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| Thread: An Elegant Heroes Redesign |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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yasmiel
Supreme Hero
Former Chessmaster
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posted September 14, 2007 08:07 PM |
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In h5(and h2 for that matter) there is clear diference between hero classes, and thats why i like it.
Can you tell me what was the difference between demoniac and knight?
It felt the same. I dont want to have haven hero equally stong in magic as dungeon one for example. luckily it won't change anyway so i have no worries.
And to answer that question, yes, in multiplayer - players always picked might, in the end they were drastically better than magic ones (h3)
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted September 14, 2007 08:47 PM |
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One thing to prevent Might Heroes from becoming vastly more powerful than Magic Heroes would be to limit their access to spells. Perhaps only allow level 1 and 2 spells? Of course, the lack of spells is offset by their enhanced Might abilities.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted September 14, 2007 09:43 PM |
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I, for one, whole-heartedly agree that we should have two Hero classes. I don't think Might > Magic will hold true any longer (did it ever? I, for one, also favored Magic Heroes in Heroes 3), the new Magic system put severe restrictions on anyone not skilled in the magic school - not only will you only be able to use spell levels 1 and 2, but their effect will be virtually useless - much more so than in previous chapters of the game.
I once, however, did a lot of thinking about how one could solve the problem that a Might Hero with Dark / Light Magic skills will often be superior to a Magic Hero, because these schools depend less on Spellpower. I will not hi-jack this thread to continue that discussion (those interested may see it here), but I think that even without such modifications, Magic Heroes would still have their justification and use.
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What will happen now?
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aulfgar
Hired Hero
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posted September 14, 2007 10:27 PM |
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Random Map Generator
The Random Maps as they stand are very boring. The main problems I see are as follows:
No mans land doesn't exist.
Water options as previously mentioned.
Options for Artifact and resource scarcity.
Not having every town at level 1-2.
A functional Underground, the current one gives us the wonders of unreachable stuff.
More random critters instead of fixed ones, makes for replayable maps.
Random Outposts that can have more than one level of critter, should be very easy to implement.
Automatic removal of Instant Travel on RMG's or fixing teh AI with Instant Travel.
Allied options for RMG's, as previously mentioned.
Having the Build scripts be available on both the Map editor and the in game RMG, there shouldn't be one's that are available in one and not the other.
Options for Tear of Asha.
Having an actually challenging strong critters option.
Prison options, IE a field for placing certain heroes in prisons or making an imprisoned hero worth your while.
Options for turning off certain buildings, like Windmills or Dwarven Treasuries.
Random resources should be more prevalent as well and perhaps slightly biased towards the faction you end up being.
Regions for players ought not be anything but grass or dirt with the intervening no mans land as a different land type, or even the same one, so you don't end up with a dungeon player in snow only being able to take 5 steps on a road.
Just a few thoughts maybe they can be implemented and perhaps not, but if they were I would be a much happier customer.
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MornVatreniVuk
Adventuring Hero
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posted September 14, 2007 10:56 PM |
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That's a lot of good stuff, Elvin.
HERO SCREEN:
It is a bit tossed around, but I want to know this>>>
WHY are all heroes same in appearance, even if they are an opposite sex?
I mean, you pick some male Mage (Razzak for instance), and you see some fat old man sitting on an elephant, smoking. Alright.
But when you pick female Mage (Let's say Nur), you'll still see a fat old man, sitting and smoking!
Why!!! They did everything to improve graphics and stuff but still did this!?
In H3 & H4 Heroes of opposite sexes were different and in H5 are not.
There's no sense.
 Maybe this was already a topic here, on HC, but I'm relatively new, so I wouldn't know. If that is the case, i apologize for taking space.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted September 14, 2007 11:18 PM |
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@Maurice
-I know that you can see the income from the resources bar but that's a cheap way out of it, it's not as if it's hard to make a decent kingdom overview 
The army overview could find its way in a screen.
-Maybe empowered spells could get a different outline or be in a different section after the normal ones. If you get the ability after you learn the spell you get a whole mess - where is the one, where is te other?
-Spell hotkeys could work as a spell bar in battle. You could drag the desirable spells in that bar for quick use as in rpgs. Still a neat and tidy spellbook requires little clicking so I'd prefer it.
-I like your ideas on the mainland type, say desert, lush etc. If you could choose what is in the majority of the map with native terrain only in starting areas it would make things easier. And of course the inclusion of special game types that would enrich gameplay.
Btw speaking on random map I'd surely want an option to disable relics or specific relics at least.
-Necromancy is pretty good as it is an a dark energy bar is on its way 
-As for the might and magic heroes apart from the stat increases the skill percentages could get revised, maybe get different abilities for some.
-The random production dwelling would be good if it gave the same to all players.
-Border Gates were good I have not seen much of them in H5. Well apart from campaigns.
-Garrisons are interesting but having them act like a castle is a bit too much imo.
-External Dwellings upgrade I'd certainly want to see.
