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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: MIGHT OR MAGIC HEROES
Thread: MIGHT OR MAGIC HEROES [ This thread is 7 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 (6) 7 ]
Bones_xa
Bones_xa


Known Hero
posted February 13, 2012 02:28 AM

Quote:

1)make both heroes have 0atk 0def and offense/defense skills disabled.
 

anyone disagree here?



I agree. If there are artifacts to cripple magic heroes there should be something to hurt might heroes just as much.


So yeah obviously might heroes as main are the better strategy.
Against the computer though you can do magic heroes. I think I've completed a few with magic heroes as main on Impossible setting. But in multiplayer, I don't think that would be a good idea...

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Peterlerock
Peterlerock


Adventuring Hero
posted February 20, 2012 04:39 PM

The main problem of Magic Heroes lies imho in the artifacts...

Take iE Items with +10 stats in total:

A might hero with 10/10/2/2 stats will have 20/20/12/12 with his stuff equipped. He then is a decent fighter and a decent mage, his spells last 12 rounds (more then enough) and his manapool is also ok, even if u use Dimensiondoor and TP frequently (against AI).

A magic hero with 2/2/10/10 stats will have 12/12/20/20. His spells are a bit more powerful damagewise but thats it. The duration doesnt matter, the manapool not really.
So all he got for having a deficit of 8 on each of his fighting stats is a little more damage on his spells (1 per round, sometimes no damage at all).
Thats nothing compared to the disadvantage of his weaker troops.

---

The reason u can play magic heroes against AI are for the most part:

a) the AI is stupid
b) ur army is almost always stronger than the AIs
c) u will always have better artifacts and hero level/skills, even the low fighting stats of mage heroes will often be higher than the stats of their might heroes

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Bones_xa
Bones_xa


Known Hero
posted February 21, 2012 04:48 PM

Another thing that can really screw magic heroes is the resistance skill. If your hero relies heavily on magic, and there is a chance where your hard hitting spell fails completely, that can break the battle for you, and you have no backup. Even if you cast mass spells on the enemy like mass slow, some of the units don't get effected. And even if you cast mass spells on your troops, like for example mass haste, you need to have your attack skills up for your troops to get the better effect of it.
Resistance can be very annoying for magic heroes. I remember I was doing one of the campaigns with a main magic hero and fighting against the undead, Straker was giving me problems because of his resistance.

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Peterlerock
Peterlerock


Adventuring Hero
posted February 22, 2012 01:04 PM

While Resistance can be annoying, in Human vs Human it's usually not an issue, as most players will not take the resistance skill on their main hero (unless they are having fun or didnt play right and end up getting offered resistance and eagle eye or something like that).

In Human vs AI it's another thing.

You can pick Resistance if you want, doesnt really matter and as the AI loves magic heroes, why not? ;-)

You can pick Magic Heroes, often they are even better then might heroes because u can spam Fly, TP and Dimension Door to clean the map faster and be everywhere and nowhere with your Main...
But as you should never pick a fight that u win if and only if the enemy has no luck on his resistance, you are doing somthing wrong...
Getting beaten by straker? Come on... ;-)

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Yaaroslav
Yaaroslav

Tavern Dweller
posted March 02, 2012 03:49 PM

Quote:
Whitch do you preffer might heroes or magic heroes. I preffer might. Like hack, gunlda, tazar ones like that.

Edit: revived!@

I like might. Magic is too expensive and usually unavaileble.

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NoobX Online
NoobX


Legendary Hero
Naughty Noob
posted March 04, 2012 05:20 PM

It's good to have might heroes because they'll have the good troops in the start, but... Some heroes like Christian don't start with good army and they'll need a week to get in balance (The ballista didn't work for me).
Magic heroes are not bad too (Solmyr with Chain Lightning and Aislinn with Meteor Shower), but their fighting skills don't develop very good and a hero with an Orb of Inhibition will take care of them easily (Though it's hard to get).

Still, I think that might is better (Take a look at SoD campaign "Birth of a Barbarian").

