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| Thread: Committing Social Suicide. | |
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Setitetart
Known Hero
Reality check....
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posted July 22, 2007 05:48 AM |
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Committing Social Suicide.
I know, I know...I get on this soapbox every now and again and freak out about all the injustices that are being committed just by simply trying to speak.
I mean, seriously, is all of this really necessary?
These days it is getting to be a mouthful to say anything and god forbid you screw it up…
It is like committing social suicide.
One faux pas, and YOU are the ignorant jerk that mistook Japanese for Korean, an Kenyan for a Jaimaican, or whatever...
Now everyone is offended.
Great. Just what everyone needed.
Well Jeez...*rolls eyes*
Didn't you know that they are totally different?
No. Of course not.
You didn't know, and I didn't either and it caused me all kinds of hassle.
How many times have you been talking with someone and they or you say something along the lines of:
"Hey you know that long haired guy from Bosnia?"
Or
"No, no, no that tall black girl."
We all do it in some form or fashion…but really is it important that we earmark the color or place of a person?
In my last post I talked about stereotypes…
This time it is all about WHAT people WANT to be CALLED.
I absolutely loathe the people on the PC soapbox.
Especially in the "what is acceptable to call me" department.
God forbid anyone says anything that has even the remote possibility of offending anyone else.
It wasn't always like this, this constant checking and rechecking of what you say or write to see whether or not you MIGHT offend someone.
Where is this coming from?
Well.
African-American.
Totally PC right?
Isn't it?
NOPE.
Not any more.
Actually, depending on where you are, and whom you are talking to, saying that could get you, at the very least, smacked.
A long time ago they were referred to as "colored folk" and then, "Negroes", and THEN "Blacks" and finally "African Americans" and the more widely known and frowned on "snows" or as many would be thugs call themselves "Niggas" willingly.
First off, let me say VERY CLEARLY I do NOT like the "N" word in ANY variance.
I find it personally offensive but I wont lift a finger to stop ANY person I know, black OR white (pink, purple, red, polka dotted or otherwise colored) from using it.
I don't honestly believe that any self-respecting human being would use that word for anything other than pointing it out as the depreciating word it really is.
Freedom of Speech.
Derogatory?
Yes absolutely.
Without a doubt.
But as I have said before, do I have that right to tell you that YOU cant say it, type it, write it or use it?
No.
As the world changes so does its speech. What also changes is the PC and non-PC speech.
These days there are African or Nigerian-Americans or Jamaican-Americans, Haitian-Americans, and everything in between depending on their countries of origin. Other people prefer the term black, which seems to include everyone, regardless of nationality.
But really….HOW are people supposed to know what IS correct?
There are 194 independent countries in the world today depending on the source.
That boils down to roughly 194 things people might want to be called, based on where they are from or where their roots are…or not.
Personally, I say what is on my mind, and if I offend you…
Oh well.
YOU know what?
Walk it off.
Rub some dirt on it.
Suck it up.
Go cry to someone else about how mean I am or how non-PC I am because I talk to you like another normal human being.
People that know me well enough, know that I clean up my language for very few.
I don't sugar coat or make any attempts to BS you.
I speak the truth as I see it.
And for the record, I could care less what color you are, what your gender is, or where you hail from.
If you are decent and respectful to me, I will do the same for you.
But no matter WHO you are I will NOT sugar coat anything.
Period.
Anyway….
Quite a few months ago I did posts on the PC thread in Myspazz. As I looked things up, and talked to people, it became clear to me that people had MORE THAN a few ideas about what they should and shouldn't be called.
And that is confusing.
What's more is that it can put you in awkward social situations if you aren't up on the latest "acceptable" terms.
As I said…committing social suicide.
I shouldn't have to feel like I have to do massive research before I meet or talk a person just so I don't embarrass them or myself.
Some people make it such a big deal when really, all things considered, it shouldn't matter what color you are or where you are from.
I am not going to be addressing anyone as Miss-she-is-a-Puerto-Rican,
or Mr.-that-Kenyan-American from down the street.
And I don't want you addressing me as that Gothy white girl from South Dakota.
That's what it has come to...and I think it is ridiculous.
I should just be me, and you should just be you.
No places.
No colors.
No labels.
Is that so much to ask?
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"Do you think we should drive a stake through his heart, just in case?"
~ Peter Lorre to Vincent Price at Bela Lugosi's funeral
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kookastar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
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posted July 22, 2007 06:09 AM |
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This is interesting, and I think it's been discussed before, but anyways 
Of course we shouldn't label people, we should just see who they are. Unfortunately society isn't like that, and like it or not we all have to fight against stereotypes that we have been brought up with. The larger the amount of 'different' people we meet, the easier it is to debunk these, or sometimes it can re-inforce them. It is the way our brain is wired - it is genetic, that we organise information and group things in our minds {assimilation}.
