Heroes of Might and Magic Community
visiting hero! Register | Today's Posts | Games | Search! | FAQ/Rules | AvatarList | MemberList | Profile


Age of Heroes Headlines:  
5 Oct 2016: Heroes VII development comes to an end.. - read more
6 Aug 2016: Troubled Heroes VII Expansion Release - read more
26 Apr 2016: Heroes VII XPack - Trial by Fire - Coming out in June! - read more
17 Apr 2016: Global Alternative Creatures MOD for H7 after 1.8 Patch! - read more
7 Mar 2016: Romero launches a Piano Sonata Album Kickstarter! - read more
19 Feb 2016: Heroes 5.5 RC6, Heroes VII patch 1.7 are out! - read more
13 Jan 2016: Horn of the Abyss 1.4 Available for Download! - read more
17 Dec 2015: Heroes 5.5 update, 1.6 out for H7 - read more
23 Nov 2015: H7 1.4 & 1.5 patches Released - read more
31 Oct 2015: First H7 patches are out, End of DoC development - read more
5 Oct 2016: Heroes VII development comes to an end.. - read more
[X] Remove Ads
LOGIN:     Username:     Password:         [ Register ]
HOMM1: info forum | HOMM2: info forum | HOMM3: info mods forum | HOMM4: info CTG forum | HOMM5: info mods forum | MMH6: wiki forum | MMH7: wiki forum
Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: Reparations
Thread: Reparations This thread is 3 pages long: 1 2 3 · NEXT»
mvassilev
mvassilev


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted July 25, 2007 03:12 PM

Reparations

I was watching the Democratic debate yesterday, and one person asked, "Is black people gonna get reparations for slavery?" All of the intelligent candidates replied in the negative. Kucinich, however, said that he was for reparations.

Wow.

How can anyone be for reparations? Why should the government reward someone's descendants for something that happened to their ancestors?
____________
Eccentric Opinion

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
SwampLord
SwampLord


Supreme Hero
Lord of the Swamp
posted July 25, 2007 03:18 PM

Like that will ever happen. How do you decide how much money someone gets? And I agree that it's ridiculous. It's over and done with, everyone is already taught how bad slavery is. Reparations are just completely ridiculous.
____________
They can take my swamp, they can take my town, but they will never take my FREEDOM!

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Setitetart
Setitetart


Known Hero
Reality check....
posted July 25, 2007 04:02 PM

Quote:
How can anyone be for reparations? Why should the government reward someone's descendants for something that happened to their ancestors?


I am probably going to catch a ridiculous amount of flack for this...
BUT
I would say it depends on the situation.

For example:

For black slavery...no...I don't think they should get reparations for anything, at least NOT from the American government, seeing as how it was THEIR people that SOLD them more often than not in the first place. It wasn't like whites came over and just raided the place.
There were more powerful black men, businessmen if you will for lack of a better term, doing the selling of their own brothers.
If people who are descendants of slaves want to take it up with someone....I think they should be trucking over to Africa to take it up with the descendants of who sold them.

In the matter of reparations for people murdered during the Holocaust...YES.
I believe the German government should be held accountable since Jews and anyone else that ended up in the camps were pilfered and looted before they were sent off to die.
Jews weren't sold to the camps, they were forced to go...and for some reason I think that makes a difference in whether or not they should get some kind of reparation.
____________
"Do you think we should drive a stake through his heart, just in case?"
~ Peter Lorre to Vincent Price at Bela Lugosi's funeral

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | PP | Quote Reply | Link
mvassilev
mvassilev


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted July 25, 2007 04:31 PM
Edited by mvassilev at 04:15, 26 Jul 2007.

Quote:
If people who are descendants of slaves want to take it up with someone....I think they should be trucking over to Africa to take it up with the descendants of who sold them.


I don't agree with you here. I don't think that the descendants of people should suffer for what their ancestors did. And I don't think that people should be rewarded for the suffering of their ancestors.

Quote:
In the matter of reparations for people murdered during the Holocaust...YES.
I believe the German government should be held accountable since Jews and anyone else that ended up in the camps were pilfered and looted before they were sent off to die.


