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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: Do you use artificer and is it effective?
Thread: Do you use artificer and is it effective? This thread is 3 pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV
phoenixreborn
phoenixreborn


Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
posted October 17, 2007 04:02 PM

Quote:
That wouldn't help much considering different opponents and maps.


I disagree.  I think the statistics would tell a great deal.

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sdfx
sdfx


Famous Hero
posted October 17, 2007 05:10 PM

Inferno has a bit stronger creeping than before but still the most important thing didn't change: no war machines = no "real" inferno.

New creatures are stronger for creeping: Vermins > familiars - 6 speed wins. Overseers are pathetic compared to grunts - leap is priceless. Firehounds > cerberi because of easier multistrike.

Of course, dark magic is excellent for creeping too. Master of mind, frenzy, puppet etc. Even curse of the netherworld is now good. Master of pain can be very useful too because of mass vulnerability + ballista and the fact that mass decay does a pretty good damage overall(it's a 10/0.5=20 initiative hero cast).

Anyway, a good demonlord built should IMO look like:
Master of mind, warpath, tent, ballista.

Also, AI now can be very confused while it is trying to ignore summons: it can follow a very long path. With favorable obstacles AI walkers may have huge problems to reach main inferno stacks. So, it depends: sometimes AI can be weaker than before patch.

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Nirual
Nirual


Famous Hero
Imbued Ballista
posted October 19, 2007 10:22 AM

one of the things that annoy me most with the mini-arties is that, even though your hero can theoretically carry unused mini-arties around while out of town, you lose any mini-artifact if the stack it's equipped on gets wiped out.
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In ur base killing ur doods... and raising them as undeads.

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watcher83
watcher83


Supreme Hero
Child of Malassa
posted October 19, 2007 12:13 PM

Quote:
one of the things that annoy me most with the mini-arties is that, even though your hero can theoretically carry unused mini-arties around while out of town, you lose any mini-artifact if the stack it's equipped on gets wiped out.

actually it makes sense

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Nirual
Nirual


Famous Hero
Imbued Ballista
posted October 20, 2007 10:25 AM

why, because normal artifacts stay around if you defeat the hero that was carrying them? I actually got as far as not placing certain stacks in a battle if they had a high chance of dying.

I'm not a huge fan of going back to my native town over and over again. Sylvan has the same problem, although with a slightly different cause.
Once I got a decent army, all spells from the mage guild and decent mini-arties, I don't want to go back. Squires can bring reinforcements or I can just summon them in.
They can't do that with mini-arties, unless they changed things there.
____________
In ur base killing ur doods... and raising them as undeads.

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Gibblets
Gibblets


Adventuring Hero
Spontaneously Coherent Typist
posted May 02, 2010 11:36 AM
Edited by Gibblets at 11:41, 02 May 2010.

I see everyone has neglected to mention this aspect of the Artificer ability.

Consume Artifact
Special combat ability. Allows hero to consume artifacts equipped on friendly creatures to heal and resurrect it in
combat.
The number of Hit Points healed is equal to 10*Hero_Level*(1+Nb_Effects), where Nb_Effects is the number of effects
crafted in the consumed artifact. The hero only spends 0.25 turn to consume the artifact.
So hypothetically if you're a lvl 4 hero and you have a single effect artie on a creature stack you resurrect 80 HPs,for 10 resources. Not a lot, however at level 20 (when artificer really starts to shine because of surplus resources and high Int) with a 3 eff artie you resurrect 800HPs for on average 50 resources.

It does seem very high on resources for the effects provided considering Resurrect Runes take 1 resource for 40%. However on top of Expert Ressurection and only 25% loss of initiative it can be useful in a very tight situation.

Also arties can be useful as a mechanism for saving up resources for some of the later resource intensive structures. So you could instantly put away the resources needed for a silver pavilion very early on in a game and actually have them provide you an immediate buff to your creatures. The moment your town level is high enough you can purchase the Pavilion the day after and put those resources to use providing you an even great combat advantage.

I agree that Artificer is very map dependent, variables being size and Difficulty Level. Also you can use artificer as a substitute for secondary skills or as an increased specialization. For example Expert Logistics with +2 speed for creatures in army = lots of movement points on the adventure map. Or giving your creatures luck/Morale arties instead of Luck skill/Leadership respectively.

