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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: Necropolis weaknes - Did they give us alternative for playing after TotE?
Thread: Necropolis weaknes - Did they give us alternative for playing after TotE? This thread is 3 pages long: 1 2 3 · NEXT»
VokialBG
VokialBG


Honorable
Legendary Hero
First in line
posted October 08, 2007 07:38 PM
Edited by VokialBG at 19:58, 08 Oct 2007.

Necropolis weaknes - Did they give us alternative for playing after TotE?

After seening some post in different threads, I decided to start this.

This topic is for the weak sides of Necropolis (or maybe its start of new topic series for the weak sides of all towns). Heroes 5 and HoF's patches changes the game a lot, TotE will add even more new changes and stuffs, the game will be never same. I'll just try to collect the weak sides of Necropolis, and my vision of the TotE changes - new weakness, of course not everyone will agree with me, but you always can post here with what you agree and don't agree.

The Necromancer as hero class - not well built hybrid, and the magic schools he use

The Necromancer is magic type of hero, he start with 0 Attack, 1 Defense, 3 Spellpower and 1 Knowladge. He doesn't have endless mana (like the academy heroes), but he have good amount of Spellpower. Actually we can't look at the Necromancer as pure magic class he is something more... Most of the Necropolis town creatures rely from meele (even the liches) you can note this in the magic schools, which the Necromancer use - Summoning and Dark. Dark is kind of anti-inspire magic which aim to make the enemy more vulnerable to your creatures attack, and since the Necropolis creatures use meele, more vulnerable to meele attacks made by your creatures. You can easy see the point of the other magic school - Summoning, the summoning spell aim to keep the count of your troops and summon more warriors on your side, which actually if we look on it from the right point can be more effective with better might hero. The Necromancer is hero who look like (In dependence of his role) more to Haven hero than to Academy, and (In dependence of his stats and skills) like Academy or Dungeon here.  Thats why we can call to him not a magic class but hybrid class, sadly not well built and not on the right place.

After I just said my point for the hero role and why the spells he use are more useful for meele class we can look deeply in the magic schools used by the Necromancer - Summoning and Dark, if look in AoH or open the spell scrips (like me) you can easy see that almost all of the spells in Summoning and Dark (The important spells - all) doesn't benefit from spellpower, they get nothing, spellpower help a lot with Destructive spells but not with Dark, so the stats of the Necromancer doesn't really help much in fight, he also get Defense as meele stat, when most of the units are not defensive but offensive. The spell of Summoning and Dark need more mana not spellpower - passive stat here.

The Necromancer will work much better if he is more might orientated class with a bit more passive magic role.

The mess in Necropolis army

Necropolis has creatures with interesting and unique for their race abilities.

But why the units are so "feeble" (not my words they are used by many skilled Necropolis players)?

Lets have one small walk near the barracks of Necropolis.

- Level 1-3 units

Also know as "first units" basicly weak for every town (meaning weak cuz they are low level units I speak in general). These early units are very important in the game start and later in important or final battles (they actually form half of you army stacks). Skeleton Archers was good cuz of their large quantity, which was able to reach via the old Necromancy skill (changed after a patch) anyway they will be one of the first units which the enemy will attack, small stack size and low stats mean - dead for them the whole point of the skeletons was - many many... big stack size to compensate the low stats, after they get smaller size... they are just weak as before but lower in quantity. This make them easy target, and weak damage dealers. Zombies (claim for the tanks of Necropolis by someone) have not bad (pretty decently) ability for level 2, but the low speed and initiative will not allow you to action with them more then 1-3 times (max) + the low stats... this makes them meatshield with low durability. Spectres contrary to their ability are pretty easy targets, they can do better work in late game, when they are many... really many.

As all other races have at least 1 decently unit level 1-3 for early and later - low level backbone, Necropolis doesn't (Probably this problem will be a bit fixed with TotE - the new Skeleton warriors maybe will give us small surprise, and the new Zombies will do something on the battlefield).

