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| Thread: Academy heroes and new ToE skills analysis.Individual wizard heroes guide |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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NIght_Heaven
Adventuring Hero
Lonely star in heaven dream
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posted October 01, 2007 11:26 PM |
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Academy heroes and new ToE skills analysis.Individual wizard heroes guide
We all know the in ToE the skills for every faction are throw around in a mixed manner and are re-arranged for every faction.
I will try now to cover the Academy skill guide based on every wizard hero from Academy.
Important:
*The only hero that can not attend for ultimate is Nur(Sorcery => mana regeneration instead of Sorcery=> arcane training)*
** Havez has ballista. Therfore has the balista skill.He cant attend for ultimate but it might get changed in ToE.**
***Skills are taken in the order they are given-2%,8%,10%,15% so I wont say take attack then logistic or another skills that will not show up more than 80-90% of the time.***
****Anyone can add here for making a better guide.I dont say this is perfect..is just my guide and I had been very objective.****
Now lets see...Because the path for ultimate requires only 3 skils(Enlightement,War machines and Sorcery) I will try and make the routes for every hero to take the ultimate.And for not write the same thing over and over again I will say now:
Arcane Omniscience(all spells learned and casted at expert level) for general wizards:
1.Enlightement=>Inteligence=>Wizards reward=>Mentoring
2.War machines=>Catapult=>remote control=>tremors.
3.Sorcery=>Arcane training=>Counterspell=>Arcane Excelence
4.Racial skill=>Consume artifact and magic mirror.
Now..lets analys this. A powerfull ultimate but has some bad parts.
Good part:
-Sorcery=>Arcane training=>Counterspell
-Enlightement=>Wizards reward
-Racial skill=>magic mirror
-War machines=>remote control
Bad parts:
-Enlightement=>Inteligence=>Mentoring
-War machines=>Catapult=>tremors(this can be discused)!!
-Racial skill=>Consume artifact
So,actualy we gave up some usless abilities for being able to cast all spells on expert level. First of all never use consume artifact.Intelligence is not worthed since wizard are full of mana. Mentoring is usless. War machines catapult cant be as good as warmachines balissta but that can be discussed.
Now..Lets see how can every wizard can take the finnal route and if he is good or worhty to play with.I wont discuss here about the other skill that can be taken(since you will have one more opened space).All heroes will start with an additional skill that can be or not be required for ultimate.Thats no problem since all of them can have good perks.
Faiz. His starting skill is dark magic,master of pain wich is good only for vulnerability. His speciality is not powerfull. I say instead of going for corrupted soil, take master of mind and then shrug of darkness. Hes a balanced hero and already knows the spell vurnelability. Good hero for long runs.
Razak. The golem master is very good in terms of starting skill. He starts with defense, a more that sure one of the best skill in the game. Because he has the perk vitality,I suggest to go for stand your ground and wait for the attak skill to kick in.(I made an exception here and say attack since is worthed). Once you have attack,imediatly choose tactics and tadaam...preparation perk will be available. This hero is a golem master and it will make your golems more powerfull. A good hero for main hero,but not for rush.Good in final battles.
Nathir. The master of fire is the best rusher Academy have. However,keep in mind that now all the races have the perk Fire resistance for grabs if they take light magic. His starting perk master of fire can lead imedialty to mana burst ,but I sugest to wait and take secrets of destruction and then ignite or fiery wrath. Both are avaialbe by this hero first perk. Sap magic might be very very good so conider that when it shows up(only against Dungeon or Necropolis or runemage). He even starts with fireball and make him a good rush hero but a bad main hero in late games because the fireball will be replaced in casting by more powerfull spells(not only damange spells)
Narxes. This hero can attain ultimate in 22 levels not in 24.That because he already starts with inteligence(provided by enlightement).Furthermore,it will incrase your mage's attack and deffense so thats a very good main hero. No more to say here...you still have two slots open for another two skill.Choose whatever you want.
Jhora. While her ability is not quite powerful, like the hero above,she starts with arcane training(sorcery) so she will have ultimate in 22 levels. Good for starting hero as she has eldrich arrow.Good for main and for rush but she dosent excel in any part.