By the end of a long game my artifacts would look something like this vs another magic hero(assuming my knowledge is 21)

Master Gremlins HP+5  =82.5% extra health(Huge boost)
               Resist Magic 67%
               Damage Armour -2(All around support creature)

Obsidian Gargoyles Speed +2 total speed of 9
                  Initiative +21% total init of 12
                  Defense +6 total 11 (very swift flyer ideal for shooter distraction)

Steel Golems Defense = total 12
            Luck +3
            Damage Armour -2
(Making them a superior tank to Griffins considering their unlimited retaliation ability and natural 75%magic-proof)

Battle Mage Resist Magic 67%
           Luck +3
           HP +5 total 34 (boosting weakest stat)

Djinn Sultan Magic Resist 67%
            Initiative +21% total 13 (good chance of fastest creature on battlefield)
            Speed +2 total 10

Rakshasa Kshatra Defense +6 total 26
                Luck +3
                Magic Resist 67% (Mostly augmenting it's weaknesses)

Any Titan Luck +3
         Morale +3
         Initiative +21% total 12 (anything to get their turns to come sooner and do devastating damage)      


Unfortunately Arties only upgrade when visiting a town that has an Arcane Forge. At least you get to listen to one of the best town themes while working on them.

Elodin A 1)50/50
        2)It's not as effective as say Necromancy because the resource level decreases at Heroic level where as enemy#s increase
        3)I suppose that's up to the individual. For me, No.
        4)Not in the early game.

     B  1)It's a Necessity
        2)Same as A 2)
        3)Not if I use it as a bank
        4)No, but neither is the Wizard. IMO the Academy team is more of an experts' team.

     C)Not with Town Portal/Instant Travel, not to mention the slower rate of knowledge increase levels
 
     D)A Racially specific war machine used to upgrade artifacts on the road, for example an enchanted anvil.

     E)Some functional differences between the artworks for the different Arties. Maybe the orbs take Resist Magic easier so you only have to spend 3wood and 3 gems instead of 5 each. Would help with the over burdensome cost of the Arties. And make the single effect Arties properly cheap(relatively speaking of course)


last opinion, I've always preferred Summoning magic for my Wizards.
           

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DieDevil
DieDevil


Adventuring Hero
posted May 31, 2010 09:44 PM

no, i think its too useless and expensive to keep modifyingindividual creatures and you can easily lose them

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Lexxan
Lexxan


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
posted May 31, 2010 10:18 PM

Artificier

About a year ago, I made a post in one of Vangelis's threads, about the Artificier Skill

Quote:


Mini-Arties are Vital for Almost Every Academy unit to survive. To create major artefacts, you have to keep you knowledge as high as possible. Knowledge increasing arties, like the Crown of Sar-Issus wouldn't go astray. Note that the Artefacts are upgraded untill your Knowledge reaches 60. If you knowledge is higher, to won't boost your mini-arties

Cost
Basically it's 5 per resource for the First Trait, then 10 per resource for the Second one and 15 per resource for the Second one. Plan if you are low on a particular resource: If you have 5 Sulphur, 15 Wood and  10 Mercury, you can better pick Armour Crush as your first trait and Speed as you second. Why? Because if you switch them, you can't afford them, as the Costs is 15 Ore, 10 Sulphur and 5 Mercury, something you can't afford.

Here is a Screen to illustrate this

The First trait costs 5 of the Required resources, the Second 10, the third 15

Switching traits can be handy...

Possible Effects
Armour Crush: Permanently Lowers the Defence of the Enemy.
Attack: Increases the Wearer's Attack
Defence: Increases the Wearer's Defence
Haste: Increases the Wearer's Initiative
Health: Increases the Wearer's Hit Points
Luck:  Increases the Wearer's Luck
Morale: Increases the Wearer's Morale
Protection: Makes the Wearer partially Magic Proof
Speed: Increases the Wearer's Speed

Armour Crush
Armour Crush lowers the Defence of the Target permanently, making it a free Vulnerability. This can be interesting when fighting against slow opponents with High Defence (Like Fortress, Haven or Academy), weakening them and making them more susceptible to attack. Armour Crush is buffed Slowly. Basically the Defence is lowered by 1 + 1 Extra per every 15 Knowledge, starting at Knowledge 15.