- No promising shooter unit

In Heroes 5 army with no shooters will cause a lot of troubles. I already said the weak point of the skeleton's. If your army have no shooters it need better fighters, Necropolis hasn't better fighters but it hasn't good shooters too. The large size of the Liches and their low speed and bad initiative makes them almost never workable as shooter, they may only help with some spell before the enemy take them out. The Death Cloud ability is pretty good but you'll use it not more then 1 (2 max) times in battle.

- Weakest Level 7... Expensive bones for soup

The Spectral Dragon is the unit with the largest requirements to have in your army in the game! But they are also the weakest unit in the game (for their level if we put coefficient on them, even the Zombies and unupgraded Imps will get more) Weak level 7, when all other towns have good of them, they are the strongest unit for al others... mean troubles... many of them and the hight requirements probably will mean 1 free slot, which is actually better to have for some reinforcement of joined neutrlas of creatures from Necromancy.

- ...and in general...

As all other towns have good or at last decent backbone of their army (Haven - Squire, Academy - Steel Golems, Sylavan - Master Hunter, Fotress have even more then 1) Necropolis doesn't, and since they need something to take the enemy hits and to do attacks, having no promising shooter, the Necropolis player operate with 2 units - Vampire Lords and Wraiths (I hope you all get why only 2 if you read carefully my statement) He will simple force them to do everything, maybe not intentional, but the player will do it, the problem is that Vampire Lords are only level 4 and Wraiths are somehow vulnerable with  their poor abilities for level 6. Don't like it? Anyway they are your only workable units!

Town development problems

Necropolis town is a problem... or maybe not the town but the  requirements, you'll need at least 2 mines for ore (Resource Silo for wood and ore will be much more useful for Necropolis, since they need them more, and the player don't suffer much without Spectral Dragon). The building for level 7 in this town is the building with largest requirements in the game and it provides you with the most patetic, weak, pointless and not workable creature in the game.

Ultimate skill.. or Howl of Weakness

To get the last Necropolis skill - Howl of Terror after TotE is not wise decision:

1. You need Enlightenment, which is not that bad but in late game is somehow better to take something other with will help you more.
2. In TotE you'll have Sorrow spell which is only -2 morale (but it also reduce the luck, Howl of Terror affect only the morale) after the Howl

Skills like Cold Steel and Hounted Mines are no more able to get as before, cuz they need useless skills as requirements. (See Skill weel for TotE)

We also have Empathy which can't be used by Necropolis.

Heroic agony?

Maybe is not notably but Necropolis benefit something from TotE, probably chance for fixing part of the poor built front line, maybe finally Level 1-3 backbone and useful Liches, maybe they will finally be able to help to Vampires Lords and Wraith in time of troubles? Even this will not reprieve the heroic agony of Necropolis and the last Necropolis players in Heroes of Might and Magic 5!
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WarLore
WarLore


Famous Hero
servant of urgash
posted October 08, 2007 07:48 PM

this one was interesting thread,i argee most types,your army's main strength becomes wraiths,archliches and vampire lords.u forgot she/he on your text
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VokialBG
VokialBG


Honorable
Legendary Hero
First in line
posted October 08, 2007 08:08 PM

They are in it, with Liches I mean all types of them, anyway I hope this topic give more points of view to all players to Necropolis as playable town. My aim to post it is to be interesting and to make us to think about the stupid decisions of Nival about Necropolis.
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Nirual
Nirual


Famous Hero
Imbued Ballista
posted October 08, 2007 08:10 PM

It's fun how most people can't see past the old massive skeleton archer stacks and see that the new necromancy will get you at least an equal strenght in raised undeads, only that you can pick what you need the most, like Vampires.

Other than that, I mostly agree with the statements made. Creeping with the starter army is a pain, and I usually upgrade skeletons before I engage anything. The issue quickly goes away once you raised some decent units, though.

However, the cost of the Bone Dragon Dwelling is just silly. The most expensive dwelling in the game for the weakest tier 7 creature in the game? yeah right.
Now, I can see the idea of having weaker, but more numerous creatures on the undead side, but how is that supposed to work like that? If you even manage to build the dwelling, most enemies will already have at least one weekly growth headstart with their more powerful Black Dragons and whatnot.

