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okrane
Famous Hero
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posted February 19, 2008 01:43 PM |
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Ever tried the Magnetic Golem/Firewall exploit. Works like a charm in creeping 
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Drunk_Lord
Known Hero
very happy hero :)
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posted February 19, 2008 01:56 PM |
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good idea 
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted February 19, 2008 02:02 PM |
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Sounds great  Waiting a few turns in there is fun.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Ceres
Supreme Hero
and sweetness
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posted February 20, 2008 02:29 AM |
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Quote:
...Ignite affecting them is a shame, hope it gets fixed.
No it should not be fixed!
Well if that would be fixed then another challenge!
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yasmiel
Supreme Hero
Former Chessmaster
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posted February 20, 2008 06:28 AM |
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Quote:
They are immune to all spells, even buffs. Armageddon heals them.
I was 100% sure that it worked for everything EXCEPT armageddon. Read it somewhere and didn't try it because of it. They are supposed to be healed by destructive but not armageddon. Seems to me like another thing that they forgot to implement then.
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unixmage
Known Hero
Demon Slayer
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posted February 20, 2008 08:18 AM |
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You are mistaken. The fire effect of Armageddon is magic and therefore heals them. The physical damage of the impact should damage them because it's not magical damage (I haven't observed this happening). Any armor reducing effect from master of fire will also affect them.
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Sargeras
Known Hero
the Fallen
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posted February 20, 2008 09:42 AM |
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...agree with Unixmage, armageddon heals them, but i think u read about their magnetism ability. When under an area spell of destruction magic with friendly stacks they assumes some of the damage that would go to that stacks than absorb half the damage and convert it to health; but THAT doesn't apply to armageddon spell
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Now they shall be consumed by the very flame they sought to control...
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Drunk_Lord
Known Hero
very happy hero :)
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posted February 20, 2008 08:01 PM |
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Good ol' Razzak, splitt the golems into two stacks + destructive magic(AoE spells, prefferably firewall or some other AoE spells ) to heal the golems and probabbly deal some dmg to ur enemy
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Nameless
Tavern Dweller
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posted March 25, 2008 08:34 PM |
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Yeah
Greetings, I am new here (but not to the game).
First off, allow me to vent a little and just tell you all how tired I am of Academy dominating the Heroes games time in and time out. In part 3 (which is as far back as I go) Tower has by far the most balanced army throughout, easily the best creeping, the best (also the most) spells, not to mention the most broken hero of all time.
In part 4, it is only (again) the most balanced army, great creeping, order magic (phantoms and puppet master? gimme a break!), and nobility at the start of the game...
which brings us to...
In part 5 it is a wonderfully balanced army, the articifer racial, now the magnetic golems (as though Academy didn't own prior to ToE), armageddon, totally wicked endgame even without arcane omniscience, and wait, I'm forgetting something - oh yes, and now thanks to the wonderful dude who should be working for MIB you can get arcane omniscience on a large map no problem.
Gimme a break...
Against a guy like me you don't stand a chance. Unless you somehow rush me in week 2, but I have an answer to that, too.
The problem is...
I hate playing with Academy.
It's no fun.
I hated Tower in part 3... there was just something strangely repulsive to me about them... maybe I just don't dig the creatures, and maybe, just maybe, it's just too doggone easy.
Fly gargoiles to the shooters, or with everybody else just sit back and kill everybody with your 70 master gremlins. Whom the neutrals below level 7 won't even reach, because I know how to position my units.
Gimme a break.
Wait, I was supposed to talk about part 5 wasn't I?
Sorry, just venting frustration.
Anyways, so yeah, I pretty much dig Haven, Sylvan, Dungeon, and Necropolis. Out of these four Dungeon is by far my favorite, primarily because it fits my dynamic playing style the most. I made a living through hit and run since part 3, where I'd do it with Castle. Don't ask how.
One might say that hit and run is easy. But it ain't.
With hit and run the chances are that you're digging deep into the neutral lands in week 2 with some empowered level 2 spell, 20+ furies and 6 stacks of 1 stalker. Okay, 5 stacks of 1 stalker and another stack of 20 stalkers. And... 30-40 mana.
