might have either a flat blade or narrow hexagonal one for fighting plate-armor. Some were intended more for cutting while others were better for thrusting.






Priests are swown using a mace while the inquisitors a warhammer. A mace consists of a strong, heavy wooden, metal-reinforced, or metal shaft, with a head made of stone, copper, bronze, iron or steel. The head is normally about the same or slightly thicker than the diameter of the shaft and can be shaped with flanges, or knobs to allow greater penetration of armour. The length of maces can vary considerably. The maces of foot soldiers were usually quite short while cavalrymen's were longer and better designed for blows from horseback. Two-handed maces ("mauls") could be even larger.
A war hammer is a late medieval weapon of war intended for close combat, the design of which resembles the hammer. D'uh! The handle may be of different lengths, the longest being roughly equivalent to the halberd, and the shortest about the same as a mace. Long war hammers were pole weapons (polearms) meant for use against riders, whereas short ones were used in closer quarters and from horseback. Later war hammers often had a spike on one side of the head, thus making it a more versatile weapon.
It could by impact alone do damage without penetrating the armour. The spike end could be used for grappling the target's armour, reins, or shield, or could be turned in the direction of the blow to pierce even heavy armour. Against mounted opponents, the weapon could also be directed at the legs of the horse, toppling the armored foe to the ground where he could be more easily attacked.






Cavaliers as expected use lances but of a special design In medieval jousting mounted knights would charge at their enemies with weapons to try to kill or disable them. The primary use of the jousting lance was to unhorse the other by striking them with the end of the lance while riding towards them at high speed. It had a tip so that the blow was not lethal.






And finally angels that use a greatsword The greatswords were not a form of "specialized weapon" as much as they were "outsized specimens Infantry weapons only which could not be used in a single-hand. Their blades might be flat and wide or later on, more narrow and hexagonal or diamond shaped. These larger swords capable of facing heavier weapons such as pole-arms and larger axes were devastating against lighter armors. Against plate armor they are handled with tighter movements that emphasize their thrusting points and allow for greater use of the hilt.
I'd say the H5 artists overdid it






Inferno units typically don't use weapons except the pitlord that has a broken variation of the greatsword and the devil whose weapon I'm not sure I know what it is


NECROPOLIS

Not much to tell I have covered most things so far. Except the wraith's scythe A scythe consists of a long wooden shaft called a snath with a perpendicular handle at one end and another roughly in the middle. The scythe appeared in Europe during the 12th and 13th centuries and was initially used for reaping grass mostly. A war scythe has had its blade transformed so that it extends upright from the staff, and is used much like a halberd. It was widely used by Polish peasants in the 18th and 19th centuries. The scythe also plays an important traditional role, often appearing as weapons in the hands of mythical beings such as Father Time, the four horsemen of the Apocalypse and the Grim Reaper which stems mainly from the Christian cultural interpretation of death as a "harvest of souls."






SYLVAN


The hunters use a form of bow commonly known as longbow, a type of bow that is roughly equal to the height of a person who uses it, not significantly recurved and has relatively narrow limbs. Longbows have a fairly long draw and range and have been used for hunting and warfare, by many cultures around the world.






Druis utilize the staff, a large, thick stick or stick-shaped object used to help with walking, as a status symbol, or as a weapon. Staves are theoretically among the earliest tools, were used as weapons in artillery , standard cavalry units or even the police forces. Staves are also associated with wizards and other users of magic and sorcery. Staves are a traditional prop for the elderly and infirm, and this has led to their association with wisdom. Yep, fits well enough






FORTRESS


The defenders use a pickaxe, not surprisingly given that dwarves are associated with mining It is a hand tool with a hard head attached perpendicular to the handle. The pointed edge is most often used to break up rocky surfaces or other hard surfaces such as concrete or hardened dried earth. The large momentum of a heavy pickaxe, combined with the small contact area, makes it very effective for this purpose. The chiseled end, if present, is used for purposes including cutting through roots.
Originally used as agricultural tools as far back as prehistoric cultures, picks have also served for tasks ranging from mining to warfare. The design has also evolved into other tools such as the plough and the mattock. The defenders use a more elegant pick






Spearwielders use a flat bladed spear hehe Spears were used for melee as they were used for throwing, often at a run, releasing when the opposite foot to the throwing arm is forward. That's just about it.






Bear riders wield a warhammer, which was a usual weapon for mounted combat while their upgrades hold a massive club A blunt-force weapon, typically small enough to be wielded in one hand. Clubs that need both hands to wield are called quarterstaffs in English. The simplest of all weapons; a club is typically carved from a single piece of wood; any piece of wood that is narrow enough on one end to be grasped by the hand of its wielder can be used as or made into an improvised club. The wounds inflicted by a club are generally known as bludgeoning or blunt-force trauma injuries.