I still have hopes though, seeing as the new necromancy system is much more interesting, and they even managed to change the amulet of necromancy to a more useful bonus in TotE, a bonus that actually might be better than the Pendant of Mastery for the same reason.
Then again, they added Empathy to necro leadership...
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PaleMaster
PaleMaster


Hired Hero
posted October 08, 2007 08:11 PM

i agree in some points, that the requirements for spectral dragons are very high, and they are weakest lvl7
the ore requirements are high too, but the other towns have also similar problems
but dont agree on howl of terror thing, enlightenment is one of the greatest skill in the game
dont agree also on necromancer thing, necros were always mage type heros and they fit perfectly well here too
and about the key units: u missed ghosts, i think they are one of the best units overall in game and in necromancers army too, have u tried them with arcan armor up? they are almost impossible to kill

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phoenixreborn
phoenixreborn


Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
posted October 08, 2007 08:19 PM

Quote:

The Necromancer will work much better if he is more might orientated class with a bit more passive magic role.



So what would you want the percentages to be for ADKS?

I was thinking a similar way when I was wishing the Ranger would have more spellpower and less knowledge.

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VokialBG
VokialBG


Honorable
Legendary Hero
First in line
posted October 08, 2007 08:39 PM
Edited by VokialBG at 20:43, 08 Oct 2007.

Quote:
It's fun how most people can't see past the old massive skeleton archer stacks and see that the new necromancy will get you at least an equal strenght in raised undeads, only that you can pick what you need the most, like Vampires.


1. The DE is one for all heroes is not 150 per hero.
2. Some vampires or liches per week will not help much as some k skeletons

The missing backbone (level 1-3) and agian level 7... this is prerequisite for the fast dead of Vampires and Liches you'll get from Necromancy, bigger stack of Skeletons on save place mean better damage dealing.

Quote:

dont agree also on necromancer thing, necros were always mage type heros and they fit perfectly well here too


You miss that in Heroes 2 the heroes doesn't have speciality in Heroes 3 there are might and magic classes for all towns and in heroes 4 the heroes have no well orientated speciality to, but there are might and magic classes as well, there is no such a tradition in HoMM series for the Necropolis hero to be magic only.

Quote:

and about the key units: u missed ghosts, i think they are one of the best units overall in game and in necromancers army too, have u tried them with arcan armor up? they are almost impossible to kill


As I said they are good when they get really many, in other cases they are just lunch for Paladins, Archangels, and othe units with good speed and initiative. Also they can miss only 3 times consequently. Mana Drain is... just poor ability.

Quote:
Quote:

The Necromancer will work much better if he is more might orientated class with a bit more passive magic role.



So what would you want the percentages to be for ADKS?

I was thinking a similar way when I was wishing the Ranger would have more spellpower and less knowledge.


Discussion about new stats is more for Altar of wishes, but all the stats need change the abilities too, anyway the Necropolis must get more hybrid stuffs he need to be better in might and to have stats from which his spells benefit more - mana not spellpower. Also it will be interesting if the affect of his spells benefit from his meele stats. Like seals of Unholy runes... etc... but this is for the altar.
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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted October 08, 2007 08:40 PM

Quote:

Actually we can't look at the Necromancer as pure magic class he is something more... Most of the Necropolis town creatures rely from meele (even the liches) you can note this in the magic schools, which the Necromancer use - Summoning and Dark.

So? Even if they depend on melee necro is more of magic town - it just can work as a hybrid too. Academy is magic but can go might if it chooses so. The fact that most of its units are melee is irrelevant.

Quote:
The Necromancer is hero who look like (In dependence of his role) more to Haven hero than to Academy, and (In dependence of his stats and skills) like Academy or Dungeon here.  Thats why we can call to him not a magic class but hybrid class, sadly not well built and not on the right place.

Too many parallels to academy to even assume that. Slow, tanky units and mirror image schools: Summoning with light against dark. Haven is meant to bless and charge ahead something that necropolis cannot.

Quote:
..You can easy see that almost all of the spells in Summoning and Dark (The important spells - all) doesn't benefit from spellpower, they get nothing, spellpower help a lot with Destructive spells but not with Dark, so the stats of the Necromancer doesn't really help much in fight, he also get Defense as meele stat, when most of the units are not defensive but offensive. The spell of Summoning and Dark need more mana not spellpower - passive stat here.

