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liophy
Famous Hero
Bulgarian
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posted October 09, 2007 11:12 AM |
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Generaly you are right - its not worth it to lose 3-4 turns to level up and decide whos your main in the end of week 1...
But with 2 packs of dendroids in half a turn and a learning stone - you may level Pyre up to 3-4 level pretty easy. If she get good skills - take her for main. As i said, logistic is essential and with combination of earth its perfect. If she get fire or archery - switch to Alkin.
Recently you were talking about breaking on week 1. Pyre with 2 hydras, several slots of flies, 27 or even 45 lizards (dwells) and expert slow and expert balista could be the way to do it.
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devangle1984
Known Hero
I am the Dark Vader
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posted October 09, 2007 11:17 AM |
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well, gurnison with that configuration most definitely and a slower gaurd like hydras. Wk1 breaks are rare as i said, my wk1 break was vs throng pitlords. I was fotress. I used a very simple and effective trick.I had luna on her own powering up and tazar doing his own bouts, i was able to get luna exp fire and 12 to sp i think. It did not take much effort to seriuosly reduce numbers and the tazar cleared up, if i remember right stinger and someone else did it too.
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liophy
Famous Hero
Bulgarian
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posted October 09, 2007 11:23 AM |
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I didnt understand - who was first to weaken the pitlords - Luna probably? and did you sacrifice her, or you escaped in the end?
And did you have mass slow or just 7 slot of flies and probably good terrain with lots of obstacles?
How many you managed to kill with Luna?
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devangle1984
Known Hero
I am the Dark Vader
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posted October 09, 2007 11:26 AM |
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luna escaped, i used 3 slots of flies,i escaped when lords started raising too many demons. I reduced pitlords around 30 if i remember right. Yes there was 1 big obsticle making it easy for me to concentrate the walls , spirit of opresion helped alot too.
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Binabik
Responsible
Legendary Hero
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posted October 09, 2007 11:32 AM |
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Does the AI keep demons when they are raised? I never thought about that before.
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devangle1984
Known Hero
I am the Dark Vader
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posted October 09, 2007 11:51 AM |
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nope, they dissapear after battle
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maretti
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted October 09, 2007 04:24 PM |
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I would only go around the dends with 1 hero and wait with the others to save movement. Then buy 5 heroes, choose Alkin as main and kill the dends with him. He should have no problems killing them with 27 lizards. Then take the crypt with Iona and buy one more hero if I can afford it. Her magic arrow will be usefull. Then beat the grems with the necro hero who has learned magic arrow. Take xp from the chest with Alkin unless its 500 and then go for the learning stone. Let Pyre visit the learning stone and kill the dends day 2, scout and find out where to move Alkin.
I will take Alkin as main day 1 and wont even bother bringing Pyre to lvl 4. Alkin is much better imho. You have lizards prebuild so you can build gorgons week 1, which makes his specialty usefull. Apart from that his magic developement is much better (and garanties the esential air magic) than Pyres and he has 8 in log and pf to Pyres 4 in pf. His off and arm is very usefull and its likely u wont even waste a skill on him. Week 2 Pyres balistiks is allmost a waisted skill.
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Crag rules, Orrin and Ivor suck
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Xarfax111
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
The last hero standing
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posted October 09, 2007 11:52 PM |
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Quote:
I will take Alkin as main day 1 and wont even bother bringing Pyre to lvl 4. Alkin is much better imho. You have lizards prebuild so you can build gorgons week 1, which makes his specialty usefull. Apart from that his magic developement is much better (and garanties the esential air magic) than Pyres and he has 8 in log and pf to Pyres 4 in pf. His off and arm is very usefull and its likely u wont even waste a skill on him. Week 2 Pyres balistiks is allmost a waisted skill.
...ooh all the good analyzing by the members in this thread  i like that ..hope some players will benefit from it, although they may dont understand the reasoning.
First i thought: What!? Go for flies day one? Never! ...but ok its this bad template Jebus Cross ..rich and easy..so flies is best choice.
Then again: What!? Take Alkin over Pyree? ..ah ok, its a prebuilt and rich Jebus, therefore you can built Moos week one.. ah ok i get it.
On i good template like the original Blockbuster (not the s*cking current one), i would NEVER made such choices.
Btw. i wouldnt carry the artefacts on Pyrre..all of them are useless for her...but who cares, its Jebus (anything goes, no strategy needed).
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liophy
Famous Hero
Bulgarian
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posted October 10, 2007 12:05 AM |
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3 pages of reasonable arguments over the actions needed just the first day and you say no strategy needed!!!
What a wise conclusion...
By the way Xarfax - could you tell me what was the outcome of your game agaist the player of Heroes.by? Did it actually happen? And if not - why?