I find it interesting that you say: Quote:
First off, let me say VERY CLEARLY I do NOT like the "N" word in ANY variance
and yet have issues with other terms that people find offensive...
As part of the dominant race it is difficult to really understand what the minority groups have been through growing up, and that some words you may find harmless can be just as offensive as the N word. So what's the difference? I have no problem not using a word if it will offend someone...
Most of us have words or labels that hurt us, I used to get really upset when people would call me "nice", I'd be like, GRRRRR I don't want to be nice!  years later, I try to be nice again The same with the word snow - I just like sex right! You get the idea... and I am getting sidetracked.
It is hard to describe people without using terms that show how they are different to everyone else. So we seek these terms like black, or Asain to describe someone, when if they were white we probably wouldn't even mention their colour. I think this is what is upsetting, as they see they are identified by their race, rather than who they are or what they do.
I am part of the dominant race though, so I really have no idea.
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uhuh
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Setitetart
Known Hero
Reality check....
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posted July 22, 2007 06:53 AM |
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Quote:
As part of the dominant race it is difficult to really understand what the minority groups have been through growing up, and that some words you may find harmless can be just as offensive as the N word. So what's the difference? I have no problem not using a word if it will offend someone.....
Statistics in the United States are pointing to the ideal that whites are no longer the majority...
Yet i have been hard pressed to find anything that supports that.
Quote:
It is hard to describe people without using terms that show how they are different to everyone else. So we seek these terms like black, or Asain to describe someone, when if they were white we probably wouldn't even mention their colour. I think this is what is upsetting, as they see they are identified by their race, rather than who they are or what they do..
I think you nailed it right on the head there...people want to be known for who they are and what they do, NOT what race they are.
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"Do you think we should drive a stake through his heart, just in case?"
~ Peter Lorre to Vincent Price at Bela Lugosi's funeral
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Vlaad
Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
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posted July 22, 2007 01:37 PM |
bonus applied. |
Edited by Vlaad at 22:53, 26 Jul 2007.
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The fact that you feel the need to redefine political correctness (i.e. the current expressions) shows that you consider the issues non-existent. That is a good thing and says you are not a racist, nationalist, sexist etc.
However, do not assume that the other side shares your opinion. And it’s their call.
I will not deal with slavery, segregation and affirmative action in the States. Instead, let me tell you about something I am familiar with - political correctness in Serbia, where it is currently a major issue.
For example, the term you choose to describe other nationalities in the split of a second determines your political and moral set of values. Bear with me.
Bosnian sounds neutral, but it is a geographical reference and therefore it is somewhat incorrect; the person could be a Serb or a Croat, but he is not. Muslim was used throughout 20th century, but it is a confession, not a nationality. However, it is still widely used in Serbia instead of Bosniak, the name they have recently chosen themselves. Not to mention Balija, which is hate speech.
Get the idea...?
If a Serb speaks of Bosniaks, it is a clear sign of tolerance and respect. Believe me, this expression resounds like the crack of a whip in a quiet class. Bosnian is vague and misleading. Muslim is common but has an underlying sound of denial regarding the war crimes committed by Serbs in the civil war in Bosnia. Finally, Balija speaks volumes about the person who uttered the word...
I think you understand why it’s important for us to use politically correct expressions, especially when nobody can force you. When it comes to our troubled past, it is a sign of recognition and reconciliation. When it comes to our uncertain future, it is the provision of understanding and peace.
Which gets us to my second point... Teaching our children to use politically correct vocabulary affects the way they see the world. A snow is not an African American. An African American is not a snow.
Speaking of African American and whether it's PC... Actually, there is an explanation for this phenomenon and it called euphemism treadmill.
Did you know that idiot used to mean selfish, not interested or ignorant in Ancient Greece and Rome? It became an expression for the stupid and was later used in psychology for mentally challenged people. Linguists claim it was a scientific term which eventually got a derogatory meaning because it was often used in everyday speech by bigots. How do we say it these days – special?
It’s the same with racial slurs – once a PC expression becomes worn out by bigots, its original purpose is lost. Then the minority chooses whatever word they find appropriate, and you are happy to oblige – unless you are a bigot. 
I admit it’s confusing, but once you are aware of this social process - there are no excuses.
P.S. Special, mentally challenged, blah blah... Like somebody noticed, it actually hides the true severity of the handicap, doesn’t it? It takes away the edge.
Politically correct expressions should NOT be the same as euphemisms.
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setitetart
Known Hero
Reality check....