You are mistaken. Fire trap, firewall, arcane armor, phoenix, frenzy, blind and puppet are spellpower dependant and they are crucial. Have you tried using high dark spells with a demonlord? Also if they had attack as secondary they be deader meat. Almost all factions can charge them and take the first blow, that's why they need defense. If for instance you are attacked by sylvan with good luck and your key units favoured and have little defense you are a goner. They act fast and you can't keep up with raising or summoning.

skeletons weak damage dealers and zombies meatshield with low durability?

Quote:
As all other races have at least 1 decently unit level 1-3 for early and later - low level backbone, Necropolis doesn't.

You don't need it. Even with those necro is imba and has probably the best creeping.

Quote:
Vampire Lords are only level 4 and Wraiths are somehow vulnerable with  their poor abilities for level 6. Don't like it? Anyway they are your only workable units!

They are pretty decent and can be raised.

Quote:
1. You need Enlightenment, which is not that bad but in late game is somehow better to take something other with will help you more.
2. In TotE you'll have Sorrow spell which is only -2 morale (but it also reduce the luck, Howl of Terror affect only the morale) after the Howl

One word, intelligence. Motn is good but starting with enough mana is crucial. Note that I wouldn't go for ultimate most probably but comparing the ultimate with a spell that affects only one unit...

Quote:
Heroic agony?

I beg your pardon? At least necro can keep creeping and won't be hurt by less resources much as the other factions.
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Juoksentelisinkohan?

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VokialBG
VokialBG


Honorable
Legendary Hero
First in line
posted October 08, 2007 08:56 PM

Quote:
Quote:

Actually we can't look at the Necromancer as pure magic class he is something more... Most of the Necropolis town creatures rely from meele (even the liches) you can note this in the magic schools, which the Necromancer use - Summoning and Dark.

So? Even if they depend on melee necro is more of magic town - it just can work as a hybrid too. Academy is magic but can go might if it chooses so. The fact that most of its units are melee is irrelevant.


This is what I mean here, its more magic hero not might but he'll be probably better if he is might (like a dark version of the Knight here, as you said, Haven bless and charge, Necropolis role must be different - weak the enemies and charge)

Quote:
Quote:
As all other races have at least 1 decently unit level 1-3 for early and later - low level backbone, Necropolis doesn't.


You don't need it. Even with those necro is imba and has probably the best creeping.


Try to stop company of Paladins with ghosts they will kill them with one hit.

Quote:
Quote:
Vampire Lords are only level 4 and Wraiths are somehow vulnerable with  their poor abilities for level 6. Don't like it? Anyway they are your only workable units!


They are pretty decent and can be raised.


And what you'll get? Some Vampires maybe...

Quote:
Quote:
1. You need Enlightenment, which is not that bad but in late game is somehow better to take something other with will help you more.
2. In TotE you'll have Sorrow spell which is only -2 morale (but it also reduce the luck, Howl of Terror affect only the morale) after the Howl

One word, intelligence. Motn is good but starting with enough mana is crucial. Note that I wouldn't go for ultimate most probably but comparing the ultimate with a spell that affects only one unit...


There are simply a lot of more useful skills for Necropolis you not have free slot for this. I have posted this in other topics.

Quote:
Quote:
Heroic agony?

I beg your pardon? At least necro can keep creeping and won't be hurt by less resources much as the other factions.


Never said creeping is weak with Necropolis, but the resources... Necropolis is the town with hightest requirements
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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted October 08, 2007 09:06 PM

Raised I mean with the spell No losses with boosted number and defense does help a bit. But the defense is not enough for you to go go hand to hand with a might faction. Attack only if they had a better initiative.

Quote:
Try to stop company of Paladins with ghosts they will kill them with one hit.

Company depends on how many we are talking about But mass vulnerability makes them lay hands on each other and you can keep shooting. With motn raise dead and a guild 2 you can do many things.

I disagree with some of your points because necro has other benefits.
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Juoksentelisinkohan?

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VokialBG
VokialBG


Honorable
Legendary Hero
First in line
posted October 08, 2007 09:14 PM
Edited by VokialBG at 21:25, 08 Oct 2007.