Brawlers favour the use of cestus, an ancient battle glove, sometimes used in pankration. In effect, it is the Classic World's equivalent to brass knuckles. The first version of a battle cestus was a series of leather thongs that were tied over the hand. Cestus were frequently used in roman gladiator bouts where otherwise unarmed combatants - mostly slaves - fought to the death.






Kudos to alchemist85 for finding what the berserk weapon was Seems the 'cruelly-bladed gauntlets' were katar, a type of short punching sword native to the Indian Subcontinent and popular elsewhere for swift and quick attacks. It is notable for its horizontal hand grip, which results in the blade of the sword sitting above the user's knuckles. Typically, katars were used in close range hand-to-hand combat, which is effective in armour piercing. The blade was often folded or corrugated for additional strength. Some knives have a mechanism responsible for making the blades split, used to inflict a greater damage to the enemy, having the blades splitting inside of them and slashing their insides






The axes, warhammer and staff have already been mentioned so there is little more to say. Except they look amazing! I mean just look at these!








I hope there were at least a few things you were not aware of
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TDL
TDL


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Supreme Hero
The weak suffer. I endure.
posted June 21, 2007 01:57 AM

You forgot to mention "fun" as the primary contemporary use of the whip...
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Elvin
Elvin


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Endless Revival
posted June 21, 2007 02:01 AM

Hey I drew TDL back to posting

You are right but that is a given
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Asheron
Asheron


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posted June 21, 2007 02:11 AM

OMG This is the most useful thread I've seen! I applaud to you,dude,you did a helluva good job  Although I knew these things So what do we discuss here?
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PhoenixReborn
PhoenixReborn


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Unicorn
posted June 21, 2007 02:13 AM

Quote:
OMG This is the most useful thread I've seen! I applaud to you,dude,you did a helluva good job  Although I knew these things So what do we discuss here?


We discuss how bored Elvin is?

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Asheron
Asheron


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Ancient
posted June 21, 2007 02:16 AM

Quote:

We discuss how bored Elvin is?

Haha I don't think he had that in mind
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executor
executor


Famous Hero
Otherworldly Ambassador
posted June 21, 2007 02:43 AM
Edited by executor at 02:43, 21 Jun 2007.

Nice thread elvin .
The RL weaponry looks like toys compared to their ingame counterparts, don't you think ?
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Destro23
Destro23


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Keeper of GrongGrong
posted June 21, 2007 02:51 AM

Berserkers on the other hand are mentioned to use 'cruelly-bladed gauntlets'. I have absolutely no idea where they thought of that but it does look cruel


Conan The Barbarian -- about 30 mins into the movie when he is taken as a slave tot he fighting pits.  I would bet money this is were the idea came from

Well I looked for a picture of it..but sadly I couldn't find one.  But in that movie Conan fights with some especially cruel modified cestus.  Brutal fight scenes in fact

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TemjinGold
TemjinGold


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posted June 21, 2007 05:39 AM

Elvin - You forgot the Zombie's butcher knife!

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Elvin
Elvin


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posted June 21, 2007 09:43 AM
Edited by Elvin at 09:44, 21 Jun 2007.

I've seen Conan but it's been some years since then Can't remember the gauntlets but it is possible as Nival has been using references to movies and other games. One easy example is the goblin's sword that comes straight out of lotr.

The topic is not about my boredom It's about if you can recognize the weapon references, what you think about the ingame weapons, info I might have missed etc. As a comment I find that the H5 weapons are more about the coolness factor than practical application

About the butcher's knife I wasn't so sure of what to write Seems obvious!
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VokialBG
VokialBG


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posted June 21, 2007 09:48 AM

Quote:
Elvin - You forgot the Zombie's butcher knife!


And the small woodaxe of the Skeleton, the minotours are with axe's, but they are double axe's, the double axe's were used in Minos the cilivization on Crete (I'm sure, that elvin know it). And late in Rome, the double axe is symbol of power, only the senators can have one. Basicly the double axes were used in Minos as combat weapons but in Romo just as symbol of the senators...
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Elvin
Elvin


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posted June 21, 2007 10:20 AM

That's what I'm talking about! I didn't know about the senator part to be honest and yes, I did forget some things. I'll check that later to see what I can add.
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emilsn
emilsn


Legendary Hero
posted June 21, 2007 10:31 AM

Love it Love to read about these things And well, Good to see that Nival is using weapons of history - So it doesn't seem out of time...
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alchemist85
alchemist85


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Disciple(s II) of Desert
posted June 21, 2007 11:54 AM

Quote:
Berserkers on the other hand are mentioned to use 'cruelly-bladed gauntlets'. I have absolutely no idea where they thought of that but it does look cruel


The same weapons were used by assasins in Diablo 2. They are called Katars and there's the link to wikipedia info about them: [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katar]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katar[/url]

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Darkeye
Darkeye


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posted June 21, 2007 02:46 PM
Edited by alcibiades at 15:00, 21 Jun 2007.