Well, in this case, the situation is different. I believe that Holocaust survivors should get reparations, but I don't think their children or grandchildren should get anything of the sort.
____________
Eccentric Opinion

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
violent_flower
violent_flower


Promising
Supreme Hero
Almost there.
posted July 25, 2007 05:00 PM

African people have been sold as slaves within their own continent for years. They buy and sell there own; so then who is responsible for the reparation and who should receive it? You could argue that the actual slaves that were bought and sold here in the U.S. for the most part are dead.

So then you have to figure out how much did it repress the remainder of their family? This is hard to measure, but I do feel that maybe it is worth looking into. One the other hand they sold there own off, we did not just go over there and start kicking them into the water and demanding them to cook us a pot pie.

South Africa still uses slaves including child slaves. You could argue that we paid outright of them, there are still records that still exist, such as ship manifest; to show us what we paid for them. But these are people that we are referring to, and it makes me sick to think about one of my children becoming someone’s slave.

Holocaust victims, the German government should have to bend over for the victims. Without a doubt there should be some reparation there.    

____________
Learn how to duck and weave because I will throw truth at you all day!

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Consis
Consis


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
posted July 25, 2007 06:11 PM
Edited by Consis at 18:14, 25 Jul 2007.

Eh.....Nobody Likes Talking About This

~There are people such as myself who would not vote for a black candidate (as of yet) for president for this very reason. Even now people are coming forward to demand recompense for it. Myself and others believe if a black candidate were to become president then this movement would gain recognition and momentum. I have done a good deal of research on the matter and it hadn't even arisen as a concern of mine until I saw President Bill Clinton apologize for slavery in San Diego. From that point on I decided that I will not yield any vote for one single penny in reparations for black slavery in the United States of America. The only candidate I've seen that would never even consider such a ridiculous notion is Gen. Collin Powell. He is my only possibility of black candidates thus far. The others I have seen thus far do not do enough to oppose playing the race card in politics.

~The matter of "holocaust"-(not a legal term) reparations are entirely different. All the talk in this thread (that I have seen thus far) regarding it seems ill-informed. Based on what I know of post-WWII I'd say enough has been done. Any futher discussion on the issue of holocaust reparations I wholeheartedly defer to the sentiments of Pope John Paul II. I fully endorse his position on this matter.
____________
Roses Are RedAnd So Am I

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | PP | Quote Reply | Link
SwampLord
SwampLord


Supreme Hero
Lord of the Swamp
posted July 25, 2007 06:40 PM

If there are Holocaust reparations, they should only be to survivors. But like throwing someone in prison for 20 years by mistake, how do you ever fully repay someone for what you've done?
____________
They can take my swamp, they can take my town, but they will never take my FREEDOM!

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Setitetart
Setitetart


Known Hero
Reality check....
posted July 25, 2007 06:44 PM

Quote:
~There are people such as myself who would not vote for a black candidate (as of yet) for president for this very reason.


I am just going to leave that one alone.

Quote:
~The matter of "holocaust"-(not a legal term)


What everyone should know it is the Shoah? What do you mean NOT the "legal" term? i suppose even having a fully Jewish Father in Law and a husban well versed in those roots...no one's ever mentioned a "legal" term for the Holocaust.
Anyway....

Quote:
reparations are entirely different. All the talk in this thread (that I have seen thus far) regarding it seems ill-informed. Based on what I know of post-WWII I'd say enough has been done.


So sorry I dont think enough could ever really be DONE to make any of what happened there right. NO amount of money, NO amount of apology.

Quote:
Any futher discussion on the issue of holocaust reparations I wholeheartedly defer to the sentiments of Pope John Paul II. I fully endorse his position on this matter.


Which part of His Holiness' sentiments are you referring to?
In case you weren't aware he had A LOT to say about the Holocaust.
____________
"Do you think we should drive a stake through his heart, just in case?"
~ Peter Lorre to Vincent Price at Bela Lugosi's funeral

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | PP | Quote Reply | Link
mvassilev
mvassilev


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted July 25, 2007 07:29 PM

Quote:
~There are people such as myself who would not vote for a black candidate (as of yet) for president for this very reason.


