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| Thread: Heroes 5 TotE Strategy: Playing Stronghold Faction |  This thread is pages long: 1 ... 4 5 6 7 8 ... 10 20 28 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Cleave
Promising
Famous Hero
Raging Blood
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posted November 04, 2007 04:47 PM |
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Edited by Cleave at 16:49, 04 Nov 2007.
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Check the manual page 324:
Quote:
Defile Magic
When a stack of Goblin Witch-Doctors marks an enemy caster to defile its magic, it will trigger on the
next spell cast by the target, and there are 4 possible outcomes:
1. the spell fails
2. the caster's effective Spell Power for this spell is halved
3. the spell cost is doubled
4. the Goblins' attempt fails, their ATB value is reset to 0, and if the spell is a damaging or cursing
non-area spell, it is cast on the Goblins at no cost for the caster.
The values N(t) and N(g) are computed in a similar way as for Set Snares, with N(g) computed when the target tries to
cast the spell, rather than when the Goblins activate the ability. If the target is a hero, the following formula is used:
N(t) = Hero_Level + Spell_Level
The probabilities of the 4 possible outcomes are 10%/40%/40%/10%, shifted by every point of difference of N(g) and
N(t), like for Set Snares. If several Defile Magic are used on the same target, only the strongest is considered. Once it is
set, the Defile Magic effect can not be dispelled.
Goblins' treacherous activities — Advanced Game Mechanics Heroes of Might and Magic V (3.0)
324 Ubisoft: www.mightandmagic.com
From the games I've played I believe you need a really large stack to get something from defile magic.
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koVe
Tavern Dweller
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posted November 26, 2007 12:30 AM |
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I really want to like Barbs but I think their shatter skills aren't powerful enough. Unlike almost all other skills available, these skills do almost nothing to help you creep and are only effective if the other player is using the particular field. If you're taking 1-6 skills that are really only effective against other heroes that are using that particular magic line, then they should be extremely powerful against them.
I think the shatters are pretty effective against summoning and destruct, but these aren't things the barbs generally have a problem with anyway. They also have other skills in other trees that effect the power of these and lower the damage pretty well with rage, barb luck, resistance, etc. I do not think that the light and dark shatters are good enough. I think these should give a 'chance to fail' that increases per level. Right now Shatter Dark is basically good for one thing, and that's to prevent cyclops from being targetted at expert. While this is extremely important, this is way too limited. I think a % to fail should be added to the light and dark shatters, something like 15% per level, so 45% at expert.
That might sound overpowered, but again, unlike almost all other skills, they are simply counters and as counters, they should be very strong against the particular magic tree they're countering.
Another possible buff could be to combine the trees into 2 skills instead of 4. Something like Dark and summon in one shatter, and light and destruct in the other. Since the effects are so much narrower than other skills, I think combining the trees would be fine. Combining them into 1 skill would make them a complete no brainer, but I think two would be fair.
Otherwise, I like the barbs. Rage is useful in any situation both offensively and defensively, and the warcries are fine. The power of the creatures combined with rage does make them potent melee, and I think these would be well balanced if the shatters were more powerful.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted November 26, 2007 12:50 AM |
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You MUST be kidding. Try them first.
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koVe
Tavern Dweller
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posted November 26, 2007 02:51 AM |
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Adon
Known Hero
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posted November 26, 2007 04:10 AM |
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Quote:
You MUST be kidding. Try them first.
That does seem to warrant some elaboration Elvin.
The thing about the shatter series to me is that other factions develop counters for other factions but still benefit in other ways from the skills they choose when creeping. Whereas the shatter series is strictly a "other player" counter and of no benefit to creeping. And from my experience, stronghold isn't better at creeping than other factions (which would allow them to free up a skill slot); though its not the worst either.
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vicheron
Known Hero
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posted November 26, 2007 06:15 AM |
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What I find the most annoying about Stronghold is how expensive adventure spells are. With 5000 gold, 12 wood and ore, and 9 of each precious resource you could almost build a 4th level Mage Guild. What's worse is that you still have to pay to upgrade even if the spell is disabled.
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guarder
Supreme Hero
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posted November 26, 2007 07:05 AM |
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They are barbarians. Be happy Nival don't disabled them too.
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted November 26, 2007 07:38 AM |
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Never really tested this, but the shatter skills should also affect neutral casters. For instance, shatter destructive to help against Archmages fireball, or Druids Lightning and Stone spikes. Shatter Dark vs Liches or Shadow Matriarchs, or even Djinn. Since they have no other way to reduce, counter, or even remove effects (from dark)..it can be very helpful. Magic using creatures are a pain for Barbs to creep. With these skills, if they affect the creatures as well (could somebody check if this is the case) it would be well worth taking. Especially if the enemy might take the same schools or there is a memory mentor on the map.