Gallib.Even if this hero start with another skill that is not reqired for ultimate,he starts with magic mirror.He can take the ultimate in 23 levels due to that.His starting skill is luck.If you take resourcefulness then he will be a bad main hero.If you take soldires luck or protection he will be a good main hero. Acualy deads man curse can be good if you take soldiers luck.Otherwise if you want magic protection,go for...protection lol. Not that you will needed for this hero since his speciality make a bad spell turn on enemies but you never know. A balanced hero otherwise(good against Dungeon,Necropolis)
Now...two heroes remain. One is Nur and one is Havez.
Havez is good for the army because he can help you gremlins and he start with Warmachines=>balista.Can be very good for creeping.Take light magic(a must have with him) and destructive magic(for sap magic). Take sorcery(magic insight=>arcane brilliance for achiving distract.Then...luck(Soliders luck=>warlocks luck)Since you have all the needed skills you will have a good combat mage he he.
Nur..Avoid taking with Nur every perk that gives you mana. She wont need any mana at all because she will regain her mana in combat.The only thing you need to take with her are summoning magic( banish and fire warriors.Sacrifice erretic mana for arcane training counterspell. Next..Destructive magic.She will never run out of mana so basicly you can always shoot a destructive magic againt enemies.Or summon..Or whatever you want. Good at anything but not too strong.Balanced.
Before ending this, you must know that taking the ultimate will make you lose some on the best perks in the game.You will miss distract,brimstone rain,swift minded(since requires arcane intuition),warlock's luck since requires arcane brilliance and others like erretic mana or arcane exaltation. Still is up to anyone to play the game how they want. I hope i am not doing somethin wrong. Happy posting.
Update.* I have been informed that with the patch the conusme artifact restores some creatures after being consumed. That make this a bility a lot better that it was.*
*Also the speciality of Nathir hero affects Armaggedon aswell as fireball.*
*Inteligence can help versus inferno.That it may not be much but added.* (thanks Elvin for the update)
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okrane
Famous Hero
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posted October 02, 2007 11:07 PM |
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Only one comment:
I don't know why everyone is so obsessed with these ultimates. They stink.
The only case I would go for an ulti would be if I am sylvan and I play an XL map. For the rest screw it. Ultimates are crap.
You should focus on getting maximum efficiency early, not after a more experienced player has already kicked your ass 3 times over.
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NIght_Heaven
Adventuring Hero
Lonely star in heaven dream
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posted October 02, 2007 11:14 PM |
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Well..once with Toe you will see that every hero can get ultimate very easily. The fact is that ultimate for wizards made up for all magic skills in a place. You wont win with Academy against any other race that has the ultimate. And I am winning more than you can imagine at Heroes 5.
However...think about it this way. Ultimate here means dark,light,summoning and destruction at expert level. If the sylvans will take nature's call then probably the pupet master or ressurection or blind or anything else will help you. You will have soo many possibilities with that ultimate.
But I agree with you too.Thats why I will make something else and i will try and see how each hero is best to develop without ultimate.But Toe will make ultimates easyer.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted October 02, 2007 11:16 PM |
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A good try  Though considering the ultimate's usefulness and the requirements I'd do everything in my power to avoid it. There are just many better things to opt for and going for it really weakens you from early to midgame. Only in a large+ map and I would have slower creeping as well. Basically you are stuck with 3 skills that have no bite, they cannot repel an army if you are attacked. Warmachines only with ballista, enlightenment is meant to boost spells you do not have and sorcery is of limited use with no spell mastery and no spells above lvl 2. Counterspell is good but you don't have might units as a backup. Remote control may instead give you opponent's ammo cart and tremors...I would not attack a town with no good spells anyway.
Faiz is good but his special is weak. I suppose it can destroy phantom forces with a mass cast while weakening nearby targets, otherwise it's not as damaging.
Razzak's alternative could be to go for power of endurance otherwise preparation with academy is awesome  Add in dark or light magic and you have a powerful might build. Not that summoning is bad but it needs sorcery more than the others.