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Bones_xa
Bones_xa


Known Hero
posted March 06, 2012 04:23 PM

Quote:

But as you should never pick a fight that u win if and only if the enemy has no luck on his resistance, you are doing somthing wrong...
Getting beaten by straker? Come on... ;-)


Well it was a slight of exaggeration on my part but the point I was trying to make was that if you are fighting a battle thats relatively even matched and your hero relies heavy on magic, resistance can make or break the battle for you.
I don't remember exactly but I think I was using Gem in the shadow of death campaign, casting something like Implosion with high spell power can really take down the numbers of a stack, but if its resisted that alone can screw you.
Also, shadow of death campaign on Impossible setting isn't exactly a walk in the park unless maybe you know the maps and just what to do.

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MacMasterMC
MacMasterMC


Known Hero
Resurrected Loreweaver
posted March 22, 2012 05:53 AM

Quote:
Quote:

1)make both heroes have 0atk 0def and offense/defense skills disabled.
 

anyone disagree here?



I agree. If there are artifacts to cripple magic heroes there should be something to hurt might heroes just as much.


So yeah obviously might heroes as main are the better strategy.
Against the computer though you can do magic heroes. I think I've completed a few with magic heroes as main on Impossible setting. But in multiplayer, I don't think that would be a good idea...


Pandora's box, or an event. Is there a way to save a custom artifact like the box modified? Or is there no way to attach those effects or anything similar to any artifacts out there? Or perhaps just a boost to attack and def ??
____________
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an expectant feel to the air...
...a figure takes shape...

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gammacra
gammacra


Hired Hero
posted May 13, 2012 10:33 PM

Spells require spell points, which are free, and easy to obtain.

Army requires money, which isn't free, and easy to lose.

HOWEVER

Magic heroes have 1 less primary stat, AND...

Worse of all they have AWFUL SECONDARY SKILL ADVANCEMENT.

This isn't to say they can't kick butt though, solmyr can actually do huge amounts of damage if he gets enough spell power, early game magic heroes can be great.

but I'd have to say Might, sadly.

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Fool
Fool


Hired Hero
posted May 20, 2012 01:36 PM

Magic is more useful for the early game, might for the late game. The problem is that their respective availabilities are the opposite (you are only likely to get good spells very late, while a week's worth of troops becomes less and less powerful in comparison to massive armies in the late game).

I think the thing to consider is that might grows linearly (you will always get a certain number of troops each week), while magic grows at a much slower pace (dependent on spell power, which is mostly obtained through level ups, which become increasingly infrequent). The disparity grows as time goes on. Direct damage spells are nice, but just cannot keep up with the damage dealt by large stacks. Personally, I tend to prefer a might hero with enough knowledge to spam low-level spells (which are the most useful, really) like Haste and Shield.

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Peterlerock
Peterlerock


Adventuring Hero
posted May 24, 2012 06:10 AM

Quote:
Spells require spell points, which are free, and easy to obtain.


Refilling spell points costs time (unless you find those wells everywhere), especially in the beginning when your hero doesn't have high knowledge.

And time equals money, so it's not for free...


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Blake00
Blake00

Tavern Dweller
posted May 28, 2012 05:01 AM

I've always gone the might route with a little bit of magic to support if possible.

Generally I'll build my primary and secondary heroes up to support strong range ability so that I'm strong during castle seiges.
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Rahkshi
Rahkshi


Hired Hero
posted June 05, 2012 05:51 PM

In my opinion, magic heroes always beat might. Because they can have important spells quicker than might heroes, like Fly, Dimension door and Armageddon. Not even these spells, somethings like expert slow, haste, bless and more ... can determine the winner too. Might can only beat magic when they have Red orb, no comment about this. So that magic is always stronger .  

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Casper
Casper

Tavern Dweller
posted June 05, 2012 06:17 PM

Quote:
In my opinion, magic heroes always beat might. Because they can have important spells quicker than might heroes, like Fly, Dimension door and Armageddon. Not even these spells, somethings like expert slow, haste, bless and more ... can determine the winner too. Might can only beat magic when they have Red orb, no comment about this. So that magic is always stronger .  