@Alc
Sindbad's implementation is indeed elegant. The mana reduction reminds me someone's post that wished the warlocks to use or not irresistible spells at will. But it goes a step beyond that, it shows a control over the energy they channel into the spell 
Someone mentioned that might heroes will always be picked because they win over magic. You know why? Because the magic school they take gives them way too much benefit even with limited spellpower. Righteous might->+12 whooping attack= +60% damage. Even a mass haste is enough to kick your ass, that's why I believe that those with more spellpower should get a better benefit - with a cap of course. Light and dark becomes better with little skill while the rest schools decrease in power and have more requirements too.
If that becomes better balanced I don't see why not.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted September 14, 2007 11:58 PM |
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@aulfgar
The instant travel bug has been long gone I think. And you reminded me why I hate random maps, they start at level 1-2! Arrgh!
Thanks MornVatreniVuk. Female heroes are really missing and that's unacceptable. They cannot take 1 month to make, they should look into it.. It's been mentioned again but I forget things sometimes.
Now I have do do a lovely update with the recommendations.
Keep em coming 
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted September 15, 2007 12:53 AM |
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Finally found the time to read through this - must I say, excellent - topic. I think perhaps you are a bit overly critical on some parts with the layout - yes, I have some things that annoy me as well, but when it comes down to a certain point of detail, it will always be so that one person favors one, and another favors the other, so we can never satisfy everybody on everything. Personally, my biggest gripe (apart from the spellbook) in layout is with the Marketplace: The ruler for selecting what to trade is in left side, but the actual button to commit to the trade is in the right side, and I always exit without actually finishing the trade. 
Also, I think we need to keep in mind in a discussion like this the level of changes we discuss. Changing an interface, adding a Dark Energy bar or even Kingdom Overview is pretty easily done, and will not have impact on gameplay. Making individual Hero textures will probably require a lot more work, but still, would not be difficult to implement. In contrary, things like have dual Hero classes and changing spell mechanics will have huge impact on gameplay. Those are not things we should expect to be seeing in this version of the game - although such debating might give us a good foundation for optimizing the game in its next chapter. The Dual class problem has been subject of numerous topics [in the Altar], and personally I still think it offers one of the most exciting options for new features in upcoming games - particularly because it goes so well hand-in-hand with the new Racial skill system and the skill-ability-tree system, that gives plenty of room for customizing between classes.
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What will happen now?
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted September 15, 2007 01:08 AM |
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Well it's still how I view things although I try to be subjective with most features I'm not really pissed with something but I do find the lack of commitment on some level annoying. The reason is that when you make a continuation you aim for something better in most fields not inferior. That said there is the matter of limited resources from ubi but I stress them so as to show they should be more looked into next time. Maybe it's just that I appreciate the world of ideas and quality about something not just the practical aspect. Because functionality cannot intrigue someone it takes something deeper than that.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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phoenixreborn
Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
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posted September 15, 2007 06:21 AM |
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They've already bitten off more than they can chew with what we're expecting from ToTE. If they could implement some of these cosmetic changes that would be outstanding. Good thread.
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yasmiel
Supreme Hero
Former Chessmaster
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posted September 16, 2007 02:48 PM |
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Another thing i would like fixed.
It's extremely easy - I want "Stone spikes" spell to be written with capital first letters like every pther spell in h5 and in heroes history. So, "Stone Spikes" is what i want.
They managed to change enought to enough, i hope this one will be done too.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted September 16, 2007 03:04 PM |
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Lol I never noticed that!
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Orfinn
Supreme Hero
Werewolf Duke
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posted September 16, 2007 03:43 PM |
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There are much sloppy work in there, I have noticed that! Ever looked at the new Emerald Dragon, creature icon? Yeah they added the cyan color all over the head but not adding details to color as the model has, like bluish throat, red tounge etc.
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pinkspear
Known Hero
Crazy like a fool
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posted September 16, 2007 05:54 PM |
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Very interesting topic congrats!
Am I the only one who hates that runes appear in the spellbook?
Or was it fixed in patch 2.1? Unfortunately I can't play it because the game always crashes with that version
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted September 16, 2007 06:09 PM |
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Thanks for reminding, one of my first thoughts was that runes should have a section of their own - I'll add it. As for them not being in the spellbook I can understand you not wanting to see them there as they cannot be accessed anyway but how else would you check which ones you have? And where else would they appear?
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Daystar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Back from the Dead
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posted September 16, 2007 07:46 PM |
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With the creatures....
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How exactly is luck a skill?
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted September 16, 2007 07:51 PM |
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That is the point, they already do but how would you check which runes you have while on the adventure map?
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Daystar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Back from the Dead
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posted September 16, 2007 07:54 PM |
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Good point.
Perhaps there would be something where you click and the spell book closes, but another book opens. They could also be on a scroll, a tablet, etc.
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How exactly is luck a skill?
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MornVatreniVuk
Adventuring Hero
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posted September 16, 2007 08:42 PM |
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I would gladly give a half of the H5 graphics for a bit of a good old gameplay...
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Daystar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Back from the Dead
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posted September 16, 2007 09:46 PM |
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I wouldn't.
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How exactly is luck a skill?
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