About Nathir I wonder if it would be viable to go all destructive. Sorcery, enlightenment, luck->warlock's luck to boost his destructive potential. Now academy has the elemental gargoyles to consider and you always have motw. Of course better to get something else as a failsafe too Have not tried it but putting absolute faith in just one school may turn out bad.
I guess now Narxes is a good candidate for the ultimate and starting with enlightenment he can get it earlier too. Never liked him much as a main though, only the mage for 36 fist damage seems appealing 
I just love Jhora, many reasons  A shame she can't get distract but I also like counterspell and one can't get both.
Since Galib has luck to make the best out of it I'd aim for warlock's luck. Or not pick abilities and focus on another skill path. His cleansing is good to have but it helps little early.
Havez can use many combinations but the best to aim is flaming arrows I believe. Enlightenment to boost ballista/mini arties and sorcery for counterspell is fun vs spellcasters as felunio had pointed out And yes light would complement pretty nicely.
Nur is like Jhora's twin sister with neverending mana She just does not fear endless hordes of familiars or necro's motn with her special Many potential paths though destructive/summoning is a good combo to abuse earlygame with motw. I don't really know, we'll see how powerful destructive now is with a wizard but I'd take at least light or dark for a longer game.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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phoenixreborn
Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
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posted October 03, 2007 06:07 AM |
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Quote:
You wont win with Academy against any other race that has the ultimate. And I am winning more than you can imagine at Heroes 5.
Not against human players I'm guessing. What's your TOH name?
Quote:
Ultimate here means dark,light,summoning and destruction at expert level.
With no perks.
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted October 03, 2007 11:16 AM |
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I see no way the wizard can be competitive with only level 1 and level 2 spells for his first 23 level. His new ultimate path give him nothing to fight with.
Also, the effects of Arcane Omniscience need to be changed to make it desirable to achieve. Currently why would a wizard want it? It offers no perk benefits so he is much better caster without it.
How should it be change? I don't know if this would be possible, but maybe assign the wizard random magic perks for each school when he achieves Arcane Omniscience (even if he doesn't have the appropriate magic skills.) This would make AO interesting and more useful.
Now, how should the path be changed so the wizard can be competitive without giving him a path that is too easy/good? I think sorcery should remain in the path for certain. He needs spells in the path, so either summoning or light magic could be there as those are the focus of his guild. What for the third skill? If light or summoning is in the path then war machines could be left like it is.
Any other suggestions?
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted October 03, 2007 11:27 AM |
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Well with mini-arts, and such the skill I would suggest might be a bit useless. However, I think the presence of a powerful mage can interact with the magic around. So here it is.
Power Drain. All enemy or enemy unit spells cost 1.5x as much to cost. Also all spells do only 75% damage to hero's unit, or last only 3/4 as long.
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Message received.
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kermit
Known Hero
Soul hunter
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posted October 03, 2007 12:04 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
You wont win with Academy against any other race that has the ultimate. And I am winning more than you can imagine at Heroes 5.
Not against human players I'm guessing. What's your TOH name?
Quote:
Ultimate here means dark,light,summoning and destruction at expert level.
With no perks.
People can become experts at some maps playing them over and over and knowing exactly what is where. Some maps advantage a certain type of strategy too. One can be the god on a map and a total looser on another
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted October 03, 2007 02:02 PM |
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Quote:
Power Drain. All enemy or enemy unit spells cost 1.5x as much to cost. Also all spells do only 75% damage to hero's unit, or last only 3/4 as long.
No good, a knight would toast you on the spot even with no light magic.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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NIght_Heaven
Adventuring Hero
Lonely star in heaven dream
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posted October 03, 2007 02:32 PM |
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Heya...I played Heroes 5 only Lan (with other human pleayers doh) and if not lan then hotseat. I dont know how to play online over the internet. My point isnt the fact that you can win with that ultimate or what the hell are you saying there lol my point is next.
Expert light magic=>3 skills
Expert dark magic=>3 skills
Expert summoning magic=>3 skills
Expert destructive magic=>3 skills.
