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| Thread: Campaigns allways got the same end |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · NEXT» |
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Carcity
Supreme Hero
Blind Sage
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posted October 30, 2007 11:56 AM |
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Campaigns allways got the same end
i think it is wierd. in every Campaign in the HOMM V history the last Campaign allways is that many heroes from different teames get together and fight. why??
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Why can't you save anybody?
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted October 30, 2007 12:08 PM |
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Because the dark side is stronger otherwise 
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Ceres
Supreme Hero
and sweetness
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posted October 30, 2007 12:48 PM |
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Really, Elvin? I hope so. 
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Carcity
Supreme Hero
Blind Sage
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posted October 30, 2007 08:08 PM |
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oh so thats why. thanks
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Why can't you save anybody?
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted October 30, 2007 08:32 PM |
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Story-wise the good guys are overwhelmed by the number of demons but it's also an excuse to play with your previous heroes.
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Map also hosted on Moddb
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grow
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 30, 2007 08:37 PM |
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well depends on how you look at it
its easier to do "bad" than it is to do "good", which is why many of the weak are bad(dark). The hordes of darkness may outnumber, but for the warriors of the good/light, it's simply just more "bodies" to slay. Afterall dark is weak in the first place which put them where they are. light is always stronger because they share the same #1 hate(simply dark forces), while dark forces often have self-specific objectives. this leads to light being paralled together when the time of survival calls for it, which leads them to these "end-campaign" victories
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nothing is predictable
grow me
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Cepheus
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
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posted October 30, 2007 08:46 PM |
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It's been like this since Heroes III and it'll be like this until a better, realistic idea comes along, so get used to it.
However we had good reasons in earlier games.
Heroes III: RoE - Erathia, AvLee and Bracada were already in alliance anyway. Deyja joined them to take down their own king, who had gotten too power-crazy for their own good. Makes sense.
Heroes III: SoD - The good old "common threat" scenario, marked by the fact that the heroes were from only two different nations rather than what, six?
Heroes IV: GS - The five heroes were close allies in the first place and the threat was clear to see.
Whereas in Heroes V, we have a mishmash of five or six heroes from all alignments just chatting to one another, forging inexplicable alliances with none of the suspicion or second thought other leaders would possess. For example, Findan and Raelag happily cooperate even though their homelands clearly share a mutual discomfort at best. And Wulfstan is perfectly aware that the Dark Elves have slaughtered hundreds of his people, though he has no qualms about practically coming on to her at the end of HoF.
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Carcity
Supreme Hero
Blind Sage
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posted October 30, 2007 10:11 PM |
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Edited by Carcity at 22:16, 30 Oct 2007.
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Quote:
For example, Findan and Raelag happily cooperate even though their homelands clearly share a mutual discomfort at best.
That is'nt really true. Findan first wanted to kill Raelag but he did not for the good of them all. and Raelag just wanted peace and to destroye Demons.
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Why can't you save anybody?
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roy-algriffin
Supreme Hero
Chocolate ice cream zealot
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posted October 30, 2007 10:19 PM |
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Quote:
And Wulfstan is perfectly aware that the Dark Elves have slaughtered hundreds of his people, though he has no qualms about practically coming on to her at the end of HoF.
Remember it turns out later that hangvul is the one who orchastrated both wars for extra power anyway. And wulfstan doesnt neccasarily agree with him.
Besides that in their situation i would doubt it id say no to any ally that freed me from a huge haven army encircling my town ready to smash the living breath out of it..But maybe thats just me?
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"Am i a demon? No im a priest of the light! THE BLOODY RED LIGHT"
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Cepheus
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
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posted October 31, 2007 12:32 AM |
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Quote:
That is'nt really true. Findan first wanted to kill Raelag but he did not for the good of them all. and Raelag just wanted peace and to destroye Demons.
What's untrue about it, Irollan and Ygg-Chall are indeed unfriendly towards each other. Findan and Raelag do happily cooperate (albeit mainly in the final mission).
