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Plague
Known Hero
Only Hell know my pain
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posted May 22, 2008 09:45 PM |
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First a knight(i prefer tyris of edric),i love human army,the best(my opinion)
Tactics
Water magic
Wisdom(let hope i get prayer spell)
Ofence
Defence
Logistic
Resitance
Leadership(it is very important for humans)
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The biggest evil that you can do is to do nothing.
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sandronecro
Known Hero
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posted May 22, 2008 10:04 PM |
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Earth Magic
Offence
Water Magic
Wind Magic
Logistics
Ballistics
Pathfinding
Wisdom
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liophy
Famous Hero
Bulgarian
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posted May 22, 2008 10:52 PM |
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Quote:
Wind Magic
huh?
You prefer wind magic over cloud magic,lava magic, dust magic and ice magic?
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ong_y_j
Tavern Dweller
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posted May 24, 2008 07:31 PM |
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Infinite mana may be useful...
If you are a mage, have int AND get at least 1 summon elemental, does that put you back into even ground with the might heroes?
For the hypothetical magic hero as suggested above, You'll NEED
1. Wisdom
2. Int
3. Expert XXX [Probably Earth and/or Air]
And Try to snatch some of the mighty skills of might heroes
1. Armour
2. Offence [I rank armour better than Offence, not because of the complicated mathematics but because armour works against all 'physical' attacks whereas offence only works when you deal melee damage]
3. Logistics
4. Tactics
5... [Only possible if you don't take 2 schools of magic]
I realised that there's no need to go into depth. The listed skills are those arguably the most common seen in the main hero (at least it won't be 2 far off). The question is whether
1. Mage heroes can get the "goody" skills of the might heroes as easily as the might heroes getting mage heroes "goody" skills?
2. Is summoning elemental a sufficient compensation for the occupation of 1 slot? Because I THINK if a hero is going 2 "waste" a slot on Wisdom, he/she might as well invest sufficiently in magic to make it "worthy".
So, even though it'll probably invite heavy criticisms, why not try a mage hero that has speciality in INT, equipped with the skills of
1. INT(obviously)
2. Wis
3. Expert Magic (X1 or X2)
And the always good might skills (Off, Arm, Log, and anything else useful)
Won't it offer sufficient "fight" against the mightiest 'might' heroes? I think other than casting beneficial spells on your own troops, with the threat that Mages with INT and Summon Elementals can kind of convert their Mana points into Troops advantage, magic heroes MIGHT still prove to be a challenge to the MIGHT heroes =)
But if this ideal magic hero still lose to might heroes, then the conclusion is clear: magic heroes are inferior to might heroes. If that's the case I'll like to learn why.
Thanks in advance for all the pointers so far, as well as the ones I'm going to learn after this post ^Ô^
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted May 24, 2008 08:16 PM |
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Your "dream mage" won't work, sorry to say..
Not only will this mage guy do hard in getting only half of the decent might skills offered u mentioned, but he also will mostly level up in SP and KN instead of AT and DE.
While you may sometimes get logistics offered with mages, you will hardly get things like armorer or tactics.
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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sub_zero
Adventuring Hero
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posted May 25, 2008 02:19 AM |
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i've actually had quite good experience with heretics. ayden and zydar are the two choises you can pick here. still, they won't do as good as a might hero
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hobowu
Known Hero
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posted May 25, 2008 08:21 AM |
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@ ony
to get those skills, i think you'd be looking at an alchemist and not a magic hero...
i pick up those skills regularly with neela or torosar (all except the log, which i rarely get :S)
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del_diablo
Legendary Hero
Manifest
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posted May 25, 2008 12:03 PM |
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Any magic hero can obtain those skills. I was offered "Diplomancy" with a Death Knight once, what are the chances? You will even be offered Fire Magic once in a while with a Death Knight too.
The chances will depend on the class, and i don't get why having a insane Spellpower and Knowledge is not good either.