In total are 12 skills. And you will learn only the spells that are in mage gulid. And you will lose 4 skill slots.(without ultimate)
Now,for ultimate you have the racial who dosent ocupy a skill slot.Then another 3 slots ocupied with the skills needed for ultimate. Indeed is much more hard to reach the ultimate than learning all magic schools at expert but you will learn all spells in existance and cast them at expert level. That will ocupy only 3 slots(not to count racial). In the meanwhile you can choose whatever you want as your main skills,you can even learn any type of magic school you want for the perks.
I never said rushing here.I notice some of you say that you need a good hero in the beggining. Of course,I never said to play for ultimate in a small or medium map. The palayers that go for rushing will chose only the best skills that can give them an advance and that is not the ultimate. 22\23 or 24 lucky skill slots are not hard to attein in Toe since you can forget the skills you want.
Another point Is the fact that any other player will(probably) go for the ultimate. Except Haven of course.
Lets see an example(totally fictionaly):
-On a large map\xxl\very big\big\ against 6\8 players there will be many races.You will have time as Academy(since you can rezist a bit longer than might orientated faction if they are doing rush) As a big map the possibilities are many.You can ,even in a big map to go for magic rush.Or you can even make rush. Since Academy can only make magic rush (Inferno,Haven and Necropolis are easiest to rush with) you will have to take several magic routes. If you will only take light for example then you will only play defensevly since light will only help to make your army stronger but that take several turns. If you take only dark you will play enterly offensive since you are weakaning the army for beating faster. On a large map if you have the possibility to go for ultimate then go.
-On medium and small maps you will never go for ultimate. Since ultimate requires some bad perks you should avoid it.
P.S. I never said ultiamte is very powerfull I said if you want to go for ultimate since in Toe will be easy then you should go for it.Doh. See ya.
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phoenixreborn
Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
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posted October 03, 2007 03:15 PM |
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Fair enough Night_Heaven. It makes more sense now that you have explained more fully.
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NIght_Heaven
Adventuring Hero
Lonely star in heaven dream
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posted October 03, 2007 03:31 PM |
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Thanks for understanding
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Nirual
Famous Hero
Imbued Ballista
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posted October 03, 2007 05:08 PM |
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Actually, most of the Ultimates usefulness depends on what skills it restricts you to. If you like the setup, sure, go for it. Well, if you think you can make good use of the Ultimate. I still don't care for the Knights Ultimate, for example. I'm not a fan of the emergency Last Stand and Guardian Angel Skill, and the Ultimate is still comparably weak.
Wizards got a pretty good deal with the new setup, actually. Sorcery and Enlightment are both excellent to support good spellcasting, even though I hate having to pick Catapult and no Ballista.
And you have still room to improve one or even two schools of magic with the perks. Especially Light and Dark for the Mass spells.
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In ur base killing ur doods... and raising them as undeads.
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted October 03, 2007 10:12 PM |
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Quote:
Actually, most of the Ultimates usefulness depends on what skills it restricts you to. If you like the setup, sure, go for it. Well, if you think you can make good use of the Ultimate. I still don't care for the Knights Ultimate, for example. I'm not a fan of the emergency Last Stand and Guardian Angel Skill, and the Ultimate is still comparably weak.
Wizards got a pretty good deal with the new setup, actually. Sorcery and Enlightment are both excellent to support good spellcasting, even though I hate having to pick Catapult and no Ballista.
And you have still room to improve one or even two schools of magic with the perks. Especially Light and Dark for the Mass spells.
If you look at new ultimate paths, I think you will find other factions got pretty decent and survivable path to their respective ultimate.
Sorcery is not good without spells, and only level 1 and level 2 for first 23 or 24 levels (wizard will take MOTW surely which suprisingly not listed in ultimate path) is not survivable. It is true that he like all other factions can chose additional skills, but that:
1) pushes his ultimate back a number of levels.
2) makes him less likely to achieve ultimate
Every faction should have equally useful path to ultimate IMHO. This inconsistancy will be noted when TOTE multiplay begins.