Then say, 18 pit spawns happen to be in your way.
Now that's what I consider fun.
To answer the question of the original poster, from a logical standpoint, all around, yes, Academy rules supreme. And yes, in the endgame, if the person on the other end from you, whoever you are, knows how to play Academy for real, chances are you're screwed royally and I don't care if you have a 5k implosion or not.
But there aren't that many who can really play Academy to its fullest potential. And even from their number I'd be afraid only of those who had favored that faction since part 3. Don't ask why, it defies logic. They know that someone has designed all games since at least part 3 particularly favoring one faction, leaving just enough there for a really smart player to take enormous advantage of. They know that they're that smart player and that they will own you. They're used to it, a tradition that for them has been going for ten years probably. I'd be afraid of them, because I've been there since part 3 and seen it, and been owned, and having finally gotten frustrated, sold my soul and owned everybody with that same faction myself, and hated how easy it was.
Anybody else, I'd take them with Dungeon and see what they can do. You can't beat easy creeping, which at the same time saves you units who can just sit back and grow in your castle or whatever you have there. And you doubly can't beat Dungeon's creeping especially when you're playing with a time limit, because you can actually win several battles in one turn with no army by leaving two stacks of stalker and just casting a few spells in midturn.
But easy creeping equals no easy game, and that's the price you will have to pay when you eventually run into your opponent, probably sporting hordes and throngs levels 1 through 6. Luckily for you, this game is still all about luck (they all have been, since part 3), and a few big artifacts as opposed to your opponent's big army still wins it for you.
Unless it's Academy. Oh well.
So you got my eventual vote for Dungeon. Unless you've preferred Academy (Tower, whatever) since Heroes 3 and in that case I know you. I know what you do. And I don't like you.  
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted March 25, 2008 09:01 PM |
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Well, nice to see someone who is new to forums and isn't a complete noob. 
While I agree with you when it comes to dungeon creeping and academy potential, I kinda disagree that Academy pwns all. This one is, again, map dependant. If you play a lot of hourglass, you may find your academy pwned and eaten alive by Sylvan's first turn strike. Sylvan, if given the chance to develop its army, is the most powerful army in this game, period. No mini-artifacts or MMR abuse can stop it.
But wait, you have to get to that point first. And that is the problem. Sylvan is susceptible to rushes (both warmachine and magical ones), has pretty average creeping at best and suffers from expensive dwellings and wood shortage through earlygame. Which means you NEED the kind of hg map unless you're really skilled.. I mean, without riches here and there, and a bit of time to prepare, it's HARD as hell to develop a strong elven army.
When it comes to dungeon, it's not an easy matchup vs. academy, agreed. But then again, there are many ways you can play the game. Ever tried light oriented warlock? 40 att with some serious divine vengeance abuse? Then some cheesy ressurection when there are a few units left, maybe a phoenix? WHo says you're limitted to destruction only. In fact, you should use this to your advantage: your opponent suspects, bah, is sure that you will go for destructive. And he takes the necessary steps to counter it. But if you went for different path, his efforts are in vain.
And good creeping is also map dependant. Everybody can defeat 80 archangels in week 3-4 with dungeon, all you need is ignite, fire spell, phoenix cape and a bit of SP boosters. But on sterile maps like peninsula, taking the same 80 archangels on week 3-4 is completely impossible.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted March 25, 2008 09:20 PM |
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Edited by Elvin at 21:28, 25 Mar 2008.
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Quote:
Against a guy like me you don't stand a chance. Unless you somehow rush me in week 2, but I have an answer to that, too.
Uh huh. Allow me to express my doubts and I have had my share of ToH games. The longer the game takes their power decreases unless you manage to get some insane knowledge and resources but then a haven with full paladin training, sylvan or fortress will probably sweep the floor with your remains.
Hit and run may not be easy and there are counters in H5 but that does not make it any less cheap. Sure you are forced to use it in long games but if you try it before week 4 that's bad sport and your opponent will think twice before playing you. Because he's afraid? No because that's no fun.
If you speak only about hit&run vs neutrals then you need to learn a few more things about dungeon. You can take down lots of tier 7 week 2 without hit&run and besides you only lose time with that when you could creep non-stop.