Knowledge = mana, if you got a high enogh of this one you might got enogh to NOT get the Int skill. Meaning 1 free slot for a skill along with litteraly infinetiv mana.
As for spellpower, why the heck is Implosion ingame? Same goes for summoning Elementals.
Implosion is 75xPower, meaning 10 in power are 750+100xmastery level. Once you have snowd up good artifacts you got NO idea how imba this can be. With 40 spellpower and master earth you do: 750x40= 30.000 + 300.
Soo a total of 30.300 damage is dealt out. This could seriusly hurt your opponents troops. And we got this Artifact granting 50% more earth damage too.
Once the "might hero" sees this, he will do the only viable counter: "Protection from Earth" but that also means resurrection would be less usefull. However if the "Might" hero does not got expert earth magic he will suffer to be liminted to just doing it on 1 troop meaning he will be likely to cast antimagic instead.
And the summoning for "Summon Elementals" Spell is 4x power. 50power = 200 troops. And the mage got higher innate spellpower and mana.
A hypotectical might hero will actually not have magic skills. Just keep that in mind, its the same as the hypotetical magic her actually do not have might skills.
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Gurnisson
Known Hero
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posted May 25, 2008 01:41 PM |
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Quote:
Implosion is 75xPower, meaning 10 in power are 750+100xmastery level. Once you have snowd up good artifacts you got NO idea how imba this can be. With 40 spellpower and master earth you do: 750x40= 30.000 + 300.
Soo a total of 30.300 damage is dealt out. This could seriusly hurt your opponents troops. And we got this Artifact granting 50% more earth damage too.
You're way off, didn't you see it yourself? 30,300 damage with Implosion ain't gonna happen.
Correct calculation with 40 spellpower and expert earth magic is:
(75*40)+300= 3000+300=3300.
And that is NOT enough to win over a might hero.
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del_diablo
Legendary Hero
Manifest
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posted May 25, 2008 01:50 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Implosion is 75xPower, meaning 10 in power are 750+100xmastery level. Once you have snowd up good artifacts you got NO idea how imba this can be. With 40 spellpower and master earth you do: 750x40= 30.000 + 300.
Soo a total of 30.300 damage is dealt out. This could seriusly hurt your opponents troops. And we got this Artifact granting 50% more earth damage too.
You're way off, didn't you see it yourself? 30,300 damage with Implosion ain't gonna happen.
Correct calculation with 40 spellpower and expert earth magic is:
(75*40)+300= 3000+300=3300.
And that is NOT enough to win over a might hero.
Never forget: Hypotecical.
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Gurnisson
Known Hero
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posted May 25, 2008 01:57 PM |
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They have always a chance but I din't bother to write that... I think you got my point regardless of me saying that 
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted May 25, 2008 04:27 PM |
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As I wrote earlier...u cast ONE implosion...and reduce or even kill ONE stack. Opponent casts mass slow and mass haste afterwards and then hits your troops up to 12 times. Let's calculate who dealed more damage...
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted May 25, 2008 04:33 PM |
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Quote:
A hypotectical might hero will actually not have magic skills. Just keep that in mind, its the same as the hypotetical magic her actually do not have might skills.
This is where you are wrong because u may miss some important informations about skill tree, chances and "must appear skills".
Only 1 or 2 examples:
EVERY might hero will get a magic school offered at level 4 latest!
EVERY might hero will get offered "wisdom" at level 6 latest!
Even if you refuse those skills at that time, the hero will get offered a magic school again after 6 levels latest, same counts for wisdom.
But a magic hero could prolly wait the ENTIRE game just to get skills like logistics, offense, armorer or tactics offered only ONCE!
Conclusion:
Developping a might hero with decent magic skills: 100%
Developping a magic hero with decent might skills: 10%
And your example with 50 spellpower is a bit funnny. Even on a XL map, a might hero will find you before your spellpower reaches 20..
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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dimis
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Digitally signed by FoG
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posted May 25, 2008 04:43 PM |
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skills ...
@del_diablo: Read my post here and you'll figure out what they are talking about.
