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JotunLogi
Known Hero
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posted February 18, 2015 06:03 AM |
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Depends on the map and circumstances. Normally would choose
+ logistics
+ armourer (always useful)
+ leadership
+ pathfinding
+ luck
+ wisdom
+ earth magic (slow, ressurection, stone skin, implosion, town portal, shield)
+ balistics
Optional skills, useful are water magic and air magic, offense, archery, intelligence, diplomacy (that one can be really op), necromancy (must when playing Necro), artillery (essential while defending a town, useul early in the game)....
But if we know that the terrain consists of grass land, the pathfinding is not that good and can be replaced by other skills. Same with balistics when we have decent lineup to conquer castle (Dungeon or tower do ne without balistics, for fortress it is must). Also when there are many artifacts giving luck and morale, we can choose other skills
For more supporting/ utility heroes- schoarship, ecnomony if therree is lack of money, ablities giving vision and especially movement + spells (magic schools, wisdom)
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Orc
Famous Hero
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posted February 27, 2015 02:48 AM |
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Edited by Orc at 02:49, 27 Feb 2015.
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first, my hero must good speciality: archer or armorrer or offense or resistance or necromancy
second:
-catapult
-resistance
-armorrer
-offense
-Archery, except if I go fortress or inferno or necro and such
-logistic
-Earth Magic
-maybe wisdom, maybe artilery, maybe air magic, depends.
I chose might heroes. I hate magic heroes (esp with implosion, and esp on gold dragon lol)
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cerulean0987
Tavern Dweller
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posted March 25, 2015 06:24 AM |
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Fave skill list in no particular order
1. Wisdom
2. Earth Magic
3. Air Magic
4. Logistics
5. Leadership
6. Luck
7. Archery
8. Offence or defence
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted March 25, 2015 11:31 AM |
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Must-haves for me are:
- Wisdom
- Earth Magic
- Logistics
Nice-to-haves:
- Air Magic
- Offense
- Water Magic (though it depends a bit on the faction)
- Intelligence
- Tactics
- Navigation (on Water maps only)
Situational (depends on Hero and/or on the map):
- Pathfinding
- Artillery
- Archery (especially when playing Tower, this could be useful)
- Resistance
- Armorer
- Leadership
- Ballistics
- Sorcery
- Estates
- Scouting
- Scholar (usually only one Hero in my ensemble)
Last-picks:
- Luck
- Fire Magic
- Eagle Eye
- Mysticism
- First Aid
- Diplomacy
- Learning
- Navigation (on non-Water maps)
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zmudziak22
Supreme Hero
Heroes 3 Fan
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posted March 25, 2015 03:38 PM |
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Must have:
Wisdom
Earth Magic
Logistics
Offense/Inteligence
Nice to have:
Air/Water/Fire Magic (depends on faction)
Archery (Castle, Tower, Dungeon, Stronghold and Conflux)
Artillery (great with barbarians)
Ballistics (great for inferno, stronghold, fortress if we don't have good units)
Tactics (Always consider as useless, now is great one, useful to protect shooters)
Diplomancy(mostly in campaigns when having difficult situation like Yog with disabled Spell Book)
Pathfinding(if we need to cross rough terrains like snow, swamp, rock desert)
Scouts:
Scholar: spell transfering
Estates(Bonus gold)
Scouting(Uncover map)
Eagle Eye( to learn spells from cambat)
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zombiewhacker
Adventuring Hero
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posted March 25, 2015 07:16 PM |
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After all this back-and-forth about skills you would personally choose for your hero, how about a quick discussion about the skills the AI-controlled heroes choose for themselves?
In my opinion, the AI generally does a piss-poor job of selecting and leveling up hero skills. By the time I've come across a defeated tavern hero who's up beyond level 10 or so, he's usually so maxed out with useless skills that it defeats the purpose of hiring him in the first place.
Which gets me thinking:
Is this simply a bug in the game's AI, or is it genuinely reflective of how the original programmers thought the game should be played? ("Hmmm! Expert navigation and mysticism for Crag Hack? How useful!")
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kicferk
Known Hero
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posted March 25, 2015 07:20 PM |
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Afaik, AI heroes have similarly chosen skills as prison ones: randomly. Frankly, I don't think this is how game was supposed to be played.
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zmudziak22
Supreme Hero
Heroes 3 Fan
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posted March 25, 2015 08:18 PM |
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Or Unholy Alliance Protagonists.
