|
| Thread: Is fortresss overpowered |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 · «PREV |
|
Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
|
posted January 07, 2008 05:10 PM |
|
Edited by Elvin at 17:11, 07 Jan 2008.
|
Skirmishers you'll never upgrade early because they cost crystal  Most of the job is done by the shieldguards anyway.
Berserkers you should NEVER EVER take for creeping. If you ever upgrade them early.
You have obviously never seen inquisitors What overpowered, you'll get them by week 4 but even if you took them earlier they would not be of much help. Their upgrades are good for when you manage to get them
Warlords and high initiative does not compute.
Creeping is clearing the neutrals for the first 2 weeks, maybe 3 if the map has many of them. It is afterwards that you get upgrades.
7 cavaliers week 2  Try lots of nightmares on week 1 with shieldguards only.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
|
|
InfernoX880
Promising
Famous Hero
|
|
posted January 07, 2008 09:21 PM |
|
|
If you compare Fortress to other factions though, they are at a disadvantage. They lack the strategy necessary to win without suffering casualties. While I will admit that upgraded Defenders in high number excedding 100 by Week 2 are useful, what good are they when in week 2 you sometimes need go up against 60 Squires or 40 Master Hunters? They have some nice creeping strategies, but in some cases, when there is a certain creature guarding a mine, you know you're screwed.
And the final problem is the expensive late game regarding Crystals. Clan Halls should be changed to Gems because you need a total of 35 Crystals to get tier 5,6 and 7 dwellings! I understand most factions will be that expensive but think of it this way:
-If you are paying 10 of every precious resource for a building, and you have one of every generator, you will get your resources back in 10 days.
-If you pay 30 of one precious resource, it takes 30 days to get back your expense.
So they are at a disadvantage unless they can produce large amounts of Crystal in the early game. And while their early game is nice, a Heroic AI attacks you with at least a Tier 5 or 6, if not better, so you won't likely be prepared. You'll need fortune to survive (fortune being good luck with loose resources).
|
|
ElectricBunny
Known Hero
Pimp My Box
|
|
posted January 12, 2008 12:25 PM |
|
|
Quote:
If you compare Fortress to other factions though, they are at a disadvantage. They lack the strategy necessary to win without suffering casualties. While I will admit that upgraded Defenders in high number excedding 100 by Week 2 are useful, what good are they when in week 2 you sometimes need go up against 60 Squires or 40 Master Hunters? They have some nice creeping strategies, but in some cases, when there is a certain creature guarding a mine, you know you're screwed.
And the final problem is the expensive late game regarding Crystals. Clan Halls should be changed to Gems because you need a total of 35 Crystals to get tier 5,6 and 7 dwellings! I understand most factions will be that expensive but think of it this way:
-If you are paying 10 of every precious resource for a building, and you have one of every generator, you will get your resources back in 10 days.
-If you pay 30 of one precious resource, it takes 30 days to get back your expense.
So they are at a disadvantage unless they can produce large amounts of Crystal in the early game. And while their early game is nice, a Heroic AI attacks you with at least a Tier 5 or 6, if not better, so you won't likely be prepared. You'll need fortune to survive (fortune being good luck with loose resources).
I agree. However, if you play The Town of Miracles, theres 3 crystal mines in the immediate vicinity. Which means that its actually quite easy to get high tier troops early on. Hope this helps
____________
|
|
InfernoX880
Promising
Famous Hero
|
|
posted January 12, 2008 05:31 PM |
|
|
I've run a test on Dragon Pass map playing against Heroic AI and at least in that map, Fortress is NOT overpowered. I got totally destroyed. I think it was around month 2 when I had 2 Fire Dragons, 6 Priests, 12 Brawlers, 30 Whitebear Riders, 100 Skirmishers and 200 Defenders (alternative ones). Now my enemy comes at me with 4 Emerald Dragons and a lot of everything else. How can I top that?
There needs to be some strategy to playing with the Dwarves but I just can't see it. The total lack of Crystals will make Clan Halls a bad investment, even if you're getting 2 a day (resource silo). On few maps you be be able to get some extra Crystal Mines but that's a few maps. A truly balanced game allows for victories in any situation.
EDIT: I just read the Strategies to the HOF Fortress faction when Fortress first came out. There wre some interesting comments, mostly negative. The general essence remains the same. Once it was 20 Gems to get Thanes. Now it's 20 Crystals. That's not better, that's a lot worse, especially since you'll probably get Fire Dragons first and then spend one Crystal on them.
Basically, playing Fortress results in nigh-impossible chances of victory on Hard and Heroic. It's just way too difficult. The extreme amount of Crystals, thus the delay in higher tier units will put you very far behind in the late game. It's just too expensive.
Hopefully, in Patch 3.1, the Clan Halls (Thanes) dwelling cost will look more like this:
10 Gems, 10 Crystals, 4000 Gold
or
15 Gems, 4000 Gold
Both would make gameplay somewhat easier but still extremely difficult. Other changes that would have to be made would be to make Tier 4 dwelling cheaper and the Brawlers themselves a bit stronger. In this way, one could build dwelings 1-4, capture the resource mines and still be behind by a lot, but at least have a fighting chance in the late game.
There is also the factor of rare Logistics. That puts you way behind. You need to be able to move around your lands in the early game. If you can't everything the opponent can already do twice faster than you will be done thrice faster than you. I would recommend making Logistics way easier to get.