Well, it's time you found out that Obama is AGAINST reparations. The only person for them is Kucinich, and he has something wrong with him (he's also against free trade). And even if Obama was for them, he wouldn't get any, because none of his ancestors were American slaves (his father is from Kenya, and his mother is white).
____________
Eccentric Opinion

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
violent_flower
violent_flower


Promising
Supreme Hero
Almost there.
posted July 25, 2007 08:04 PM

Quote:
There are people such as myself who would not vote for a black candidate (as of yet) for president for this very reason.


Thank you MV, you got to it before me. Consis, a white candidate would be more likely to enforce this then a black one, just to hall in more votes from the African Americans. As MV stated, you really need to do your homework before shooting off at the mouth about that.

Do you even know where Obama stands on the issue? Do you have any idea of how racist that makes you sound?

So you would not vote for a German guy because of the Holocaust and what he may do to compensate his people? A female, for fear she would reform our country into treating us fairly and giving women the same wage as a man, (oh wait, thats right, you live off your wifes paycheck, you may want to vote in that direction.) A Black Foot for the fear that they may want to take their land back that we ripped out from underneath of them? How about a Irish guy who smokes pot, because he might promote drinking and rolling a blunt during study hall.

Come on Consis, this is ridiculous to even state.    
____________
Learn how to duck and weave because I will throw truth at you all day!

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
baklava
baklava


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
posted July 25, 2007 08:16 PM

About the ridiculous the black people sell black people argument.
Black people are also divided in peoples. They're not all simply "the Black people. Blackians." Saying how black people who were enslaved shouldn't be compensated later just because black people sold them is like saying:
"Jews are white. Germans were white too. Germans killed them. So none of them should get compensation."
Would that make sense to you?
I understand that to most white peoples all the black peoples are same, which is the genetical imperialistic remaining from their ancestors I guess. But you should get over that if you really fight for equal rights and against racism.

Whether today's African Americans would accept a simple fistful of dollars for century-long suffering of their people, is another issue.

So perhaps it's best without the compensation anyway. Forgiveness cannot be bought; and even if it could, it can't erase the stains in history.
____________
"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Corribus
Corribus

Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
posted July 25, 2007 08:26 PM

I'm sure that somewhere in my ancestry I was related to a slave.  Maybe the Romans enslaved a long-dead ancestor of mine, a good possibility since I have Anglosaxon and German ancestors.  Should Italy pay me reparations?   The Catholic Church killed a lot of people during the inquisition.  Definitely I should get some money from the Catholic Church, because I'm sure I can trace part of my ancestry there.  My grand-father was wounded in World War II.  Shouldn't the Germans and Japanese have to give me some money?

History is what it is: history.  It's ridiculous to expect people to pay you for the transgressions of 150 years ago.  Slavery sucked, but it was a part of our history.  For better or worse, it shaped our current world.  Deal with that, move on and get over it.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
violent_flower
violent_flower


Promising
Supreme Hero
Almost there.
posted July 25, 2007 08:30 PM

Bak, forgiveness can not be bought, however if there was going to be a number placed on the value of how slavery oppressed the population as whole, well I would then have to really do some research on it.

Do I think they should be compensated? I think that the owners should be punished, I think that if the slaves from then were still alive and came forth wanting compensation, it would be worth looking into. Do I think we should hand over money to a slaves eighteen year old great great grandson for what his GG grandfather went through? No!

Do I think what Consis said was out of lack of understanding and  racist? Yes!
____________
Learn how to duck and weave because I will throw truth at you all day!

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
SwampLord
SwampLord


Supreme Hero
Lord of the Swamp
posted July 25, 2007 09:04 PM

Please, let's not start another fight. It was questionable, but I also believe that reparation is a bad idea. Basically, most of the people who would be repayed probably don't even know  or in some cases, care what the full extent of what their ancestors went through. They'd just want the money. That's why it's a bad idea to compensate anyone who was not directly harmed by the event. (i.e. Holocaust survivors.)
____________
They can take my swamp, they can take my town, but they will never take my FREEDOM!

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
violent_flower
violent_flower


Promising
Supreme Hero
Almost there.
posted July 25, 2007 09:07 PM

Swampy, don't be to sensitive to the arguing, we know how to keep under control but thanks for the concern and I somewhat agree with you...
____________
Learn how to duck and weave because I will throw truth at you all day!

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Binabik
Binabik


Responsible
Legendary Hero
posted July 25, 2007 09:20 PM

Like most money giveaway programs, it's just another method of buying votes.

