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Binabik
Responsible
Legendary Hero
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posted August 28, 2007 10:15 AM |
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Edited by Binabik at 10:18, 28 Aug 2007.
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They both have 100% chance of getting earth and air if they pick all magic schools offered. But Barbarian has a much better chance of getting both first.
Earth Air Water Fire
3 3 0 2 barbarian
3 1 2 0 beastmaster
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Gallow
Bad-mannered
Known Hero
Avenger
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posted August 28, 2007 12:14 PM |
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yea,actually with mr.crag i got a lot of times earth ad air,and when you get that,super stronghold,youll see.tazar is good too,but how we see in that,barbarians have better chances to get it.
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maretti
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted August 28, 2007 12:44 PM |
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Edited by maretti at 16:30, 30 Aug 2007.
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Crag has 8 in tactics so its unlikely you wont have exp tactics for the main fight.
Taz will often have to take water to be sure to get air, which means a skill is more or less waisted, whereas crag will often get earth and air as the two first magics offered, and even if you are offered fire as your 2nd magic you dont run that big a risk declining it.
About mass haste right away with inferno: Since your wyverns and pits have speed 7 you have to kill all flies and potentially angels with devils, sultans and (angels). Even if you should succeed in that you only have 2 stacks to crumble the rest of his army (moos, hydras, wyverns, basilisks and lizards) and you have killed the flies who are pretty weak. So its very likely that the moos will hurt the devils badly and the hydras will do multiple attack. Especially in this case with the fliedwell I find it very unlikely that mass haste from inferno will be a good idea. If you have exp tactics you can place the flies at position 4 and 2 hex units at position 3 and 5. In that case it will be impossible to kill them.
@Binabik: Its hard to say exactly how to play it from a screenshot, I just saw Crag over there and thought what the hell. Since he would be my likely choice for main I would rather send kyrre over there. But its no big deal.
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Crag rules, Orrin and Ivor suck
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dimis
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Digitally signed by FoG
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posted August 28, 2007 11:03 PM |
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Edited by dimis at 23:22, 28 Aug 2007.
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Quote:
Btw....can anyone of those testers (ecoris, dimis...) post the probabilities for Crag and Taz getting BOTH skills (earth and air)?
I'm not sure those numbers would differ that much...
I just noticed the question, as I was skimming through the thread. But the question is not complete. I suspect you assume that you pick every time a magic skill (either new, or upgrade one). Still, this is not sufficient, because there has to be a "decision-algorithm" (a way to decide) among the rest of the skills in the rest of the cases. That's the easy part of the story; the hard part comes next: Basically, internals_mc doesn't cover so far the case where someone always pick magic once it is offered. Moreover, there have to be some additions in source code, so that I can allow this type of questions to be answered; in a similar manner to ansaExtended.
Bottom line, this would require one full day of work and with my current schedule it seems impossible for this week(-end). I don't have even an internet connection at home, which makes things even worse. 
Of course, post your suggestions for "decision-maker" details in this thread; meaning what would you do in cases where no-magic schools are offered (eventually, I 'll create all variations, but for starters it would be nice to concentrate on the most important {which is group of skills, but needs even more work, and that's why I try to skip it ...  })
Oh, and btw, the other interesting part which remains to be implemented is results on a per-level basis, so that you know which hero reaches the desired result faster. But again this needs some extra work.
Hopefully, I will have prepared most of these by mid/end-September, but no guarantees atm ...
EDIT:I think it is obvious that I have many things on my mind and why I don't try to update source code with extra capabilities atm. As Binabik rightly suggests, if you always pick magic (no matter what you decide for the rest of the cases) both Heroes have a 100% chance to get all magic schools hence the combination of Earth and Air is also 100%. The point is who "reaches" faster there I guess, but as I said I don't support that option yet...
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The empty set
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Ecoris
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted August 30, 2007 03:29 PM |
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Quote:
They both have 100% chance of getting earth and air if they pick all magic schools offered. But Barbarian has a much better chance of getting both first.