This is:
Know = 1 => - 1 To enemy Defence per hit
Know = 15 => - 2 To enemy Defence per hit
Know = 30=> - 3 To enemy Defence per hit
Know = 45 => - 4 To enemy Defence per hit
Know = 60 => - 5 To enemy Defence per hit

You might think that's kinda harsh, but in fact it would be grossly overpowered otherwise. One thing the Manual didn't speak of was whether it is Cumulative or not.

I used Elvin's Duel Map to test this:


I gave the Master Gremlins and Steel Golems Armour Crush (since Razzak’s Knowledge is 9, it gives a -1 Penalty to enemy Defence)



I let them Shoot the Nightmares, who foolishly stood in my way. As you can see, their defence has Decreased by One. The Gremlins shoot them again;


In the end the Nightmares Defence had dropped from 18 to 16, a -2 Reduction. Though the Manual never speaks of this, We can conclude that Armour Crush is Cumulative, Whatsoever the circumstances.

I suggest you Equip Armour Crush to the faster units, who can easily attack opponents, or can hit Multiple Targets: Gremlins, Djinns and Rakshasa Ktsarra's benefit the most from this trait.

Armor Crush requires Ore and Sulphur

Attack: Self-explanatory, this traits raises the Wearer's attack, making it a non-magical and Permanent Righteous Might. I myself don't consider this trait very necessary, but as the Wizard's Defence is horrifying, it's not obsolete at all. Great paring with Battle Frenzy.

Basically the increasement in attack is 1 + 1 per 4 Knowledge, starting at Knowledge 4.

This means:
Know = 1 => + 1 Attack
Know = 4 => + 2 Attack
Know = 8 => + 3 Attack
Know = 12 => + 4 Attack
Know = 15 => + 5 Attack
....
Know = 60 => + 16 Attack

I suggest you give this to Creatures with Natural High Damage, but Weak-to-Mediocre Attack (Djinns, Rakshasas). Also good For units with High initiative, like Gremlins. But Never, ever give this to Gargoyles. Why bother, If there is not Damage to boost?

Attack costs Wood and Gems

Defence: Self-explanatory, this Trait gives additional Defence to a Target it can be seen as an additional Endurance, cumulative with the Spell .Again, I personally prefer other Traits, but as the Wizard's Defence is Abysmal, an extra boost is always welcome. Great with Vitality.

The Formula is the same as the one with Attack: 1 + 1 per 4 Knowledge, starting at Knowledge 4

This gives the Same Evolution:
Know = 1 => + 1 Defence
Know = 4 => + 2 Defence
Know = 8 => + 3 Defence
Know = 12 => + 4 Defence
Know = 15 => + 5 Defence
....
Know = 60 => + 16 Defence

I suggest you give those to Units with Weak Hit points (Djinns) or units that will have to endure a lot of attacks (Gremlins, Magi). Also good with Low-initiative troops, like Golems and Rakshasas.

Defence costs Wood and Crystal

Haste: Increases the Initiative of the wearer. Basically it's an additional Haste Spell (it cumulative with haste). One of the more powerful Traits, though Haste, if Available is better overall...

The Formula for Haste is: Knowledge = Initiative Bonus, Capped at Fifty.

That's easy. If your knowledge is 1, you have a +1% bonus, if your knowledge is 50, you have 50%, if your knowledge is 354, it's 50%.

Basically, the Light Magic Spell Haste is better than the Mini-artefact. However, it increases initiative Permanent and it work from the start of Combat. In addition, your Hero won't have to bother with Hastening your unit and can use is time to Conjure a Phoenix. Initiative Bonuses are Cumulative though and Combined with Djinns and Titans, it's plain overkill.

I mainly use Haste for units with Interesting Specials, like Djinns, Marble Gargoyles, Magnetic Golems, Rakshasa Ktsarras, Gremlins and Magi.