Quote:
Raised I mean with the spell No losses with boosted number and defense does help a bit. But the defense is not enough for you to go go hand to hand with a might faction. Attack only if they had a better initiative.

Quote:
Try to stop company of Paladins with ghosts they will kill them with one hit.

Company depends on how many we are talking about But mass vulnerability makes them lay hands on each other and you can keep shooting. With motn raise dead and a guild 2 you can do many things.

I disagree with some of your points because necro has other benefits.


Anyway I get your point... rises with Rise Death is good only against neutrals, otherwise its not really good idea for useing it lots of times in battle (on one creature stack) the result will be 1hp creature, cuz of the spell penalty:

Reanimates creatures in target friendly stack. Undead creatures are brought back to "life", all other creatures are re-animated for the duration of the battle only. Every use of this spell decreases hit points of target stack by 20%.

Using this spell will probably make you even weaker.

As for the benefits its true Necropolis have good sides to, but this thread is for the weak sides... anyway Necropolis is town with much weak sides, in profit and low good sides.

Creeping is one of the good sides.

P.S.

Puppet Master and the other strong spells you mension will simply drain your mana fast even if you use Puppet the puppeted creatures will have turn slowly, the other enemy units will simply kill you before you have time to cast it, most of the Necropolis players  do this instinctive:

The army of Necropolis is low on initiative, the enemy is almost always first, if he have good speed he'll kill many with his first action when his units are not weaked by magic and are in totally full   quantity. then the player will use Rise Death not Puppet and when the next turn come... he will cast it again cuz he loose troops fast. Sorcery can help here.
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sdfx
sdfx


Famous Hero
posted October 08, 2007 09:25 PM

IMO, the philosophy behind necro is something like: let's gather the strength by beating up the weak. Let's become the true manace for those who can't defend themself(I mean AI of course). We have the best skills to totally dominate those fools(summoning and dark are best skills vs AI). Our mana is endless(MotN + elementals/phoenix vs AI) and we shall dominate bla bla..

Necro is overall easily the best creeping faction - also, they can break a VERY strong AI block very early. I must say:
No way is really blocked for a necromancer
Their AI pwnage skill actually make sense because their ratial(exceptional 15% chance to get it) is all about killing creeps. They even have a perk to make less loses during creeping - eternal servitude is purely a creeping skill and completly-not a main(ending) battle skill.

So necro fight strong stuff early and once creeping doesn't pay off that much then it's time to attack - it will happen very early too because important AI guards are pwned very early.. Poor AI is so lost vs ghosts fodders, dark and summoning.

To sum up: best necro = best abuse vs AI = best stuff from the map = best chance for the win. It's very fortunate that best creeping skills  also happen to be the best skills for bringing the enemy hero down as well(but not too late of course).

Enlightenment is the skill that every hero desires sooner or later.

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pinkspear
pinkspear


Known Hero
Crazy like a fool
posted October 08, 2007 10:25 PM

What about the alternative upgrades? Ok, we can't test them right now, but in paper they seem rather helpful for the faction. My theory:

1.From the level 1-3 alt. upgrades, only the disease zombie seems better than the other upg. since it has a better ability and +2 hp which is good for such a tanky unit.

2.If the nosferatu's sleeping strike freezes the atb value, then it will be really helpful blocking troublesome walkers/or shooters who have good damage but low hp(e.g. master hunters).They retain their life drain ability, and that's pretty good with the +5 hp they receive.

3.Lich masters will have the raise dead spell, which they can cast twice per combat which helps a lot because they have an ok spellpower.Also they're even more durable with a whopping +15 hp and slightly boosted stats.

4.I think that after Tote necropolis becomes a faction that focuses on lowering the enemy's morale and luck and that's where the banshees and sorrow dragons ability helps. With these morale and luck reduction enemy creatures (hopefully) will have less acts and lucky attacks, and that means longer battles, where the necromancer can win with raising, and casting powerful dark spells. Also the new spells vampirism and sorrow will help when using this tactic.

What do you think about this?

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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted October 08, 2007 11:34 PM

I must agree with what several others have said here: Necropolis are not really very week, if they are no way near their previous power, that's only because they are beginning to become balanced.