In any case creeping is not everything and academy vs dungeon can be a hard and unpredictable match. Anyway I should mention that H5 original academy was the worst faction of all and only after some patching did it become good. Good but far from invincible. It's all a matter of timing, skill and luck and even then luck can only get you that far. Every faction has its weakness, exploit them rather than hate
Welcome by the way, looking forward to new discussions
Edit: Oops seconded.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted March 25, 2008 09:27 PM |
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And there's divine vengeance aka divine imbalance. Whoever gets it in light vs light matchup has twice the chance of winning. If haven gets it and you don't, I seriously doubt you can defeat a fully paladin-trained haven army WITH divine vengeance. Even crazy stuff like 30 SP phoenix may be not enough.
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nameless
Tavern Dweller
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posted March 25, 2008 09:43 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Against a guy like me you don't stand a chance. Unless you somehow rush me in week 2, but I have an answer to that, too.
Uh huh. Allow me to express my doubts and I have had my share of ToH games. The longer the game takes their power decreases unless you manage to get some insane knowledge and resources but then a haven with full paladin training, sylvan or fortress will probably sweep the floor with your remains.
A little more detail, please. This is veeery, and I mean very general what you just said!
Quote:
Hit and run may not be easy and there are counters in H5 but that does not make it any less cheap. Sure you are forced to use it in long games but if you try it before week 4 that's bad sport and your opponent will think twice before playing you. Because he's afraid? No because that's no fun.
Hmm, disagree. Whatever's there is there, and you should use it and accordingly learn to counter it. Hit and run can be countered before week 4, an opponent who doesn't see the fun in that particular challenge simply hasn't learned to overcome it.
Quote:
If you speak only about hit&run vs neutrals then you need to learn a few more things about dungeon. You can take down lots of tier 7 week 2 without hit&run and besides you only lose time with that when you could creep non-stop.
No no no. I didn't mean hit&run vs neutrals. Unless you're talking neautrals like the garrison on Avalon.
Quote:
In any case creeping is not everything and academy vs dungeon can be a hard and unpredictable match. Anyway I should mention that H5 original academy was the worst faction of all and only after some patching did it become good. Good but far from invincible. It's all a matter of timing, skill and luck and even then luck can only get you that far. Every faction has its weakness, exploit them rather than hate
Agreed, creeping is not everything, which is why Academy always has a good chance against Dungeon. As for in H5 original Academy being the worst... well, suffice it to say I strongly disagree with you! Maybe you just haven't played a good Academy player in original H5. While they definitely weren't the easiest faction to master (neither was Tower in H3 for that matter), underpowered I wouldn't call them. As for my hatred... that goes back to H3 and H4, and the fact that the potential is there as before, for them to rule supreme.
Quote:
Welcome by the way, looking forward to new discussions
Edit: Oops seconded.
Thanks. I think I like it here
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted March 25, 2008 09:53 PM |
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You'll find a couple of really good players here, if that's what you're looking for. 
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted March 25, 2008 09:54 PM |
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Quote:
A little more detail, please. This is veeery, and I mean very general what you just said!
Yes because I don't like to address too many things in one post From what I've seen artificer is good but can't keep up with high army strength after some time. Also sylvan, orcs, dwarves and haven have a very good lategame - from those I'd fear the orcs less because of their vulnerability to dark magic. The rest are better to attack around week 4-5 at the latest.
Quote:
Hmm, disagree. Whatever's there is there, and you should use it and accordingly learn to counter it. Hit and run can be countered before week 4, an opponent who doesn't see the fun in that particular challenge simply hasn't learned to overcome it.
We'll agree to disagree then. Personally I prefer to have a good battle rather than harass my opponent with hit&run and not all can do something about it while you can always hit&run. For instance necro that did not get curse of the netherworld or haven. If you have swift mind you'll get a cast regardless of what the opponent does.
Quote:
Agreed, creeping is not everything, which is why Academy always has a good chance against Dungeon. As for in H5 original Academy being the worst...