Great Thread
This must surely be worth a QP to Elvin

EDIT > Complied.

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Elvin
Elvin


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posted June 21, 2007 06:46 PM

Thanks
@alchemist85> You know, the katars kinda remind me of planescape torment's punch daggers. They are used in much the same way as claws or a cestus except they are used for piercing.
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Darkeye
Darkeye


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posted June 21, 2007 10:29 PM

The gmae gets much more interesting when there are some realistic factors involved. Although HOMM is one really mixed up fantasy coctail, still much the weaponry makes sense.

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VokialBG
VokialBG


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posted June 22, 2007 09:19 AM
Edited by VokialBG at 09:21, 22 Jun 2007.

A day ago I've wonder what can I add here:

Defensive wapons

Cloaks

The cloak is a type of loose garment that is worn over indoor clothing and serves the same purpose as an overcoat—it protects the wearer from the cold, rain... In some countries the cloaks are obligatory part of the uniforms of the policemans.

In time of war, the cloak are populary used in the infantry during rain or cold, often during rest. In some armies only the officers can have a cloak.

Sometimes the colour of the cloak hint us, how high in the hierarchy is it's ouner.

In suitable colour the cloaks can be used as camouflage.




The Marter hunter have cloak with camouflage colour:



Helmets

A helmet is a form of protective gear worn on the head. Traditionally, helmets have been made of metal but in the pre-history to the early middle ages you can see also helmets of wood or hide. Not every hide is suitable for helmet, you can use hide of bear, wolf and pig, but not of rabbit

The metal helmet are the most popular helmets, in the Roman empire the  helmets are symbols too, high rang - better looking helmet .

The peasant has helmet made of hide:



The Squire has typical helmet of metal:



Shields

A shield is a protective device, meant to intercept attacks. In the early European Middle Ages kite shields were commonly used; these were rounded at the top and tapered at the bottom. They were easily used on horseback and allowed easier leg movement when dismounted. Tower shields were common among front-line troops, often spearmen with shorter spears. The largest were almost as tall as a man, and usually wider. They offered excellent protection against missiles. However, most were smaller, able to protect about 2/3 of the body at a time. As personal body armour improved, knight's shields became smaller, leading to the familiar heater shield style.

When the mann become knight he has a white shield with nothing on it, just white colour, when the knight take part for first time in war his greatest heroism will be drawn on his shield.

The tribe's in Africa and previously the Indians use shields even at the present, as ceremonial shields.

The Paladin has a heater shield:



The Skeleton Warrior has not very typical tower shield:



Barding

Barding is armour for horses. During the late Middle Ages as armour protection for knights became more effective, their mounts became targets. The Bard is made of 5 basic Components:

Champron - For protecting the horse's face.



Criniere - Used to protect the horse's neck.

Croupiere - Used to protect the horse's hind quarters.

Flanchard - For the flanks.

Peytral - For the horse's chest.



Mail armour

Mail is a type of armour or jewelry that consists of small metal rings linked together in a pattern to form a mesh. This construction can ward off a slashing blow by an edged weapon, preventing it from cutting through to the skin.



The mail was used for last time during WWI, buy the tank crews.

Mail armour on the Footman:



Plate armour

Plate armour is personal armour made from large metal plates, worn on the chest and sometimes the entire body.

The plate armour was most populat from 13th century to 16th century.

From the 15th century on, armour specifically designed for jousting.



Part's of the armour:

Couter's - it must defence the elbows

Gauntlet's - fot the hands, they are typicaly made by two parts, one of plate armour and one of mail armour for the fingers.

Pauldron's - Its for defence of the spaulders.

Rerebrace's - its made to protect your arm above the elbow.

Vambrace's - for the forearms.

No... there is nothing more in the game... or I can't find it...
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Elvin
Elvin


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posted June 22, 2007 10:28 AM

Haha no you must have found most Not weaponry but that should do and complements the thread pretty much.
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emilsn
emilsn


Legendary Hero
posted June 22, 2007 06:30 PM

Awesome

But why do you use Beta pictures of the creatures? Are there no pictures of the ones that is in the game now! ?
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