Haste costs Sulphur and Mercury

Health / At hit point Increasement which is only very effective in Large armies of Units with low hit points. Nevertheless, it can be useful if you are able get you knowledge high enough

The Health Formula is the following: 1 + 1 Per every 5 Knowledge, starting at Knowledge 5  

This gives the following boosts:

Know = 1 => + 1 Hit point to the wearer
Know = 5 => + 2 Hit point to the wearer
Know = 10 => + 3 Hit point to the wearer
Know = 15 => + 4 Hit point to the wearer
Know = 20 => + 5 Hit point to the wearer
...
Know = 60 => +13 Hit point to the wearer

As soon as you Knowledge passes 10 (which won't be long for the Wizard) the Health Effect will be larger than Vitality. The Wizards Knowledge can easily rise to 40 ( 9 Hit points) in longer games, and may even hit 60 (with the maximal bonus of 13!!!! Hit points) in Campaigns.


Of course this Is very interesting for Gremlins, who will last considerably longer than usual. Magi and Djinns benefit Greatly from the Hit point boost as well, and also Magnetic Golems are good candidates for these. Don’t bother with Rashshasas or Titans, the Bonus of 10 usually doesn't make a difference for them, except in vey large numbers.

Health costs Wood and Gems


Luck: Increases Luck of the Wearer. If you imbue you arties with Luck, you have a decisively less hard battle.

The Luck Modifier is 1 + 1 per 10 Knowledge, starting at level 10

this means you get +1 for 1, + 2 for 10, + 3 for 20 etc. As son as you get that + 3 bonus, the Luck Skill become (apart from it's perks) completely Obsolete. As the Cap is 5, 6 Luck won't increase the odds of Lucky strike. However, if you have some Luck in reserve, it will protect you against horrible spells and abilities like Sorrow Strike, the Sorrow Spell, the Cursed Ring and the dreaded Howl of Terror. If you don't face a potential Dark Caster, use the arties to replace Luck, so that you can use that skill slot for another skill, like Sorcery or a second Magic School (to give two examples). Overall, I combine both Skill and trait, if only to get the Benefit from Magic Resistance, Warlock's Luck or Resourcefullness. Handy for units that attack often, like Steel Golems (retaliation), Rakshasa Ktsarras, Titans, Djinns and Battle Mages

Luck costs Wood and Crystal.


Morale: increases the wearer's morale. When Playing Academy you usually are more likely to ger Luck that Leadership. You can compensate the low chances of Leadership by creating Morale Arties. they work Great with Retrubution, Empathy and Artificial GLory, if you manage to get those.

The Morale Formula is the same as the Luck Formula:  1 + 1 per 10 Knowledge, starting at level 10

In this case Morale Arties are more favourable to get than Luck Arties, because of the Rarity of the Leadership skill. Nevertheless, the Morale and Luck Arties work Excellent together, but which of the two you give (if you can't give both) depdns on the Skill and Artefacts the Hero has. Mainly, it's best to give Morale to Gremlins, Magi and Rakshasas while luck is better with Gargs, Golems and Djinns. Titans are excellent with both. If you manage to get Arteficial Glory, Empathy or Retribution, don't hesitate to hand out the Morale Arties massively. They can be very powerfull from Knowledge 10 on (+2 Morale). They, Like Luck arties, help countering Sorrow and Howl of Terror.

Morale Costs Ore and Sulphur

Protection: Makes the Creature Magic Proof: this Trait is very weak in the beginning, but is near Imbalance in the end. Imagine you have a Spell casting Runemage with Casts Expert Armageddon . you have Knowledge 25 and all your units (except the Magnetic Golems) have Magical Protection arties. The Armaggeddon will do only 76% of it's original Damage. These triats get pretty strong as soon as Reach Knowledge 2 (the Arties add 656% magic Proofness)

There is no Formula to calculate the Magic Proofness gained. I'll post the numbers here. Note that the Boost of the Artefacts is capped at 85%, even for magic Proof Units

Know = 1 => 6%
Know = 2 => 13%
Know = 3 => 19%
Know = 4 => 25%
Know = 5 => 29%
Know = 6 => 34%
Know = 7 => 37%
Know = 8 => 41%
Know = 9 => 44%
Know = 10 => 47%
Know = 11 => 49%
Know = 12 => 52%
Know = 13 => 54%
Know = 14 => 56%
Know = 15 => 58%
Know = 16 => 60%
Know = 17 => 61%
Know = 18 => 63%
Know = 19 => 64%
Know = 20 => 66%
Know = 21 => 67%
Know = 22 => 68%
Know = 24 => 69%
Know = 23 => 70%
Know = 25 => 71%
Know = 26 => 72%
Know = 27 => 73%
Know = 28 => 74%
Know = 29 => 75%
Know = 30 => 76%
Know = 32 => 77%
Know = 33 => 78%
Know = 35 => 79%
Know = 37 => 80%
Know = 39 => 81%
Know = 41 => 82%
Know = 45 => 83%
Know = 49 => 84%
Know = 60 => 85%