Why can magic heroes have fly, DD, and armageddon prior to might heroes? Every class gets chances to learn wisdom early and often, so when you get those spells has more to do with how quickly you get up a mage guild and whether you are lucky enough that they appear in your high-level guild. Fly and DD are then no more useful to a magic hero than a might.

Assuming the magic hero gets to higher spell power, armageddon is more useful to him, but haste and bless are both probably more powerful in the hands of a might hero than a magic hero

I disagree with your conclusion, but I also disagree with the logic laid out here. Most might heroes seem to be have expert slow or expert haste by the time of the end fight. Granted, if they don't that's a significant strategic problem.

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Rahkshi
Rahkshi


Hired Hero
posted June 07, 2012 11:29 AM

Agree. Might can have spells too, but normally magic is quicker. Many battles I see between Conflux and Stronghold, a castle of might and a castle of magic, 80% of them Conflux win. Conflux does everything faster, open map very quick so it has more chance to have Dimension Door quicker. I don't mind the magic heroes on Stronghold or Fortress, they are really weaker than might. All I want to say is magic has more advantages than might, I don't say magic is champion. No one in HOMM3 is champion, that's why I like this game.

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angelito
angelito

Hero of Order
proud father of a princess
posted June 07, 2012 03:15 PM

You really should stop playing against AI...try playing online vs human opponents, then you will see how weak and SLOW magic heroes are...
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Star_King
Star_King


Known Hero
posted June 07, 2012 06:54 PM
Edited by Star_King at 18:56, 07 Jun 2012.

Quote:
Agree. Might can have spells too, but normally magic is quicker. Many battles I see between Conflux and Stronghold, a castle of might and a castle of magic, 80% of them Conflux win. Conflux does everything faster, open map very quick so it has more chance to have Dimension Door quicker. I don't mind the magic heroes on Stronghold or Fortress, they are really weaker than might. All I want to say is magic has more advantages than might, I don't say magic is champion. No one in HOMM3 is champion, that's why I like this game.


That's because Conflux is overpowered and has great creatures, in addition to magic. It's not as simple as just comparing them as "a castle of might and a castle of magic". Oh, and Dimension Door is usually banned.

But although might is better against other human opponents, magic becomes a lot better against the AI. Magic is boosted against AI because there's a lot of tactics you can abuse that don't work against human opponents, i.e. Force Field shenanigans (AI won't dispel Force Fields).

Magic is also extremely good in Campaigns because you carry over your skills and spells, but not your army, so with good magic your hero will be really overpowered at the beginning of each map.

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OhforfSake
OhforfSake


Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
posted June 07, 2012 07:21 PM

Yes, I too, found the ability to have high level spells and good power/knowledge to be good for campaigns. 50/50 att/def is not much good, if all you've is 3 dragon flies and you've to take down a few hydras.

Though I don't think the campaign were intended to be played in such a way. I remember lots of maps, which I'm certain would have been very challenging for me, to be very very easy, simply because my hero had a huge magic advantage from the very start of the map.

Though I guess, if one wants a good high score, magic is not necessarily the most effective way, but I'm certain it's a method everyone can apply successfully.

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Rahkshi
Rahkshi


Hired Hero
posted June 09, 2012 04:12 AM

Haven't played vs AI for a long time . What I said is in the past, when I saw my brother played with other men. They didn't ban anything so that magic always have more advantages.

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SAG
SAG


Promising
Supreme Hero
WCL owner
posted June 09, 2012 06:33 AM

Quote:
They didn't ban anything so that magic always have more advantages.


1) such setup normally kills players' skill difference and result of the game will be too much random. This is boring and frustrating.
2) such setup probably will exclude magic system at all - all fights will start on day 3-4 and game will be finished by end of week 1. If map settings are XL and 200% difficulty then probably game will be finished on week 2 but anyway unlikely any player will have magic > level 2.
If starting heroes are random - then game will be won by player who will dig in tavern hero with Diplomacy or will get it at level up
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