Earth Air Water Fire
3 3 0 2 barbarian
3 1 2 0 beastmaster
I agree, but it is not easy to calculate the probabilities at all.
The best answer I can give is this: Assume that no magic school is ever offered "naturally" at basic level, i.e. you will only be offered a new magic school when an exception occurs (the first one is at level 4; you know the rules). Clearly this setup favours Beastmasters because Barbarians have better odds values, and the odds value of the unwanted magic school (fire and water respectively) is the same for both classes.
With this setup the probability that Air and Earth are the first two magic schools offered will be 45% for Barbarians and 27% for Beastmasters. (And as mentioned the setup was in favour of Beastmasters).
But as Binabik mentioned you will be guaranteed Air and Earth eventually if you select every magic skill offered.
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Binabik
Responsible
Legendary Hero
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posted October 08, 2007 11:02 AM |
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I already know what I would do on this one, but I wanted to revive the thread and I'm curious what others think on this. I'm still waiting for someone besides me to post a question.
There is pack dendroid guards, lots grems, pack dendroid soldiers, 2 crypts (you can barely see one by the learning stone). I want to hit all of these with my main, but if there's a good reason to use someone else, that's ok too. I have Pyre and Alkin in the garrison. Which one would you use and why?
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted October 08, 2007 11:09 AM |
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Is the army we can see all you've got? Seems a bit low on gnolls. If u have to hit 2 full crypts, u will prolly lose all army on 2nd.
And about your heroes:
Due to the fact you have quite a weak army, I would go for Alkin doing those fights in the crypts, coz he has offense and armorer, which help a bit there. If Pyre has a balista, do the dendroid fights with her.
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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Binabik
Responsible
Legendary Hero
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posted October 08, 2007 11:27 AM |
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Edited by Binabik at 11:28, 08 Oct 2007.
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I haven't bought town creatures yet. I built flies to make the droids dance, plus I didn't want to risk wyverns when they could only attack one droid with partial health (approx 40-45 damage???).
And yes, Pyre has a balista. You already know I like ballista
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Binabik
Responsible
Legendary Hero
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posted October 08, 2007 11:34 AM |
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End Day 2
I skipped the Crypt, I can get it later. The road block was high priority and I lost too much in the first droid fight because of morales. There was a THIRD droid block a few steps from the second one. I got a nice hat from them.
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liophy
Famous Hero
Bulgarian
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posted October 08, 2007 11:38 AM |
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Edited by liophy at 11:39, 08 Oct 2007.
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Yes, with the first dendroids and if needed the first crypt, Pyre may level up advance balista, wich will help a lot to kill the gremlins without casualties, and than the second dendroids are easy.
And if you dont have more movement with Pyre, you may finish the second crypt with Alkin.
As Angelito - is that all your gnolls? As far as there is no gnolls from Wystan, and from castle there is exactly 12 gnolls, i suppose those 15 gnolls in picture are from Alkin. So the question is - do you have another 12 gnolls in castle? And what about lizards from castle?
And the second interesting thing for me is - what did you buy to spend 2 sulfur? Did you buy serpent fly hive? And if so - why?
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EDIT. My post came a bit too late, after your already answered.
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maretti
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted October 08, 2007 02:53 PM |
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@Binabik: I find this thread very good. If I was still playing I probably would post some questions, but im not. I hope others will though, many ppl have benefited from HC but havent contributed much.
Ill wait a bit with my opinion to let ppl with fewer thousands of hours gameplay have a go.
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Crag rules, Orrin and Ivor suck
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devangle1984
Known Hero
I am the Dark Vader
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posted October 09, 2007 10:07 AM |
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I don't know if im late at this, but if all the heroes were at base lvl, i would have given balista to jenova and the army and attacked the druids with her, she has adv archery and will do more damge vs them and might have lesser casualties too. The only thing about this is that you loose control over the balista, but still will do more damage.(Balista always hits the last stack or the weakest in number always.)
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liophy
Famous Hero
Bulgarian
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posted October 09, 2007 10:32 AM |
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Edited by liophy at 10:33, 09 Oct 2007.