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posted July 24, 2007 07:39 AM |
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Quote:
The fact that you feel the need to redefine political correctness (i.e. the current expressions) shows that you consider the issues non-existent. That is a good thing and says you are not a racist, nationalist, sexist etc.
No, not as a whole.
Quote:
If a Serb speaks of Bosniaks, it is a clear sign of tolerance and respect. Believe me, this expression resounds like the crack of a whip in a quiet class. Bosnian is vague and misleading. Muslim is common but has an underlying sound of denial regarding the war crimes committed by Serbs in the civil war in Bosnia. Finally, Balija speaks volumes about the person who uttered the word...
[bold]Bosnian is vague and misleading.[bold]
Now see...I would have never known that. I know a handful of people from Bosnia...and I would have never thought that there was anything else better to know them as...does that make any sense? LOL
Quote:
I think you understand why it’s important for us to use politically correct expressions, especially when nobody can force you. When it comes to our troubled past, it is a sign of recognition and reconciliation. When it comes to our uncertain future, it is the provision of understanding and peace.
Absolutely well spoken. I can respect that. And yes I am well aware of WHY it is important to use some PC expressions.
The problem is no one seems to be able to engage common sense on the issue very much these days.
Quote:
Which gets us to my second point... Teaching our children to use politically correct vocabulary affects the way they see the world. A snow is not African American. African American is not a snow.
To me it...the "N" word...signifies a person [bold]regardless of color[bold] that is without respect to themselves or others, a person that refuses to better themselves or their situations, a person that manipulates the system and others to get things, a person that spits in the face of any hard working, upstanding, respectable and responsible human being.
Quote:
Speaking of African American and whether it's PC... Actually, there is an explanation for this phenomenon and it called euphemism treadmill.
I will have to look that up...fascinating.
Quote:
Did you know that idiot used to mean selfish, not interested or ignorant in Ancient Greece and Rome? It became an expression for the stupid and was later used in psychology for mentally challenged people. Linguists claim it was a scientific term which eventually got a derogatory meaning because it was often used in everyday speech by bigots. How do we say it these days – special?
Yes. LOL special indeed.
____________
"Do you think we should drive a stake through his heart, just in case?"
~ Peter Lorre to Vincent Price at Bela Lugosi's funeral
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Vlaad
Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
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posted July 24, 2007 11:36 AM |
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Edited by Vlaad at 15:16, 26 Jul 2007.
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clarification
Quote:
Quote:
Bosnian is vague and misleading.
Now see...I would have never known that. I know a handful of people from Bosnia...and I would have never thought that there was anything else better to know them as...does that make any sense? LOL
I was talking from Serbian point of view.
Bosnian is neutral since it simply means of Bosnia or from Bosnia. The word is not offensive but vague (it could mean either a Serb, Croat or Bosniak from Bosnia). In other words, it's not a faux pas, especially not in America. Similarly, Negro and African American are of little significance here in the Balkans. In brief, you'll be wrong but safe with Bosnian. Quote:
To me it...the "N" word...signifies a person regardless of color that is without respect to themselves or others, a person that refuses to better themselves or their situations, a person that manipulates the system and others to get things, a person that spits in the face of any hard working, upstanding, respectable and responsible human being.
Got it. The same way Gypsy is used here.  Quote:
LOL special indeed
Ah, it always happens to somebody else... I was talking to a friend and said: "Yeah, those comics are for the retarded." She replied: "My boyfriend's brother is retarded and actually enjoys those books a lot." Ouch. After a tumbleweed moment I was all "sorry, I didn't mean it that way" blah blah... A completely harmless context, yet I hurt her feelings.
Special as in special needs, I guess. I believe mentally challenged will soon be subject to euphemism treadmill.
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Setitetart
Known Hero
Reality check....
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posted July 26, 2007 06:12 AM |
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Quote:
Ah, it always happens to somebody else... I was talking to a friend and said: "Yeah, those comics are for the retarded." She replied: "My boyfriend's brother is retarded and actually enjoys those books a lot." Ouch. After a tumbleweed moment I was all "sorry, I didn't mean it that way" blah blah... A completely harmless context, yet I hurt her feelings.
Special as in special needs, I guess. I believe mentally challenged will soon be subject to euphemism treadmill.
I call that "foot in mouth syndrome" and that happens to EVERY one at some point or another.
Whoopsie moment indeed, even if it wasn't intended that way. Slangs and how a person uses their words can really be...well...something.
I have had some of those moments....none that I care to share though. LOL
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"Do you think we should drive a stake through his heart, just in case?"
~ Peter Lorre to Vincent Price at Bela Lugosi's funeral
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