Complaining that new Necropolis is "no way near as strong as back when you could raise 1K skeletons" is just a good proof of this. H3 Necropolis was banned because they were unstoppable, and new Necropolis was no better before patching. Necropolis creatures are somewhat below par because you are supposed to gather them in greater numbers, and no matter how you see it, the Skeleton Archer is not a particularly bad unit - it's actually a fairly decent level 1 unit, and for that reason alone, it does not make sense to have it come in 10-20 times normal numbers from a balance point of view. New Necromancy will allow you to have a somewhat increased growth, which means perhaps you will have 50 % extra creatures in one or two levels if you focus on these, which will match the power defficiency pretty well - after all, Necropolis creatures are not half as good as other creatures of same level.

I think Necromancer stats are fairly good for his purpose: You don't need Knowledge, MOTN is supposed to take care of that by rejunivating mana during combat. Attack is kind of useless when your creatures are very slow, so Defence will help you withstand the first assault you will be subject to in most situations. And Spellpower is very useful, not only for those high-level spells, but also for crucial spells like Raise Dead (!), Firetraps and Decay, which all are crucial during creeping.

As for the other issues, I have to say - apart from the Dragon issue, I don't think Necropolis resource requirements are much worse than any of the other towns. Howl Of Terror ... don't know if you've ever tried it, but all I have to say is - no, it's not underpowered at all. Perhaps you won't feel the full potential when playing vs. a Leadership-specialized Knight, but even then, it will probably save your ... big time, because without it his stacks would be all over the place. And vs. Heroes without Leadership, it almost certainly means -4 or -5 morale, which is totally devastating.
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Nirual
Nirual


Famous Hero
Imbued Ballista
posted October 08, 2007 11:47 PM

Quote:
[Anyway I get your point... rises with Rise Death is good only against neutrals, otherwise its not really good idea for useing it lots of times in battle (on one creature stack) the result will be 1hp creature, cuz of the spell penalty:

Reanimates creatures in target friendly stack. Undead creatures are brought back to "life", all other creatures are re-animated for the duration of the battle only. Every use of this spell decreases hit points of target stack by 20%.

Using this spell will probably make you even weaker.




The key is to use Raise Death smartly. A few uses on battered vampires actually aren't that bad, since it means they can raise their remaining losses more easily (same amount of Life Drained, but less health to fill for each raise). First Aid Tend also gets more effective in that regard. And in ToTE, the same approach can be used with just about any of your creatures when enchanted with vampirism (I wonder if the Lifedrain works with ranged attacks...).

Also, sometimes a 1hp ghost stack can be a great distraction, especially for the AI-controlled towers. In fact, they are much like Phantom Forces, except that they retain the mana drain (in case you can actually make use of it), and don't die altogether from a hero attack.

Also, by the way, it's still possible to raise a decent amount of skeleton archers if you focus on that. I'm not talking about the 5k+ stacks of the olden days, but 1-2k is still doable. I often end up with 500-800 skeleton archers engame, even though I usually focus on Vampires, Wraiths and Liches.
Little trick to get the most skeletons out of necromancy: focus on raising unupgraded skeletons (less DE cost) and upgrade them at the town.
Also, I usually hire Havez at the tavern if he shows up. Reason:
60-90 gremlins to convert to skeletons at the altar, plus a Ballista and Ammo Cart, just for 3000 gold.
Ellaine works also pretty well, as she can stay in your own and boost skeleton growth, maybe even also get estates if 2 domes of experience are near.
Ingvar is pretty decent for that purpose too, although he has no extra benefits.
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In ur base killing ur doods... and raising them as undeads.

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phoenixreborn
phoenixreborn


Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
posted October 09, 2007 04:38 AM

I will further add that in my view it goes like this:

Demon - offenisve might
Knight - balanced might
Ranger - defensive might
Warlock - offensive magic
Wizard - balanced magic
Necro - defensive magic

So it makes sense from a global perspective.

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Mytical
Mytical


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
posted October 09, 2007 06:22 AM

A necromancer not expanding (and killing neutral stacks) is a necromancer that is going to be defeated.  I am beginning to like what I am hearing from ToTE.  Seems to be getting more and more balanced.  People have their favorite towns, and when they hear what is lost or downgraded they get upset.  To me it just means that maybe they are trying to get everything balanced.  Now if only they would balance the ultimates .