Like Corribus said, we probably all have slave blood in us from the distant past. This is a total guess, but my guess is that of all races, blacks have actually had the least number of slaves in history.

I would say this is all a moot discussion because there's no way it will really happen. But just in my lifetime I've seen too many things like this that people don't take seriously because "it'll never happen".  Then it very slowly gains momentum and a few decades later it becomes reality. Many of the things that are commonplace today and considered primary political or social issues would never have been seriously considered when I was young.

So I’m highly reluctant to just write off this sort of thing.  The very fact that most people think it’s ridiculous is why they don’t pay attention.  While very slowly the issue gains momentum in the background when nobody is looking.  Then somebody makes enough noise that it becomes a real issue, even if still highly unlikely.  But they make it enough of an issue that people actually talk about it.  Television does reports about it.  People take sides.  Then the people who support the issue apply a term to it, in this case “racism”.  If you don’t support the issue you are a “racist”.  Then people run in mass from that designatio....nobody wants to be labeled a “racist”.  By this point any logic or common sense becomes irrelevant, it’s strictly a race issue now.  And of course the reparations (or whatever the issue is) end up happening.

This same pattern has happened with many issues and I have no doubt it will continue to happen.


 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
violent_flower
violent_flower


Promising
Supreme Hero
Almost there.
posted July 25, 2007 10:34 PM

Not being someones friend that is colored is no different then not voting for them because then are colored. I won't be friends with a colored because I'm afraid they may lynch me in the middle of the night, because of what my GG grandfather did to them. Do you see how I have read it?

You vote for someone because of what they have to offer, what they bring to the table as a whole, not because of what they might do because of history alone. Not to mention again he does not even know how Obama feels about it, instead he just shoots off at the knowledgeableness mouth. That was wordy. .

 

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Setitetart
Setitetart


Known Hero
Reality check....
posted July 25, 2007 10:54 PM
Edited by Setitetart at 22:56, 25 Jul 2007.

It really depends on the situations and who's asking for the reparations...doesnt it?

I am not against the idea, but let's get realistic here shall we?

I am woman, and women as a whole have been bought sold discriminated against, hell we didnt even get the right to vote here until...1920?
(On August 26, a constitutional amendment is adopted when Tennessee ratifies it, granting full woman suffrage in all states of the United States.)
When countries all over the world had already allowed their women to vote.

Should I expect that because women down the line of my family were treated as property and whatnot...that I should expect some kind of reparation for that? LOL

Sounds ridiculous right?

I think so too.

I think the ideal of reparation should be on a largely individual basis, and with proper "proof" if you will, in hand.

Do I think that every black american should get paid for something that didnt happen to them...No.
Do I think some might be entitled to reparation...perhaps.

Same thing with the remaining Holocaust surviviors, I truly believe that they should get something for what they went through...

But I really think I should stress that I am for it being a INDIVIDUAL basis type thing...

does that make sense or am I going to have to rephrase that? LOL

BUT...I also agree with this statement...

Quote:
So perhaps it's best without the compensation anyway. Forgiveness cannot be bought; and even if it could, it can't erase the stains in history.


How true that is.

____________
"Do you think we should drive a stake through his heart, just in case?"
~ Peter Lorre to Vincent Price at Bela Lugosi's funeral

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | PP | Quote Reply | Link
violent_flower
violent_flower


Promising
Supreme Hero
Almost there.
posted July 25, 2007 11:08 PM
Edited by violent_flower at 00:35, 26 Jul 2007.

Whatever Porn Star...

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Consis
Consis


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
posted July 26, 2007 02:48 AM
Edited by Consis at 02:49, 26 Jul 2007.

Violent_Flower,

Again I'm being accused of the same thing. If you think the things I say are racist then you need to do some more travelling in this country. Go ahead and continue to surmise my racial intentions. With such quality intel, you might consider invading a foreign ancient middle eastern islamic country. Perhaps you'll find the truth of my real feelings buried next to a weapon of mass destruction.
____________
Roses Are RedAnd So Am I

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | PP | Quote Reply | Link
Jump To: « Prev Thread . . . Next Thread » This thread is 3 pages long: 1 2 3 · NEXT»
Post New Poll    Post New Topic    Post New Reply

Page compiled in 0.0488 seconds