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Message received.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted November 26, 2007 12:06 PM |
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First of all stronghold has very good creeping if played correctly. The only thing I fear is big high tier stacks before first month but I have not tried it tbh. I am not sure if shatter works against neutral casters but it is too good against an enemy and who said that all skills have a creeping value? Shatter can determine a game, that should be good enough.
Have you tried to attack barbarians with a warlock? With expert shatter it tickles not to mention the corrupt perk that drains their mana asap. Knights? Righteous magic gives the awesome bonus of +3(!) to all his army, terrifying no? Only dark seems a little bad because it does not help a lot with puppet. Still only duration 1 for frenzy and weakening the effect of the others is great.
The reason I made that reply is because I find them a bit TOO strong. Yes you have to invest and it's still 5% but shatters skills pop up often.
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted November 26, 2007 01:07 PM |
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Elvin, which Shatter you take against Haven?
Sure it can be game deciding, the Shatter Skills are very good when they work and are correctly chosen. But it can be totally useless when the Haven didn't go for Light but Dark.
And btw Expert Shatter Light reduces Expert Light Magic spells 1-3 to Basic which in case of Righteous Might is +6 attack, not +3.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted November 26, 2007 01:16 PM |
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My bad. About haven it's a toss up really. Either school can work fine with haven so you can never be too sure while getting an extra might skill always works. I need more experience to tell.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted November 26, 2007 01:17 PM |
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You can pretty much assume a good haven player will go full dark against you. Happened to me already.. ~~
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted November 26, 2007 01:19 PM |
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That said I fear dark more than light. At least they cost more mana so corrupt dark can ensure the knight won't cast many.
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted November 26, 2007 01:33 PM |
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Yep, that is what I'd do as well... but then again taking Light might be better if the Barba is going for Expert Shatter Dark every time. The Knight can pick either school and use it to its advantage - while Barba has to randomly take either Shatter Skill and it might end up 3-5 level ups in vain.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted November 26, 2007 01:43 PM |
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exactly. 
That makes haven a decent counter for stronghold, actually.
Divine vengeance can finish off executioners and cyclopes easily if they do too much damage, and you can cast it with your hero or your seraphs.
Plus, orcs can only guess which school did you take. Light can be almost as effective as dark in this matchup if no shatter skill is around 
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted November 26, 2007 01:52 PM |
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So you come to the point that the only effective strategy against orcs is taking 2 magic schools. 
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted November 26, 2007 02:37 PM |
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Or the orcs take basic shatter light/dark with corrupt for each  Yeah as if that would be easy.
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phoenixreborn
Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
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posted November 26, 2007 02:38 PM |
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Quote:
I am not sure if shatter works against neutral casters
They do work. Shatter destruction can be handy.
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Adon
Known Hero
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posted November 26, 2007 11:15 PM |
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Edited by Adon at 23:24, 26 Nov 2007.
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I guess time will tell...shatter destruction would be a no brainer v. warlocks, but for most other factions its too hard to tell what skill to take and you just can't afford to make a wrong decision (which I think would lead most all people to take shatter dark and hope for the best). Still, do people find shatter dark good enough in practice to win? On paper it just doesn't look strong enough.
I think with enough leadership, luck, defense, and attack skills a larger orc army could counter a haven army with only light skills. The best way to counter orcs seems to be dark (but this is all theory).
Divine Vengeance is probably going to be nerfed in the next patch. Right now it can just do too much damage in late game battles.
(forgot to mention Goblin Witch Doctors and Defile Magic...in late game with enough numbers this could actually be useful too)
And Elvin...you find Stronghold good at creeping in early game? The lack of magic hurts me when I try. I invariably lose a few units here and there and their tier one units before being upgraded are just too weak and sometimes when hit you have to kill them because they switch side. I don't think they are the weakest at creeping early game but they aren't that good at it. Also I think all basic skills BUT the shatter skills (apparently except shatter destruction) are useful in creeping, some more than others of course. Either directly like attack, luck, leadership, defense, magic schools and war machines; or indirectly like logicstics and enlightenment. Not talking about perks.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted November 26, 2007 11:41 PM |
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With trappers(one big stack and 2-3 single ones) laying traps and centaurs shooting with powerful blow you can kill many creeps. If the map is short I get flaming arrows and ballista, it always does good damage to shooters even without warmachines. That, memory of our blood and the other dwelling in town that gives starting rage helps vs ranged creeps. And naturally I get battle frenzy and exp rage asap. Warmachines are also an instant pick.
If you think that the above do not suffice then also consider that barbarians level up faster due to spell shrines. In heritage of Deleb I easily cleared most of my area and rushed enemy side by week 2 with lvl 14 or so.
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