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted October 03, 2007 10:48 PM |
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It takes 1 level to take a basic Magic skill, allowing the cast of level 3 spells of that School. Anyway, you are depending on stuff like Witch Huts as well, so you need to have a bit of luck that the offered skill matches your route to the Ultimate.
And, one thing to note: if the map contains a Memory Mentor, all you need to do is collect enough skillpoints, regardless of what skill you put them in. Once you have enough, all you need is a bit of money and you can re-spec to your Ultimate if you want to.
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MartectX
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 04, 2007 12:14 AM |
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Quote:
And, one thing to note: if the map contains a Memory Mentor, all you need to do is collect enough skillpoints, regardless of what skill you put them in. Once you have enough, all you need is a bit of money and you can re-spec to your Ultimate if you want to.
Get a tower hero, mentor him, level him up a bit more, respec him to the ultimate, respec him to whatever-with-Scholar-perk and have him teach all your heroes all level 1-3 spells.
Hell, you could even get the ultimate and respec and master all spell schools and perks! Instant every-mass-spell in the game!
Hope this doesn't work. 
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yasmiel
Supreme Hero
Former Chessmaster
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posted October 04, 2007 12:26 AM |
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IMHO, ultimates are a bad idea which has too much threads about it. I don't see why they had any need to put such skill in the game.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted October 04, 2007 12:34 AM |
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Because of its inherent coolness Many people when they hear about think of something super duper wow but of course when they try it they get disappointed assuming they even get it. Since the game started with it it's better that it got improved but I still fear for the game balance. Maybe it would be better if it had not been included in H5 at all - not unless balanced and fair for all factions. Which it still isn't and in a glaring manner..
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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NIght_Heaven
Adventuring Hero
Lonely star in heaven dream
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posted October 04, 2007 11:21 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
And, one thing to note: if the map contains a Memory Mentor, all you need to do is collect enough skillpoints, regardless of what skill you put them in. Once you have enough, all you need is a bit of money and you can re-spec to your Ultimate if you want to.
Get a tower hero, mentor him, level him up a bit more, respec him to the ultimate, respec him to whatever-with-Scholar-perk and have him teach all your heroes all level 1-3 spells.
Hell, you could even get the ultimate and respec and master all spell schools and perks! Instant every-mass-spell in the game!
Hope this doesn't work.
Ha..nice one there. That would be inbalance thou...But the game already is inbalanced.
However I agree..some ultimates are not powerfull at all.Neither strong neither helping neither good. You cant expect for example, a Haven player to go for the ultimate lets be serious.However,even if some ultimates arent very good some of them can give you quite a boost. I dont think Urgash Call or Natures luck not being powerfull.Thats because the game is inbalanced and is very bad. With the Memory mentors and Mentoring there would be nice strategies to go with.We will have to see what will happen in ToE. Not much time to wait.
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Nirual
Famous Hero
Imbued Ballista
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posted October 04, 2007 02:32 PM |
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Quote:
If you look at new ultimate paths, I think you will find other factions got pretty decent and survivable path to their respective ultimate.
Sorcery is not good without spells, and only level 1 and level 2 for first 23 or 24 levels (wizard will take MOTW surely which suprisingly not listed in ultimate path) is not survivable. It is true that he like all other factions can chose additional skills, but that:
1) pushes his ultimate back a number of levels.
2) makes him less likely to achieve ultimate
Every faction should have equally useful path to ultimate IMHO. This inconsistancy will be noted when TOTE multiplay begins.
My point is, you aren't forced to learn magic schools that become redundant for the most part when you get the ultimate.
Then again, I personally never thought of the wizard ultimate as something desirable since I never find myself in a situation where I can make good use of all 4 schools at once.
I agree going for that ultimate limits a wizard heavily when it comes to spellcasting, but its very rewarding in that aspect once you get it. It's weird that you don't need MotW though, since the other factions need all 3 skills to get the ultimate, and MotW is definitely
a lot more useful than Consume Artifact.
But hey, at least you get something decent, unlike Unstoppable Charge...
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In ur base killing ur doods... and raising them as undeads.
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