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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: ToTe skills - a small analysis :)
Thread: ToTe skills - a small analysis :) This thread is 6 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 · «PREV / NEXT»
ZombieLord
ZombieLord


Promising
Famous Hero
that wants your brainz...
posted October 01, 2007 04:38 PM

OMG...

I don't like the new skill wheel at all. For start, some things are totally imbalanced (either useless or overpowered), and the fact that perks like Warlock's Luck (which should be only to Dungeon IMO) are now available to other factions...

I really liked the old skill wheel much more...

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted October 01, 2007 04:50 PM

Warlock's luck should be class exclusive, yea

But some things, like counterspell for inferno, were good ideas, which can help with darmag vs inferno issue (for example).

Necromancer with empathy sounds ridiculous, though.

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ZombieLord
ZombieLord


Promising
Famous Hero
that wants your brainz...
posted October 01, 2007 05:06 PM

Yeah, Counterspell for Inferno was a good idea (since they also have high mana)

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Nirual
Nirual


Famous Hero
Imbued Ballista
posted October 01, 2007 05:51 PM

I don't mind Warlocks Luck being more widely available, actually. I don't see why Dungeon should have exclusive rights on ANY spell damage boosting skill. They still have a big edge with Empowered Spells and Elemental chains, not to mention Irresistible Magic by itself.

But Empathy for Necromancers is just a joke.

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pinkspear
pinkspear


Known Hero
Crazy like a fool
posted October 01, 2007 06:34 PM

I think Nival should have done the same to necromancers as they did with the barbarians--->change the absolutely useless leadersip skill (ok, the abilities are not useless, but they could have kept them) into something that is suitable for the necros.

For example, the skill  should give the necros a boost in dark energy points.


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siinn
siinn


Adventuring Hero
posted October 01, 2007 07:15 PM

supa good idea man
leadership could give necro some DE boost instead of useless morale!!!

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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted October 01, 2007 08:07 PM

Obviously, the most logical approach would be to change the skill to give Enemy creatures Morale penalty corresponding to the level (-1, -2, -3), thus negating normal Leadership effect.
____________
What will happen now?

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pinkspear
pinkspear


Known Hero
Crazy like a fool
posted October 01, 2007 08:22 PM

Yeah, I thought about too, but with banshees and banshee howl, I think it would be a bit strong.

BTW, I'm a bit confused, I have read in various topics that in tote the morale and luck cap are increased. Is that true? If so can someone plz explain the changes?

THX

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Nirual
Nirual


Famous Hero
Imbued Ballista
posted October 01, 2007 09:53 PM

as far as I know, you can have higher luck /morale than 5 now, but the basic effect is still capped at 50% for each. However, the additional points affect some perks and serve as a buffer against morale and luck reducing effects.

I definitely agree on the Leadership notion. In H3, Necromancy basically compensated for Leadership (I'm not sure if Necromancers could even get Leadership), and seeing as they changed 5 skills for the Orcs (the 4 schools shatter, Shouts instead of Sorcery), I don't see why Leadership couldn't be changed. The perks are fine (except for Empathy...), but the main skill should really do something that suits necromancers. Like lowering the DE costs for raising creatures for the hero with the skill.

On a side note, since they could some up with something awesome like Blood Rage, I hope they did something great with Avenger aswell.

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HartZa
HartZa


Known Hero
watchout graveyards!
posted October 01, 2007 10:03 PM

Quote:
Yeah, I thought about too, but with banshees and banshee howl, I think it would be a bit strong.

BTW, I'm a bit confused, I have read in various topics that in tote the morale and luck cap are increased. Is that true? If so can someone plz explain the changes?

THX


Well it depends how "strong" it is vs other factions army like haven. They have almost always +5 morale. Expert leadership+items. For creeping haven troops gets good morale very often -> more acts. Whats so powerful if necros enemy has bad morale -> less acts. Itīs just a vice versa and is counterable very easily. Necros gets leadership /counter/ you get leadership. Even only having creatures from 1 factions already gives you +1 morale. Besides necros still has VERY WEAK chance to get leadership after all. Necros troops already have lousy initiate, speed and damage so Leadership giving morale penalty is only a good balance skill as nival already screw almost all necros USEFUL skills

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NIght_Heaven
NIght_Heaven


Adventuring Hero
Lonely star in heaven dream
posted October 01, 2007 10:16 PM

Ha..with the new skills and new creatures..Inferno are most likely be in the top 3. Academy is rather usless now since anyone can have counterspell and all protections against magics.

After ToE skills(not creatures) the top is next.
1.Orcs
2.Sylvans
3.Dungeon
4.Inferno
5.Haven
6.Dwarfs
7.Necropolis
8.Academy.

After creatures in ToE the top is next.
1.Inferno
2.Sylvans
3.Haven
4.Dwarfs
5.Dungeon
6.Necropolis
7.Orcs
8.Academy

As we all see,Academy is the worst of the plot. If a player with Academy decide to take the ultimate route,then it will miss some of the most important skills in game. Also the creatures are tottaly underpowered.  The only thing that save Academy from tottaly dumb is their special abillity.