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The empty set
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del_diablo
Legendary Hero
Manifest
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posted May 25, 2008 06:59 PM |
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Quote:
And your example with 50 spellpower is a bit funnny. Even on a XL map, a might hero will find you before your spellpower reaches 20..
eh........ you...... know........ you are so overdoing the strenght of a might hero. Remember both start on equal groud, and both can progress at a equal level.
The moment before they start whoring up artifacts to hell, it at the exact same time.
Lets say we go into a early battle, might hero got 5 att and 5 def, and the magic got 5 SP and 5 KN. If the mage got like Expert Fire or any other mass spells......... the knigth are doomed no matter what, because the buffs will last 5 rounds to all tropps of one side.
Moving on.......... I HATE people assuming the "Migth" hero is 10x more supperoir and will get skills 10x faster along with 10 artifacts for each 1 artifacts the mage gets.........
Deny it all you want, but the stuff i allready have quoted keeps the assumation intact..... STOP THIS RIDICULESS BELIF!!!!!
Moving on............. I see alot of places this: "A might hero will still wander around with ALOT of magic."
And people also say this: "Magic heroes only learn magic skills"
Please shut your ignorant mounths shut, plz????
Because lets do this:
1. i start with skill A and B
2. I level up and are offered a new skill called C, or to level one of the ones i got.
3. On every level up i can be offered a skill or level some of the ones i got.
4. Calculating out what to get when, along with what to level at the exact moment and a few more calcuatlions.
5. There is still a chance based on hero class to mess up the planned skillset, if you are not offered what you want.
It can work, and it can fail............
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted May 25, 2008 07:07 PM |
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Why don't u prove your outstanding "magic hero" skill and come to Gamespy and face another human opponent who is an average "might hero" player?
When he killed your magic hero week 3 or week 4, you can again shout something like "shut your ignorant mouth...CHEATER!" 
You will see your magic hero will NOT develop as fast as the might one, because the might one will be able to do fights earlier, coz he deals more damage with EVERY creature he has. Your magic hero deals LESS damage with EACH creature he has, and may cast a magic arrow each round....wow...what a help.
If I got a barbarian hero who starts with 4 in attack, chances are good he will be level 3 soon with expert offense. Means 30% more damage due to offense, and 30% more damage due to 6 attack. Makes 60% in summary...for EACH stack in his army.
____________
Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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liophy
Famous Hero
Bulgarian
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posted May 25, 2008 08:27 PM |
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Del Diablo - how old are you? How many years of experience you have in heroes 3? And the most important - how many games against humans did you play?
The people who talk here, have hundreds of games against other humans. The things that they try to explain you are TESTED, PROVEN, while you talk things that you assume can happen. But in real game they just dont happen.
So you have two options - use the knowledge of the more experienced and developed it, or dont believe the others and try to invent the hot watter.
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fank0
Known Hero
There are no limits
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posted May 26, 2008 05:33 AM |
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He will only accept it when he loses 10 games in a raw ... Then reality would smash his illusions about the game.
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hobowu
Known Hero
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posted May 26, 2008 01:48 PM |
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I don't think del understands the concept of "percentage chance of being offered a skill"
There are many tables for that. And while 3DO and NWC did a great job of balancing HoMM3, they forgot to insert a balance between might and magic heroes.
Might heroes get offered better skills more often than magic heroes, and unless you are having your major battle in week 2 or early week 3, a might hero will win the game.
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liophy
Famous Hero
Bulgarian
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posted May 26, 2008 03:02 PM |
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Edited by liophy at 15:06, 26 May 2008.
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Its not only the skill probabilities.Its the primary stats - attack and deffence
And if you want to balance the might and the magic you must have specific rules. Like:
Allow spell scrolls 4 and 5 level. Allow DD and Fly (still sticking to the rule FMG)
BAN orb of inhibition and Recanter's Cloak
Play only maps, that are open and fast, so week 2 meeting is possible.
Still might will have the upper hand, but magic will have at least a chance.
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