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| Thread: Sumoning magic needs some changes |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · «PREV |
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dschingi
Famous Hero
the guy with the dragon golem
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posted August 21, 2007 03:06 PM |
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Edited by dschingi at 15:08, 21 Aug 2007.
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People often overlook the potential of this spell, imo. At Expert mastery, Fist of Wrath does 10 x Power + 50 damage. Eldritch Arrow does 8 x Power + 72. For anybody with Power > 11 (and w/o Empowered Spells), Fist Of Wrath will actually do more damage than Eldritch Arrow.
With its high base damage Eldritch Arrow is great in early game. Destructive users get more damaging spells in higher levels, while Summoning only has Firewall as another direct damage spell. Seeing that gap of direct damage spells, it fits for the Fist to have less base damage but a higher spell power multiplier in order to be useful in later game, too. The problem is that it isn't  The damage is too low for middle to late game, and as said it's definitely too low for early game. I rarely use it for anything else than golems with Mark of the Wizard, often the direct hero damage does even more than a single fist.
Besides compare it to fire trap. They both have the same damage at expert level, with the difference that the trap can potentially deal 8 times the damage that the fist can...
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I also would like a skill that lets you keep your elementals after combat.
Maybe as an ultimate ability. It would fit to their imbalanced nature
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted August 21, 2007 05:15 PM |
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Quote:
Seeing that gap of direct damage spells, it fits for the Fist to have less base damage but a higher spell power multiplier in order to be useful in later game, too. The problem is that it isn't The damage is too low for middle to late game, and as said it's definitely too low for early game.
Hmmm yes, I see your point, but the problem is that being a first level spell, they can hardly make it 12 x Power as multiplier, since that would compete with level 2 Destructive spells, which would be over the top. I think the point with Fist is that it's supposed to be not comparable with Eldritch Arrow, but a spell you could use in other situations - like against creatures with Magic Resistance etc. The idea as such is not bad, but obviously it's not going to be a spell you'll use a lot when it does low damage - just like you mainly use Eldritch Arrow early in the game if you go destructive.
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Mystic_Genie
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 21, 2007 11:33 PM |
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Quote:
Hmmm yes, I see your point, but the problem is that being a first level spell, they can hardly make it 12 x Power as multiplier, since that would compete with level 2 Destructive spells, which would be over the top. I think the point with Fist is that it's supposed to be not comparable with Eldritch Arrow, but a spell you could use in other situations - like against creatures with Magic Resistance etc. The idea as such is not bad, but obviously it's not going to be a spell you'll use a lot when it does low damage - just like you mainly use Eldritch Arrow early in the game if you go destructive.
true but there is a special diference betwen eldritch arrow and fists of rath that youre overloking.That fists of rath has an asociated skill that giwes it 4 extra spell power giving it a much more aceptible damage(nearli double),and there is one hero in acadamy ,Zehir,wich can get the skill early with a litle luck.
Come to thinck about him can you imagine how he vould do if master of conjuration would actuly alwe him to chose the element
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Tenaka
Famous Hero
Makes sense
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posted August 22, 2007 12:25 AM |
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The only thing that I'd like to see with the Fist is a little bit more damage. The only time I use it is if I fight creatures with magic resistance (golems, mostly) when my hero has a low level. Otherwise, it's completely useless...At level 8, the hero usually can inflict more damage with a physical attack. Of course, summoning magic gives a boost, but still...
Something that I did notice, is that if you compare the damage of both spells on expert level of their respective schools, the fist does equal damage at 11 SP. Just mentioning. 
And about Zehir, he's a campaign hero, so you won't have a lot of chance to play him...
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Mystic_Genie
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 22, 2007 02:08 PM |
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Quote:
The only thing that I'd like to see with the Fist is a little bit more damage.....
I thinck a 50% increase would macke it more of a decent spell(it should also be dons to wasp swarm)
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And about Zehir, he's a campaign hero, so you won't have a lot of chance to play him...
True but it would have been nice especialy if master of caonjuration would alow you to CHOSE the element and conjure 150% of the spell power as elements(instead of 100%)it would actuly make the spel worty of the 4 level
And an other thing,I thinck fire wall and phantome force shoud be swiched,provided that the phantome force would have a litle more then 1 hp(like 44+4*p).True it would be overpowering but there could be a condition to forbide the use of the spell until the first fantom force is destroid.
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havenlover
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 24, 2007 08:42 AM |
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I like summoning, only two problems. phoenix is absurdly powerful and summon elementals is a laugh most of the time. summoning is easily the most innovate school. I think other schools need to be more like summoning.
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roy-algriffin
Supreme Hero
Chocolate ice cream zealot
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posted August 25, 2007 12:07 AM |
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pheonix? theres too many ways to counter it like. cold death vorpal sword death touch deadeye shot and maybe others
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Daystar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Back from the Dead
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posted August 25, 2007 12:22 AM |
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lots of skeletons?