However...the skills now are just throwed there to be a mixed bad and good things for everyone. Since thats not quite fair it is unbalanced too.

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George
George


Adventuring Hero
Dragon Lord
posted October 01, 2007 10:51 PM

Quote:

After ToE skills(not creatures) the top is next.
1.Orcs
2.Sylvans

After creatures in ToE the top is next.
1.Inferno
2.Sylvans



I would put Sylvan in the first place .
____________

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George
George


Adventuring Hero
Dragon Lord
posted October 01, 2007 10:58 PM

OMG..I forgot about the alternative upgrade for Succubus... Your were right .. Inferno is the first ....but I'll find a way for my new Sylvan to defeat the nasty overpowered Inferno
____________

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Nirual
Nirual


Famous Hero
Imbued Ballista
posted October 02, 2007 11:20 AM
Edited by Nirual at 14:20, 02 Oct 2007.

You're forgetting that Counterspell is a huge mana drain, while Wizards with Archmages get pretty cheap spells.
And you can't block all Mass spells either, even if you have Expert Sorcery and the enemy doesn't (he still has 50% recovery, you have 30%).

Bottom line, it probably works best against Warlocks, and have fun doubling the doubled mana cost of their Empowered spells.
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In ur base killing ur doods... and raising them as undeads.

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Azagal
Azagal


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
posted October 02, 2007 12:09 PM
Edited by Azagal at 12:09, 02 Oct 2007.

Quote:
OMG..I forgot about the alternative upgrade for Succubus... Your were right .. Inferno is the first ....but I'll find a way for my new Sylvan to defeat the nasty overpowered Inferno
Wow wow wow... easy there! Inferno overpowered? I don't think so... Before TotE Dark >>>> Inferno now Inferno finally has something that protects it! Inferno has no means for cleansing (2% light magic... yeah right) so counterspell actually is a big help apart from that it actually makes the huge mana pool of the demonlords usefull. But I wonder how usefull it would be afterall... It actually gives you time to block 1 mass spell then the other caster will cast before you get to use Counterspell again and then you'll be puppeted/frenzied. I'm not saying it's  not an improvement! It is, but it won't help you in the long run. Eventhough countering the first spell may be enough for Inferno. Besides you really thing the new succubuses are SO broken?

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George
George


Adventuring Hero
Dragon Lord
posted October 02, 2007 01:48 PM

Quote:
Quote:
OMG..I forgot about the alternative upgrade for Succubus... Your were right .. Inferno is the first ....but I'll find a way for my new Sylvan to defeat the nasty overpowered Inferno
Wow wow wow... easy there! Inferno overpowered? I don't think so... Before TotE Dark >>>> Inferno now Inferno finally has something that protects it! Inferno has no means for cleansing (2% light magic... yeah right) so counterspell actually is a big help apart from that it actually makes the huge mana pool of the demonlords usefull. But I wonder how usefull it would be afterall... It actually gives you time to block 1 mass spell then the other caster will cast before you get to use Counterspell again and then you'll be puppeted/frenzied. I'm not saying it's  not an improvement! It is, but it won't help you in the long run. Eventhough countering the first spell may be enough for Inferno. Besides you really thing the new succubuses are SO broken?


That's why I take Familiars with me for extra mana AND to drain the enemies mana. And the your right the puppet master can be cast after the blocked mass spell ...didn't think of that. And about the new succubus  I think it's a bit overpowered with the seduce. (I'm not saying thei are broken. They are just good)
____________

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Azagal
Azagal


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
posted October 02, 2007 02:06 PM

Yeah ok broken is too strong a word but it definetly is strong... whoa... imagine seduced furies... that be nice eventhough kind of weired unless they are sort of lesibian but ehhh lets forget about that... I just wondered if you have seal of darkness (makes the enemy spend twice the mana for a dark spell) it will mean that the counterspell will drain you 4 times the normal mana cost oO? LOL 64 mana for ONE blocked puppetmaster. Would be 16 for slow... but thats no biggie.

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George
George


Adventuring Hero
Dragon Lord
posted October 02, 2007 02:16 PM

I'm afraid you are right! Since you'll force the enemy hero to spend twice the mana cost... You'll have to take original mana cost (doubled by shrug)X 2. So the best thing would be not to take this skill
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Nirual
Nirual


Famous Hero
Imbued Ballista
posted October 02, 2007 02:25 PM

depends on whether counterspell mana cost is based on the base cost of the spell or the actual manacost when casting (ie. Arcane Training taken into account). If the latter is true, Wizards are indeed easy to counterspell since their manacosts are greatly reduced with Archwizards and Arcane Training. If not, they are guaranteed to outlast any hero trying to counterspell-block them.
____________
In ur base killing ur doods... and raising them as undeads.

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Azagal
Azagal


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
posted October 02, 2007 02:30 PM

Quote:
If not, they are guaranteed to outlast any hero trying to counterspell-block them.

I don't think a battel would last that long... Counterspell: "Special combat ability. Negates all effects of the next spell cast by the enemy, but drains twice the cost of that spell." So I guess modifiers will be counted in.

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