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Xarfax111
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
The last hero standing
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posted October 10, 2007 01:12 AM |
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Quote:
3 pages of reasonable arguments over the actions needed just the first day and you say no strategy needed!!!
What a wise conclusion...
By the way Xarfax - could you tell me what was the outcome of your game agaist the player of Heroes.by? Did it actually happen? And if not - why?
..eeerm a bit of a misunderstanding here, i wrote:
"ooh all the good analyzing by the members in this thread i like that"
And i mean that word by word...very good analyses, including yours!
The thing is that i would like to read those analyses on a template/map that worth it. You might have to admit that Jebus is not really strategically challenging (too rich and too easy).
To my game:
I started it but with all that rules AND 6 MINUTEs TURNS, that turned into 30 minutes per turn on a BORING and easy template of Jebus i was literatelly BORED TO DEATH (even more then that). Additional to this i got an impression of a very inpolite opponent, which made this game a WASTE OF TIME...so i surrendered on day 3.
I think i would have enjoyed a game against Angelito, Binabik and Maretti and some others a hundred times more, then against such a rule hugger (he found the gap in the rules = Wyvernhoarding).
They think they can play?!? Well, they chose town and heroes..lol...nough said..lol. This game is about play-what-you-get (McGuyver) and not rule-out-so-i-can-win.
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liophy
Famous Hero
Bulgarian
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posted October 10, 2007 10:24 AM |
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The topic tend to go to "is jebus easy and boring".
There is as many oppinions as are the players. But the odd fact is, non of the people that hate jebus have beat me even over other template. And i am even not the best player... This must mean something...
This was discused in another thread, but i will post it again:
With simple and very few specific rules jebus could turn out to be one of the most balanced templetes ever.
No more than 1 level 7 dwelling and no upgrades from cons/hives (wich actualy is standart) works for me.
About wheather its easy - playing with 8 heroes from day one just could not be easy. There are several times higher chance to mess up your chaining.
Fighting hives with just one angel could not be easy. Fighting pack naga queens with 1 angel could not be easy.
Breaking on day 12 thruogh 50 level 7 guards could not be easy.
And about the money - yes, there are enough money to buy 8 heroes. But are there enough money to upgrade Angels day 8-9? In order to do that you need to do some thing asap - open all roads, which may be heavily blocked, give all scouts fast units and decide how many fights you do for money and how many fights for developing the main hero.
So in conclusion - i just cant possibly see how Jebus is easy.
About boring - thats even more hilarious. Jebus is the ONE templete where you can have all the elements of the game. Things, that are almost forgoten on other templetes.
For instance - in my last game i assambled elexir of life with Inferno LOL. I had 4 imp dwellings and 3 dungeon towns. Trogs were 10 hp, Imps 9. Imagine the damon farming....
The interesting thing is my opponent was still going to beat me if he was fast enough. But he get a bit too late and it was over. So its just could not be more interesting!
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted October 10, 2007 11:34 AM |
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This is not a topic about jebus template in general, or how honorable some players act in team games when they represent a community.
This is a thread about a specific game situation posted by binabik (currently the only one), and the question: What would YOU do?
Some would answer: I would leave the game at day 2, coz I recognized it is Jebus template and this is just too easy and doesn't need any strategy.
Other would answer: I would do this and that coz of this and that, and later I would also do this and that coz of this and that.
Answers like the second one are the ones we are looking for, the first ones don't contribute anything, so please stay away from such replies.
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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maretti
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted October 10, 2007 12:54 PM |
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@Devmania: Why would u use Jenova to kill the dends? Why not give Alkin that xp? Speed 3 units against 27 lizards.
Would u really give the balista to Pyre instead of giving it to Alkin? She cant beat any shooters or units with speed 6 and more anyway. You can take the towns with magic heroes. Why not make ur main army as strong as possible? Allthough the balista does very little damage on Alkin, it can take alot of beating.
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Crag rules, Orrin and Ivor suck
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liophy
Famous Hero
Bulgarian
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posted October 10, 2007 01:45 PM |
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Giving balista to main hero is pretty wise thing. Even if it doesnt deal great damage the benefit is to lurk the enemy.
250 HP with defence 10 can withstand a lot of beating. And before that, providing your shooters are faster than the enemy, they can run on safe distance and shoot unbothered.
Or while taking level 7 dwelling even if you have only single level 7 unit against 2 level 7 units, you may wait several round for the balista to weaken the guard and than finish it off. The guards will hit the balista instead your single level 7 unit, which will save your life. And your entire game
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maretti
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted October 10, 2007 01:55 PM |
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@Xarfax: If u find jebus so bad, why did u choose it? In a tournament like that u gotta expect ppl will try to play their best. Playing well takes time, especially on jebus with 8 heroes. It shouldnt come as a surprise.