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havenlover
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 25, 2007 03:13 AM |
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pheonix? theres too many ways to counter it like. cold death vorpal sword death touch deadeye shot and maybe others
where you gna find two whole populations of phoenix's to kill?
anyway it just dont work that easily.
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Ted
Promising
Supreme Hero
Peanut Exterminator
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posted August 26, 2007 11:53 AM |
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Quote:
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pheonix? theres too many ways to counter it like. cold death vorpal sword death touch deadeye shot and maybe others
where you gna find two whole populations of phoenix's to kill?
Haven campaign on "You will not survive!" personally, the magic system is rather good imo. if we start to edit things, then we might just make things a whole lot worse
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Gil-galad
Known Hero
High King of Noldor
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posted August 26, 2007 02:48 PM |
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I have a suggestion to a new summoning spell: Have not you guys been annoyed in siege battles when you have to fly over the walls or get trough the gate? You can destroy the walls of course, but who wants to go trough it? You will just be damaged and even more irritated. What about a summoning spell called Remove Obstacle which can of course remove obstacles BUT ALSO remove 2x2 squares of wall fortifications? Then you could actually get trough the catapult-made gaps in the walls
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Ted
Promising
Supreme Hero
Peanut Exterminator
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posted August 26, 2007 03:32 PM |
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earthquake destroys the walls for you, just fine, all of them, at least a bit. and most of the time if you have a bigger army the enemy comes to you
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted August 26, 2007 04:52 PM |
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Maybe if earthquake became useful outside of a siege too? It could harm warmachines and mechanical units or damage(with stunning effect) an area of effect with outside tiles getting reduced damage. I just hate potentially useless spells.
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Tenaka
Famous Hero
Makes sense
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posted August 26, 2007 05:33 PM |
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Yeah, same here...It's incredibly useful for a siege, but it really sucks if you're being sieged, and you could use a destructive or light magic spell.
My suggestion for the earthquake spell:
'Deals moderate (not as powerful as meteor shower, for instance) earth damage to all enemy walkers on the field, and has a chance of stunning war-machines for a short time.'
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Houseism of the week:
As fascinating as our bodies are, they're also stupid.
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havenlover
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 27, 2007 12:02 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
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pheonix? theres too many ways to counter it like. cold death vorpal sword death touch deadeye shot and maybe others
where you gna find two whole populations of phoenix's to kill?
Haven campaign on "You will not survive!" personally, the magic system is rather good imo. if we start to edit things, then we might just make things a whole lot worse
I wouldn't "mess" w/ all that much. lots of summoning spells are fun and useful. phoenix is just weird because its the one and only good summon creature spell and its REALLY GOOD.
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Mystic_Genie
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 28, 2007 08:28 AM |
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Quote:
My suggestion for the earthquake spell:
'Deals moderate (not as powerful as meteor shower, for instance) earth damage to all enemy walkers on the field, and has a chance of stunning war-machines for a short time.'
You do realise that the tremore skill gives it stuning efect and damage to players.I say it shoud reduce speed and initiative of creatures on the batle field for 3 turns
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Daystar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Back from the Dead
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posted August 28, 2007 01:06 PM |
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I think it should be an area spell with a huge range, say, 7x7, that deals a little damage to all units in the area, and shuffles them around. Small units move 2-4 tiles at random, large creatures 1-2 tiles at random. More damage to mechanical units, less to fliers. Mabey some sortof initiatvie drop or stunning thing.
And make it higher level.
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GenieLord
Honorable
Legendary Hero
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posted August 28, 2007 02:11 PM |
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Quote:
I think it should be an area spell with a huge range, say, 7x7, that deals a little damage to all units in the area, and shuffles them around. Small units move 2-4 tiles at random, large creatures 1-2 tiles at random. More damage to mechanical units, less to fliers. Mabey some sortof initiatvie drop or stunning thing.
And make it higher level.
I like this idea a lot. 
It would be much more interesting. An Earthquake should do a lot of mess, not just to break some walls. The damage should be quite small, in my opinion. Messing the creatures that the enemy has just organized. It could make shooters to be in front of tanks, or other funny things, that it will be interesting to see how the enemy will deal with them.
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Mystic_Genie
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 29, 2007 12:33 PM |
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I have an other ideea for earth quake.The spell could afect the entire field doing small damage to all creatres exept fliers,the one closest to the center will sufer a 2 turn stuning efect(4*4)wile the ones in a 7*7 will have theire atb reduced
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Tenaka
Famous Hero
Makes sense
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posted August 29, 2007 02:54 PM |
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Nah, that's just a weak armageddon. As for the tremor skill, MG, you can still only use it during a siege. I like Daystar's idea, though... 
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Houseism of the week:
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