Quote:
Remember it turns out later that hangvul is the one who orchastrated both wars for extra power anyway. And wulfstan doesnt neccasarily agree with him.
Still, he could have had some measure of suspicion. Whether one likes it or not, he is still a Dwarf, and the Dark Elves have killed many of his people. Fair enough if Hangvul started it all but it isn't like he's the one who killed anybody himself.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted October 31, 2007 12:42 AM |
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I dunno I still believe it makes sense as it was shown in H5. racial differences and guilt aside when you are in war with a greater enemy and a former enemy saves your hide and offers his help you will accept. As for the happy cooperation between Findan and Raelag I did not see it, the former was moody and the latter did not really care.
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Daystar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Back from the Dead
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posted October 31, 2007 01:07 AM |
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Quote:
And Wulfstan is perfectly aware that the Dark Elves have slaughtered hundreds of his people, though he has no qualms about practically coming on to her at the end of HoF.
Yes, but this is Wulfstan we're talking about.
Although I agree, the endings are rather simmilar. Although the Irollan Elves were not involved at all. I wonder if Findan finds out and he's like,
"Why did they not include me?
My people will fight the foe,
and free the land.
And Then I can go back to writing poetry" or something.
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How exactly is luck a skill?
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Duncan
Famous Hero
The Pathfinder
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posted October 31, 2007 11:21 AM |
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Yeah, I miss Findan (his character, not his voice) and Sylvan's participation in this last expansion. Then again I wonder if they're in the game then at level 20 something get the ultimate, what would happen...
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But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it.
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Cepheus
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
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posted October 31, 2007 12:11 PM |
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Quote:
As for the happy cooperation between Findan and Raelag I did not see it, the former was moody and the latter did not really care.
The fact that they cooperated without major argument or killing each other was enough.
Quote:
Yes, but this is Wulfstan we're talking about.
But then again this is war we're talking about. In wars, people don't just drop everything and form alliances on a whim their leaders may or may not have. Take the Fortress campaign in Armageddon's Blade and look at what happens when you mix Castle troops with Fortress ones:
Quote:
"Baltron rushes into your tent, waking you from a near dead sleep. "Adrienne! There is trouble with the men! Come quick!" Throwing on clothes you stumble sleepy eyed out into camp and straight into a free for all. Tatalians and Erathians are brawling, a huge fistfight has engulfed the camp! "Stop this now!" Your strong voice carries, but none listen. Vainly you shout again and know it will only give you a sore throat. From deep within you call the anger needed to release the power of Fire.
Unleashing flames high into the night sky men quickly scramble for cover. Letting your temper cool, each man warily keeps their distance as you stalk through the camp, looking for the instigators. It is easy to find them. Two hotheaded Cavaliers were disciplined twice already for inciting the Mighty Gorgons within the ranks - by trying to ride them. Now one of the troublemakers lies dead, having discovered why most don't lock eyes with a Mighty Gorgon. Staring coldly at the remaining Cavalier you wordlessly snag the fool in one hand.
Between gritted teeth you manage to speak these words, "There - will - be - no - more - FIGHTING!" The camp jumps as you punctuate the last word with a small burst of fire from your free hand. The Cavalier will need to change his shorts. Dropping him you stalk back towards your tent. Baltron takes over, scolding them further and arranging for healing of the wounded and burial of the dead."
If they were looking for a drop of realism they'd have shown some similar discontent among the troops. No army of four entirely different civilizations would be able to cooperate so seamlessly without any difficulties or arguments throughout just because their leaders are buddies.
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Daystar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Back from the Dead
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posted October 31, 2007 12:16 PM |
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Wow. I think I'll go back through and replay those games!
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How exactly is luck a skill?
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Duncan
Famous Hero
The Pathfinder
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posted October 31, 2007 12:38 PM |
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Oo.. I always love it when the Keeper enlightens
Well it can be that the H5 storymaker has less imagination than those of the previous series, or it could also due to the handicap of cinematics. It's much more freedom in writing I say.