Personally I regret picking jebus. With the russians so fond of dungeon I should have gone with balance. If the russian would choose dungeon I could get stronghold or inferno with red which I believe would have given me better odds than the jebus game. Unfortunatly I cant change that now.
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Crag rules, Orrin and Ivor suck
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devangle1984
Known Hero
I am the Dark Vader
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posted October 10, 2007 02:21 PM |
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First things first, i know the commenting on a certain person is over and that i agree with dirk on this, but still i feel what binabik said makes so much meaning. There is no point in someone highlighting things as an easy template, wayvern gathering and then does not even try finishing it. I would have taught a vetren knows tat 5 min turns never happens in any template!BB is not the most balance template nor the most challenging either.Try marathon or e2, oh but wait, warning takes a long time
@ Anders, when i said i would usualy give pyre a flie and send him off to take a town casue in most cases,becasue its not easy for stronghold or fotress to find inoa with arrow and scholor to teach other mages and send them off to take other towns and thus this would be another alternative. Once this job is done, then the balista will be chained back to main, but unless i feel the fights my main will do will not require it.
Generally i dont't do all initial fights with main, specially on this temp, 9/10 u will find atleast 1 pandoras box to give the start u need, and the exp gathering will pick up end of the week most definitely. This bit could be a flaw in me to think like this, please do correct me if iam wrong on this method.
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maretti
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted October 10, 2007 02:36 PM |
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Well in this case I believe u are wrong. U dont even have to move 1 single step away from the road to give ur main around 800 xp. There is no reson not to do that.
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Crag rules, Orrin and Ivor suck
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devangle1984
Known Hero
I am the Dark Vader
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posted October 10, 2007 02:42 PM |
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yes i think you are right again!! he he , well your point is taken.I think onbe of the ways i can improve my game could be to pay attention to deatail.Thanks
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Xarfax111
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
The last hero standing
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posted October 10, 2007 10:13 PM |
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Well, pretty easy ...i mentioned the Template, cause on this Template you play else then on a more difficult template. The viewer of this advices in this thread needs to know,
- why he choose flies over wyvern
- Alkin over Pyrree
- 8 to 9 Heroes on day one
- try to build Moos instead Hydra and no castle walls...
...and and and and...
Like on Templates like Blockbuster u simply cant buy 8 heroes on 160%, or I would take Pyrre always over Alkin and you need to built Wyvern bevore flies and stuff...
I dont know why you see it that negative: Everyone else can say that Jebus is a VERY RICH template and the starting sequenze IS VERY easy -except me! But if i mention that im the bad-mannered-wanna-be-show-off-veteran.
A rich and easy template does not need to much strategic thinking ..on template were you have to be a McGuyver and you need to handle the things you get, strategy beginns.
So if the question is: What would you do? ..i wrote that peeps made the right strategic decisions. And that Pyree shouldnt carry the artefacts in a more challenging game...on this template it wont have any influence to the outcome.
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devangle1984
Known Hero
I am the Dark Vader
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posted October 11, 2007 05:36 AM |
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@ Xarfax111
1)I would take Pyre always over Alkin - i presume you read this post well and as you saw maretti alrdy gave an explanation why alkin is a more wise option. The other one is the fact that pyre has a very high chance of getting fire offered than air or earth.
2)you need to built Wyvern bevore flies and stuff - you mean you would take wavs to fight the dends than flies? hmm, this tactic will be disasterous in any temp!! The lizards need a unit that can dance with high speed not a tank, 2 wavs are not much of a tank either and if dends morale, ur loses would be more fatal than loosing a few flies.Plus flies are important from day one for scout speed, build it later would result in hassle of givin a flie to scout and so on
3) A rich and easy template does not need to much strategic thinking - well if you see the situation posted above, the solution does not really matter if the temp is blockbuster or jebus. It just asks what you would do in that situation.Even if the temp was balance, jebus or your precious bb.
4) Try to build moos instead of hydra and castle walls - i taught it was mentioned that lizards were pre built, thus there is a possibility that gorons can be built too, not sacrificing your normal build up!
5)A rich and easy template does not need to much strategic thinking - to be honest it is very clear that you can't play even an easy template as this as u mentioned, i wonder how you would do in more astute temps?
Finally: if i mention that im the bad-mannered-wanna-be-show-off-veteran - on a personal note i seriously doubt that you are a vetren, a vetren knows what they talk about and appretiate the strategies involved in any temp or situation. U have the book knowledge about heroes, atleast it seems like it, on gameplay though, i seriously doubt it.
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