Sorry to say this, but there is no real way to do good with Fortress. And every other faction has a "I'm bored, I think I'll beat Heroic mode easily" strategy. Fortress doesn't. I hpoe that will change.
|
|
Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
|
|
posted January 12, 2008 06:16 PM |
|
|
I think it's time to accept that heroic difficulty is NOT balanced. The game was designed with hard difficulty in mind.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
|
|
TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
|
|
posted January 12, 2008 06:33 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Basically, playing Fortress results in nigh-impossible chances of victory on Hard and Heroic. It's just way too difficult. The extreme amount of Crystals, thus the delay in higher tier units will put you very far behind in the late game. It's just too expensive.
I beg to differ. What do you think creeping is used for? Get some crystal piles and you're set (of course there's also a tiny chance that ALL the piles are something else, but hey random is always imba).
Creeping with Fortress is amazingly simple, because they can take absolutely anything easy, including powerful shooters or creatures with high initiative -- this is of course because of the Shieldguards. And besides, there ain't a lot of abuses required, so it's easier, and this is a bonus too (in fact, my opinion is that the OTHER factions shouldn't be able to do those abuses, hence why I think not-many-abuses-needed-Fortress is overpowered  ).
but that's just me.
|
|
okrane
Famous Hero
|
|
posted January 12, 2008 09:13 PM |
|
|
Funny Creeping with Fortress:
Replays
|
|
InfernoX880
Promising
Famous Hero
|
|
posted January 12, 2008 09:23 PM |
|
|
Creeping with Fortress is not difficult, and I never said it was. It's easy enough to get a lot of Defenders, then upgrade them and Whitebear Riders come in really quick as well.
The problem comes in the late game, when you will be left in the dust of your enemy as he assembles armies of Tier 7 creatures and you are struggling to get Priests. It's a difficulty.
@Elvin
You are absolutely right. That's why AI cheats.
|
|
Anakrom
Known Hero
(Scroll) Out of the blue
|
|
posted January 12, 2008 11:11 PM |
|
Edited by Anakrom at 23:13, 12 Jan 2008.
|
Quote:
Basically, playing Fortress results in nigh-impossible chances of victory on Hard and Heroic.
Actually, Hard difficulity is quite playable - I never lost a game against AI. But Heroic is another story, Fortress is, as you said, too resource dependant. Maybe you made a little mistake - never build priest dwelling if you are short on Crystals. Priests arenīt key unit, and 5 Crystals are way too much. I usually head for Crystal mine asap + Dwarves donīt have problems with gold, so Resourse Silo helps too. But anyway, I donīt get these "Overpowered" topics. Fortress is faction as any other, and have its powers and weaknesses.
@Elvin
Absolutely my words, I agree.
|
|
DarkShadow
Legendary Hero
Cerise Princess
|
|
posted January 13, 2008 09:47 AM |
|
|
Quote:
Quote:
Basically, playing Fortress results in nigh-impossible chances of victory on Hard and Heroic.
Actually, Hard difficulity is quite playable - I never lost a game against AI. But Heroic is another story, Fortress is, as you said, too resource dependant. Maybe you made a little mistake - never build priest dwelling if you are short on Crystals. Priests arenīt key unit, and 5 Crystals are way too much. I usually head for Crystal mine asap + Dwarves donīt have problems with gold, so Resourse Silo helps too. But anyway, I donīt get these "Overpowered" topics. Fortress is faction as any other, and have its powers and weaknesses.
@Elvin
Absolutely my words, I agree.
blame the runes.
|
|
ElectricBunny
Known Hero
Pimp My Box
|
|
posted January 13, 2008 05:28 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Warlords and high initiative does not compute.
What do you mean? They have like 12 which is good enough, plus they act quite early. You should check your answers more
____________
|
|
Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
|
|
posted January 13, 2008 06:20 PM |
|
|
You are sadly mistaken, it's 10 which means that almost all other units will have moved to avoid a multiple combo. And they are called thunder thanes now. You should check your answers more
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
|
|
Lepastur
Known Hero
The Red Taskmaster
|
|
posted January 14, 2008 10:56 AM |
|
Edited by Lepastur at 10:59, 14 Jan 2008.
|
Quote:
You are sadly mistaken, it's 10 which means that almost all other units will have moved to avoid a multiple combo.
Yes, and making the things easier for a massive charge rune attack, and somethings even the rune is not necessary, so they can use another better one And up to the I point I've played, Thanes move so fast sometimes on the ATB, so you cannot avoid them sometimes.
____________
Torre de Marfil Foro / Portal - La Comunidad
hispana más completa sobre la saga Might&Magic.
|
|
Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
|
|
posted January 14, 2008 12:38 PM |
|
|
Thanes are a bit better on initiative but you should still be able to move a good number of your units to avoid multiple stormstrikes.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
|
|
sith_of_ziost
Promising
Supreme Hero
Scouting the Multiverse
|
|
posted January 15, 2008 01:37 AM |
|
|
Thanes are merely swift. They aren't fast, nor are they slow. Depends on whether the enemy, however unlikely, has Swift of Mind AND a Haste Spell, you can pretty easily avoid the Storm Strike. Whats sad is if ya target an Obsidian Garg. Immune to Lighting + Thunder Thane =  .
And whoever said blame the runes, you might as well say blame the Blood Rage if an Executioner gets to you. Or blame Raise Dead against the Undead. Runes merely are the most versatile spells to extend the Dwarves defense to equal their slowness.
____________
Steel Yourself for War
Next Set: Mirrodin
Beseiged
|
| |
|
|