There is a Formula to calculate how much Magic Proof an already Magic Proof Creature would gain (Ie: Golems and Djinn Viziers)

The Formula is the Natural Protecion + (the Magic Proof Bonus * [100% - Natural Portection])

In case of Steel Golems in a heroes' army with 16 Knowledge (60% bonus), that would give: 75 + 25% of 60% = 75 + 15 = 90 (the Artefact bonus would be 85%, because The Protection is capped at 85%)

If we repeat this with Iron Golems we get: 50 + 50% of 60% = 50 + 30 80%

The Use of this trait is Self-explanatory: Usefull (if not overpowererd) against users of Destructive Magic (and Decay, Crystal, Fire Trap, etc). Only spell you have to be terryfied of is Fist of Wrath... Well... Kinda

IMPORTANT: IRRESISTABLE MAGIC AFFECT MAGICAL PROTECTION!! This is: It deceases its effectivity!!

Magical Protection requires Wood and Gems

Speed Increases the Speed of the Wearer. Against it's use is limited, but it is grossly overpowered in late game.

The Formula of Speed Calculation is the same as the one for Armour Crush:  1 + 1 Extra per every 15 Knowledge, starting at Knowledge 15.

This means:
Know = 1 => + 1 To Speed
Know = 15 => + 2 To Speed
Know = 30=> + 3 To Speed
Know = 45 => + 4 To Speed
Know = 60 => + 5 To Speed

As soon as you get a Knowledge of 30 (a pece of cake in the Late-game, due to Enlightment and artefacts) the arties give your units an astonishing 3 (!!) Speed. Imagine this with Golems and Artificial Glory, or with Rakshasas/Marble Gargoyles/Collosi. No here's the Catch: Most units of Academy are either Ranged or Spellcasters, making this trait a little bit redundant. I personally see that as a bonus; simply spend your resources to another trait. Like I said, Equip this to you Golems and Rakshasas (Preferably Rajas) and possible Marlbe Gargoyles and Charge the opponent. Great if Combined with the Luck, Initiative and Armour Crush traits.

Speed costs Ore and Mercury




Mini-Arties are expensive, but are well worth it. Attack, Defence and Leadership are extremely rare skills for Magi, and one cannot always rely on the Enlightement Skill or the Artefact Merchant to get enough Att/Def/Morale values. Artificier, although expensive, is the only reliable way for a Mage to fix this. In addition, no other Faction has direct and reliable access to a means of increasing Speed, Initiative or Magic-Proofness, aside from the occasional artefacts. It's extremely important in the end-game, and makes Academy Troops extremely hard to beat. If it weren't for the High Resource costs, I would call it overpowered.
____________
Coincidence? I think not!!!!

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Petka
Petka

Tavern Dweller
posted July 14, 2010 04:05 PM

I am never using artificing skill in first 3 weeks. The only reason for me to do this could be some vital mine with nasty guards on it. Then i would make artifact just for using it as ressurect (wizards racial ability).

When gaining mastery i am using folowing boost in artificial:

Gremlins:
+hp
+def
+ini

no for magic prot, no warlock will target them with his precious single target destro spell, and for aoe golems standing just next to gremlins >;P
no for armor ignoring - to low effect and i am not going last battle more than 2 rounds... if there will be third one then its jus for clearin battle area ;P

Gargoyle:
+hp
+def
+speed

no for luck (they are not meaned to do dmg anyway why to double pathetic dmg ?)

golems:
+hp
+def
+atack

why no for speed ? (not using them on rushing atacks)

Mages:
+ini
+magic rez
+hp

Genies:
+speed
+atack/+luck
+def

They have good dmg so why not boost it with atack multiplier ? They are squishy so covering them a bit helps a lot.

rajas:
+speed
+atack
+luck

Titans:
+ini
+atack
+luck


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jackielav
jackielav

Tavern Dweller
posted July 18, 2010 06:15 PM

Yes, I use it.
____________

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