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But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it.
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Cepheus
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
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posted October 31, 2007 12:47 PM |
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No doubt about it.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted October 31, 2007 12:49 PM |
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You can be sure about the less imagination part but in this case each army is lead by its native ruler. And as I said considering the demon forces and the losses they had there was not much of an option. I remember Adrienne's scenario and the threat did not hand over their heads so ominously, now they know it's survival or nothing.
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Nirual
Famous Hero
Imbued Ballista
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posted October 31, 2007 12:54 PM |
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My only beef with those mixed campaigns is that Academy got the least "real" missions, although the TotE one arguably solved it a lot better.
And yes, it's a pretty common finale. In Wc3, the last mission also brings all the good races together to defend the world tree against the common enemy (surprise surprise, demons).
The only difference is that only one of the races is directly controlled by the player.
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In ur base killing ur doods... and raising them as undeads.
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Cepheus
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
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posted October 31, 2007 12:58 PM |
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Okay then, here's a more intense example. Catherine and Roland are trying to prevent a lunatic demon king from creating a sword capable of destroying the world, and guess what? Their own country turns their back on them.
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"Support has greatly waned amongst the Erathian nobility, for this war in the past few months. It has been costly in both gold and lives, precious commodities all to be certain. However, this endeavor is of utmost import if what the soothsayer said is true. Should they really have Armageddon's Blade, King Lucifer must not be allowed to continue in his mad quest. The line must be drawn here and now.
Seeing as how the Erathian people see this war as being over, they have refused to fund your war any longer. Disheartened, as you were, you decreed General Morgan Kendal would act as Regent in your stead, his primary task to find a new leader for the kingdom your father made so great. You chose to abdicate the Erathian throne and ally yourself with the Elemental Confluxes in an effort to destroy this mad king and his demonic hordes once and for all.
Teary eyed, yet stoic, you transferred control of the kingdom of your birth to General Kendal and rode off towards your destiny. When all was said and done, you and Roland were going to return to Enroth and your son Nicolai at last. Erathia was free to rule itself, without interference from Enroth. Its destiny was now it's own. You had a war to win, a world to save, and could not be burdened by grief over the terrible choices you were forced to make."
And another example. Tarnum is trying to prevent that very sword from doing what it was made to do, and yet his army is still more concerned with fighting each other and trying to usurp his rule than allowing him to prevent the planet from blowing up.
Quote:
"Kilkik floated into my tent this morning with a menacing look on his face. I knew the Beholder wouldn't be foolish enough to attack me one-on-one, but there was something in his dark eye that told me Kilkik no longer felt any loyalty toward me.
So, I stood and called, "I want to introduce you to someone, Kilkik. Trongar!"
A secret slit in the back of my tent parted and a massive, black Minotaur King stepped inside. He had to bow his great head to avoid tearing the ceiling of my tent.
"Kilkik, meet Trongar, my new bodyguard. I hired him last night," I said.
Kilkik studied the Minotaur for a long time, realizing now that I was twice as powerful as before.
"So, why have you come here, Kilkik?" I asked.
"To report some bad news," Kilkik said. "The Troglodytes you sent to capture Ufretin were killed before they even reached his Rampart. An Elven ambush! Unfortunately, our loyal companion, Neez, was slaughtered as well!"
"Oh, I'm sorry to hear that! I really am," I said. "You may go now. Leave me to my grief."
Once I was alone with Trongar, I tossed him a heavy bag of Gold.
"That one's dangerous," Trongar said.
"Yes, I know, but he just lost his strongest ally. It will take him a while to regain his power," I said.
Just before Trongar left the tent, I said, "Good work, by the way. I assume the Medusas used Elven arrows to make it look like our enemy did it."
"Yes. They were all too willing to get back on your good graces - and to get at least partial revenge for the deaths of their sisters," Trongar said.
I smiled, but inside my guts were twisting with shame. This kind of treachery was all too easy for me."
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