In 1.0 they pretty much were. I think colossi were 20k and 30k to upgrade plus the resource requirements were not fine tuned.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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nameless
Tavern Dweller
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posted March 25, 2008 10:10 PM |
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Well, nice to see someone who is new to forums and isn't a complete noob.
Yay, why thank you. Much gratitude for bestowing me with only a degree of noobness
Quote:
While I agree with you when it comes to dungeon creeping and academy potential, I kinda disagree that Academy pwns all. This one is, again, map dependant. If you play a lot of hourglass, you may find your academy pwned and eaten alive by Sylvan's first turn strike. Sylvan, if given the chance to develop its army, is the most powerful army in this game, period. No mini-artifacts or MMR abuse can stop it.
A lot of hourglass? With due respect, be my guest.
Quote:
But wait, you have to get to that point first. And that is the problem. Sylvan is susceptible to rushes (both warmachine and magical ones), has pretty average creeping at best and suffers from expensive dwellings and wood shortage through earlygame. Which means you NEED the kind of hg map unless you're really skilled.. I mean, without riches here and there, and a bit of time to prepare, it's HARD as hell to develop a strong elven army.
Agreed, although creeping with them is damn fun. Which reminds me, I handled a horde of Vindicators with 40 sprites, a pack of wind dancers, and 2 hunters a few days ago, day 8 creeping. Gotta love the no retaliation + 7 speed (I had 8 with boots, could have been 9 if I weren't stuck in damn dirt). Essentially killed them with imbued arrow+slow, then spikes (spent 30 mana, arrow+spikes would kill like 6), and using only sprites for attack. They were in two stacks of 30. Lost 3 dancers and like 10 sprites (one stack, I had them split up in like four). Wouldn't have lost the dancers if I had one sitting separate to take retaliation. Basically, the only problem creeping with Sylvan is the time limit. No way can you in early creeping afford more than one neutral per turn at 2 minutes.
Quote:
When it comes to dungeon, it's not an easy matchup vs. academy, agreed. But then again, there are many ways you can play the game. Ever tried light oriented warlock? 40 att with some serious divine vengeance abuse? Then some cheesy ressurection when there are a few units left, maybe a phoenix? WHo says you're limitted to destruction only. In fact, you should use this to your advantage: your opponent suspects, bah, is sure that you will go for destructive. And he takes the necessary steps to counter it. But if you went for different path, his efforts are in vain.
Doomforge, I like you, but why in the world would you want to build a light oriented warlock?
Quote:
And good creeping is also map dependant. Everybody can defeat 80 archangels in week 3-4 with dungeon, all you need is ignite, fire spell, phoenix cape and a bit of SP boosters. But on sterile maps like peninsula, taking the same 80 archangels on week 3-4 is completely impossible.
Agreed! We should play sometime, btw.
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nameless
Tavern Dweller
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posted March 25, 2008 10:12 PM |
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You'll find a couple of really good players here, if that's what you're looking for.
Awesome! We could schedule a few in May... I'll be taking a summer course then. We could start early if you're cool with staying up late.
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted March 25, 2008 10:17 PM |
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Actually the new guy is right . Academy kills everyone in lategame
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted March 25, 2008 10:26 PM |
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Yay, why thank you. Much gratitude for bestowing me with only a degree of noobness
Oh, sorry, I didn't meant you're a noob of any degree. Not what I meant
Quote:
Doomforge, I like you, but why in the world would you want to build a light oriented warlock?
Why not? I'm not the only one, see, samiekl is a very good dungeon player and he understands that relying on one destructive strategy vs. all is not going to work. He hinted me about the light build, tbh, I just took it from there and upgraded it a bit
Quote:
Agreed! We should play sometime, btw.
Perhaps in the future, but to be honest, LANs are my favorite, and I rarely play online. Hope that doesn't make me sound noobish, cause my mates are great players
Samiekl: Don't you think Sylvan is kinda on top? I agree that academy beats the rest, but I would say sylvan is at least equal. If given a chance to gain so much power, that is
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted March 25, 2008 10:35 PM |
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If academy is given the chance to build miniartifacts, sylvan will be dead in 1 turn. Not exactly, but you get my drift.
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This thread is pages long: 