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I dont think Pyre with 27 lizards and balista will have problems with pack druids either.
But its important to level up the balista, so you have the option to make big fights latter. Alkin will do the map from the one side and pyre with expert balista and 2 flies will open the roads to the other side.
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devangle1984
Known Hero
I am the Dark Vader
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posted October 09, 2007 10:36 AM |
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I have not been follwoing this thread fully and just made an assumption that the temp is jebus, in which case leveling up is not a big problem and minimizing the losses to take on more important quests. Although other tightened temps will be another story.
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Binabik
Responsible
Legendary Hero
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posted October 09, 2007 10:41 AM |
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Edited by Binabik at 10:43, 09 Oct 2007.
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Edit: yes this is Jebus on 130 with strong guard.
That's not a bad idea about Jenova. I just tried it. Jenova has 1 less attack but has advanced archery. She did 58-86 damage with lizards compared to 48-72 for Pyre.
Jenova is higher risk though because the lizards run out of shots. The ballista must kill 3-4 droids. With 4-6 damage at full arrow (I prefer half arrow with ballista because of morale) that's a very long time to risk the droids getting morale. Also with control over the ballista and higher attack, Pyre does better with melee attacks.
It's a close call in my opinion.
What do you guys think of Jenova for main? I prefer Pyre or Alkin myself.
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devangle1984
Known Hero
I am the Dark Vader
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posted October 09, 2007 10:48 AM |
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More often than not i don't consider jenova anything more than a usefull scout with 350 gold and adv archery.
Pyre, well i know she is a good hero but i have had bad experiences with her, more often than not she gets fire magic.Thus it makes it a gamble too.On jebus i would use her as a scout and look for a better option.
9/10 i always will go for alkin, starts with lovely skills and his skill tree for me is very promising, he is one of my fav heroes. He is second best to tazar on beastmasters in my veiw.
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devangle1984
Known Hero
I am the Dark Vader
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posted October 09, 2007 10:54 AM |
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Btw i would place lizards at 7th slot, main melee on 6th and so forth with jenova so that they for one exposed to the weaker units, and secondly ur balista and the lazards can more effectlively hit clear up from the weakest units.
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liophy
Famous Hero
Bulgarian
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posted October 09, 2007 10:54 AM |
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Edited by liophy at 10:57, 09 Oct 2007.
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Yes, Jenova could be good only on Balance, providing there is no Ivor or Mephala.
And as far as the choise between Alkin and Pyre - its a close call. Alkin has nice skills, but logistic is very important and you never know when he will get it. And the balista could help you get huge fights week 1, latter it doesnt matter. Expert balista with Pyre could be the difference between fighting the guards to level 7 dwell.
And providing Pyre ALREADY got earth - there is not a lot more to think... Otherwise you may level up them both to 3-4 level and decide.
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Binabik
Responsible
Legendary Hero
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posted October 09, 2007 10:57 AM |
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Edited by Binabik at 11:03, 09 Oct 2007.
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I like both Prye and Alkin. And I don't like any rangers. It seems like I get screwed too often with rangers and have to pick between mysticism and luck or something like that.
What I ended up doing was keeping the starting army plus wyverns with Pyre. I chained the hydra to Alkin on day 5 or 6 I think. Alkin is off road clearing and hitting power ups. Prye is clearing the road which has a lot of blocks in both directions.
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devangle1984
Known Hero
I am the Dark Vader
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posted October 09, 2007 11:02 AM |
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Alkin most times gets the perfcest skill tree, and yes liophy your idea is quite rational. On a personal note; i usually, when starting the game, i look at what i get and start immediatley asign tasks. For example if it is jebus and im in the same situation, i would not worry abt crypts , i clear blocks, save army for dwels, then chain back to crypts at the end of the week. If i see alkin and pyre, id just give a fly to pyre and send her off to take a town and goldmines if they are on the way. Alkin will be collecting boosters. For me all the other 7 heroes is needed for exploration and i stick to my first choice. As i said my experience with pyre is not very pleasent.
But although i do agree with ur rationalisation.
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