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Thread: Stronghold VS Dark Magic | |
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted November 13, 2007 07:03 AM |
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Edited by Mytical at 07:15, 13 Nov 2007.
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Stronghold VS Dark Magic
Ok it has been said that one of Strongholds biggests weaknesses is Dark Magic. Especially Frenzy and Puppet Master. I want some opinons on the counters I have devised and how effective they might be.
First of course is the Expert Shatter Dark, with all three initial perks. Now if I am not mistaken, that means that spellpower is considered 1/2 for the spell, and also that it takes 25% longer for the enemy hero to cast the next spell. What is the third perk of that? Can't remember.
Of course there is Might over magic, which will reduce their spellpower to equal your own. (Then of course they 1/2 that do to the shatter dark bit, and it is only considered cast at what skill (again don't remember exactly).
Now we know for ultimate the following would hurt, but I would also go Ballista>Tripple Balista and Tent (which can heal frenzy and PM if I am not mistaken).
Then your choice for goblins would be the Goblin Shaman who will defile magic on the hero not the creatures. Depending this can backfire, but it has a chance of reducing spellpower 1/2 extra or preventing it altogether (and since they try to cast takes them 25% extra to cast again).
Now if Distract is cummulative, that means that Expert Shout and Distract would be helpful also. Pretty much meaning that even with masteries they cast as if they did not have masteries. Any other spells (like frenzy and pm) would take them even longer to cast after. Even having sorcery themselves would not help that much.
Next is Luck > Magic Resistance >Barbarians Luck. Chance to ignore it alltogether. Even IF it overcomes that it still should not last very long.
Now that ties up a lot of skills but would it be an effective counter to Dark Magic? Not only talking in campains, but all aspects.
This probably should be in the questions area . I feel it may get interesting as we delve into Stronghold, however. I don't think they can beat every other town, but I do think they can level the playingfield with most other towns. They can develop a counter for most towns, of course that doesn't mean automatic victory.
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Message received.
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Nirual
Famous Hero
Imbued Ballista
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posted November 13, 2007 07:40 AM |
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Edited by Nirual at 07:42, 13 Nov 2007.
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Tent only heals Level 1-3 Dark Magic, so neither Frenzy nor PM.
Frenzy can't be cleansed either, so counters are limited for other factions aswell.
However, much of Stronghold's weakness comes from the lack of Cleansing spells or related abilities (Lay Hands). Their only real counter is being proactive with Goblin Witchdoctors, which can easily backfire against a decent enemy hero (I wonder if the ability allows for dublicated Frenzy or PM...).
Shatter Dark is pretty essential if there is any chance of the enemy going dark (vs Necropolis, Inferno especially, or also Academy and Haven), although it won't fully prevent your army from suffering Mass curses. However, the reduced duration and effect can help, especially if the enemy spellpower isn't too high, and both Frenzy and PM suffer significantly from being dropped below Master level; Frenzy only lasts one turn instead of 2, PM can't be cast on tier 7.
Might over Magic is a decent general magic counter, but usually of limited use against dark magic users since spellpower mainly influences durations (and wether Mass Slow lasts 20 turns or 17 doesn't really matter) unless you're facing someone trying to pull it of with low spellpower (Haven especially) or got your hands on some spellpower artifacts.
Distract would help, but Shout is hard to come by.
Luck of the Barbarian is pretty useless against Dark Magic.
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In ur base killing ur doods... and raising them as undeads.
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted November 13, 2007 08:00 AM |
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True. However, might with magic combined with the others would change things altogether. I think the third perk alone makes spells last only 3/4 as long.
So lets say might over magic makes it a base 18 (instead of 20), and corrupt makes that a 9. The last perk would make that a 7 (which true wouldn't matter in the long run). However, their turn would come only 25% faster instead of 50% faster at least . And goblin shammies are only really great in really really large numbers. I don't know if soldiers luck really helps with it or not . As for the Basic Shout (et all) yeah they are really hard to get. At least your shammies can counter slow on one of your creatures a couple times. Though other things like mass confusion/curse/ect they just sit there looking silly.
One of the things I really like is battle elation and Rally Cry combo. Even without any morale boosting arties or visiting any morale boosting items you can have a +7 morale with expert leadership+rally cry. So the first turn for necros at least would probably have to be banshee just to settle them down a bit (buys some time at least lol).
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Message received.
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Homer171
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted November 13, 2007 08:01 AM |
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Edited by Homer171 at 08:02, 13 Nov 2007.
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Yes Stronghold isn't "completely" helpless against dark. It's easy to have spell power boosting artifacts what helps you keep up whit enemy heroes but Necropolis will still be difficult because of their very high spell power. PM will be weakened crucially (if not resisted) but still have few turns (no Cyclops). Inferno heroes in another hand are in quite bad shape whit their low spell power. Frenzy doesn't need any spell power when the power will multiply the damage and the spell duration comes from the spell mastery. So i would say PM can be countered but Frenzy can only be resisted if any.
EDIT: I was too late
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Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed. The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force.
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Cleave
Promising
Famous Hero
Raging Blood
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posted November 13, 2007 01:35 PM |
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The best way to go about this is to use as many witch doctors as possible (at least 650 for a level 20 dark magic user). The more goblins you have the more effectively you will block the enemy's spellcasting.
Expert shatter dark will protect cyclops from PM but not from frenzy so the first thing to do is to send the cyclops in the middle of enemy troops.
There is no way to effectively protect the executioners though. Given the power of this creature it can really hurt if they become subject to PM or frenzy.
Another solution is getting artefacts and cross your fingers.
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Legendary_hero
Known Hero
Stronghold Warchief
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posted November 13, 2007 02:07 PM |
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(I wonder if the ability allows for dublicated Frenzy or PM...).
Yes i played once on duels for testing and the Frenzy was duplicated but for PM i don't now(probably not becauce the spell allows you to cast PM on only one enemy)
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Don't look back because you will...die?
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted November 13, 2007 02:55 PM |
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Puppet Masted canīt be on 2 targets, not even when when defile magic fails. The animation however shows 2 PM:s being casted, the other on to the Witch-doctors, but it ceases to exist immediately after casting. The PM that remains is on the original creature.
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Legendary_hero
Known Hero
Stronghold Warchief
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posted November 13, 2007 05:04 PM |
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Thanks for the info but i knew it couldn't be cast on the goblins, the puppet master says 1 target at a timeso it's obvious...(by the way i didn't know about the animation )
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Don't look back because you will...die?
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elmek
Adventuring Hero
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posted November 13, 2007 05:28 PM |
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Quote: Thanks for the info but i knew it couldn't be cast on the goblins, the puppet master says 1 target at a timeso it's obvious...(by the way i didn't know about the animation )
Too bad it does not backfire PM on goblins, cancelling the original target
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