Dark and Summoning magic are the best magic for necros.  One for Raise Dead, the other to balance other units with their own.  Remember, there are other dark spells besides puppet master.  Yes, from the sounds of it they are weaker, but other towns are also.  I think it will balance out in the end.
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VokialBG
VokialBG


Honorable
Legendary Hero
First in line
posted October 09, 2007 07:40 AM

Probably cant believe but I'm one of the most skilled Necropolis player here. From the first day H5 was publish I have it and from the first day I play Necropolis and when I play Heroes I play Necropolis only to now. I stated the game with other town like... 3-4 times per all others races, they get me bored and I keep playing with Necropolis, I tried almost all possible scenario for undeads, every skill combination every frontline combination, every spell combination everything! And they get weaker and weaker with every patch and addon, towns like Academy was strong in the original Heroes 5 1.0 but they get stranger and stranger... and stranoger...

Necropolis is probably hidden powerful competitor. But it also is the most difficult town to play.

Also from now I want to bring in here 2 new term used in World of Warcraft:

PvE skills and PvP skills.

PvE skills are skill for fast leveling, geting items, killing NPC's etc... creeping..... This skills help to explore the map and killing neutrals but agains players they are passive Logistics is PvE skill as it help for fast exploring the map. Elightenment is PvE too it help in Leveling and geting spells and joined neutrals

PvP are skills used against other players they help in direct battle. Like Luck and Leadership.

Skills like Elightenment are exporing skills. Passive for PvP

Howl of Terror is weak cuz we have nice Level 1 spell substitute, able to almost all towns, and this substitute is even kind of better.

The whole point of race like Necropolis is mistaken. Necropolis is opposition as we see in the game storyline, they must be what Haven and Academy are not.

Seening the HoMM5 as WoW clone (and it is pure clone) you can see what was the try of Nival here.

I dont want to  comment creartures more. Probably Doomforge will say something for them as always
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Nirual
Nirual


Famous Hero
Imbued Ballista
posted October 09, 2007 08:19 AM

Heroes is a WoW clone? Try again, it's not even a Warcraft clone. The Orcs are suspisously similiar to their green wc3 counterparts, and there can be some parallels drawn between some other creatures (peasants for example, even though they look completely different in Warcraft), but it's still a TBS we are talking about here, and just like in Warcraft itself (which some may think copied Heroes in the first place, what with hero units and neutral creeps to kill for extre exp and money), creeping sucess eventually benefits you when it comes to fighting other players. The faster you can get mines, the more resources you have in the long run to expand your town, and the less losses it takes you to get them, the stronger your army will be when the time comes to face the enemy hero.
And that's precisely where Necropolis is strong.

Playing Kaspar, I can win most fights versus neutrals without any losses in quick combat, and I'm not talking about Horned Overseers, but the classical annoying Master Hunters. And if the quick combat results don't please me (ie more than 5-6 skeleton archers lost that will be raised with Eternal Servitude), I can always fight it myself and do it better.
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In ur base killing ur doods... and raising them as undeads.

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R-b-t3r
R-b-t3r


Hired Hero
posted October 09, 2007 08:28 AM

Quote:
Probably cant believe but I'm one of the most skilled Necropolis player here.


Quote:
Necropolis is probably hidden powerful competitor. But it also is the most difficult town to play.

These statements are self-contradictory my friend. Necro in fact IS the easiest of all the towns to play. Especially if you have a previous heroes experience.
I have seen a friend play HOF for the very first time using necro in heroic mode, strong creeps, random map and he thrashed fortress!

I believe that you severely underestimate necro and his chances in the early and mid games where he SHOULD strike first. You are obviously making the mistake of going late game with necro which is plain wrong when you look at the skill distribution and spell schools available.

I know that necro used to be like that in H3 or H5 pre-patch but nowadays Necro is a rusher because he is a caster. Necromancy simply counterweights the un-availability of a decent 7 level unit and therefore implies that you should rush before the opponents 6th and 7th tier become numerous and capable of turning the tide.



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