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OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted March 25, 2015 09:44 PM |
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Well it's my impression that just because you can create a game, it doesn't necessarily mean you've a good idea of how to play it.
The inventor of modern chess might not have been a very good player.. so when you're tasked to program the AI, you really need some tactical understanding of the game, but most of this is first developed by the community after the game is released.
I've seen things in the tactics threads, especially considering tropes, that I'd never thought possible before seeing it.. I'd not be surprised if there were many issues where the people behind programming the AI had a lot of trouble to determine how to set values to the input the AI received.
One way to deal with this, apart from continuously updating the AI with the help of the community, is to program the AI to learn from the players it plays against. The strength of an AI is that it's much faster at doing what it does, but its weakness is that it's horrible to adapt to things it weren't already prepared for.
Preparing for everything is freaking difficult, that's why it's so much safer to have pilots on a plane than just a computer flying flawlessly (until it meets something it wasn't programmed for).
____________
Living time backwards
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Thant
Tavern Dweller
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posted April 13, 2015 02:33 PM |
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I'd like for the answers to be more detailed about this topic.
For me, it mostly depends on the faction I'm playing. I'm playing 3-4 towns as my favorites since childhood ( Necropolis, Castle, Tower, Rampart ) and it really depends on what I want to focus on ( mainly magic in 100% of the time ).
For example, if I'm playing Necropolis, I'd always choose Thant or Sandro, because my strategy with Necropolis is to emulate the Vampire Lords - fight, die, hit, resurrect, repeat; and for that I need a powerful magician with must have skills:
-Wisdom
-Sorcery
-Earth Magic ( for those Slow, Animate Dead and Town Portals. If I get an Implosion, it's kind of an overkill )
-Mysticism ( I rely on magic a lot, so Mysticism for me is a must-have )
Truth be told, my armies almost always get creamed by losing lots of Skeletons and Wraiths in mid game ( Zombies either guard the town or take the role of a punching bag when I run out of low level creatures ), but Vampire Lords brought me out of impossible situations many times ( against the AI ).
Next, if I'm playing Castle, I always choose Loynis. I make a power oriented play with Castle, and for that I need Bless, Haste and, of course, Prayer which I can't risk of not getting in the Mage Guild. With Loynis I try to get these:
-Wisdom
-Water Magic
-Earth Magic
-Mysticism
-Sorcery
As for Tower and Rampart, I'm still learning about those two. But, I found out how Halon is useful in early-to-mid game for me. With him I can cast lots and lots of spells and minimize my loses.
And the rest skills are situational, although my favorites are:
-Air Magic ( Haste and Lightning Bolt primarily )
-Scholar ( make one hero with Expert Wisdom and Expert Scholar, add maybe Logistics for faster travel, and make him visit my main hero and teach him the new spells. I've read some thrashing about Scholar skill here, and I disagree. This skill is not useless, it's just... extremely limited to certain situations but valuable if you're a heavy magic user )
-Logistics ( for the support hero whose task is to deliver reinforcements )
-Intelligence ( this one is pure luxury in the long run )
Now, bear in mind that my level of play is the Rook ( 130% ) and I still have lots to learn, and I haven't played the game in years.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted April 13, 2015 03:19 PM |
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Kicferk
Known Hero
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posted April 13, 2015 03:24 PM |
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Well, there are a few reasons why many people don't consider mysticism, sorcery or scholar to be among even decent, not to mention desireable skills on a main hero.
Scholar can be useful, as you say, but training a secondary hero to level 5-8 to get advanced wisdom and expert scholar is way better than using up a slot on main hero.
Sorcery looks like a bad joke for me. 15% of extra damage on expert level? Exen with implosion it is just 11 points per point of spellpower. Offence or another school of magic trump sorcery.
And now the best of the best, mysticism. 3 extra points of mana a day? Really? It's as good as a treasure-class artifact. Almost all maps have either magic wells or springs doubling mana points or towns in which you can build mage guild (and therefore recover mana by spending a turn inside). I know Thant starts with this skill and it may make it look good, but it is an illusion, best treated with dispell 
As for general strategies you offered,
For vampire lords a might hero(maybe Vokial) will do way better, as they wil deal more dmg and receive less than in case of magic hero.
And something similar would hold for all factions. In many, many cases(especially long, long games) might heroes are way better than magic ones. And might heroes from certain towns (stronghold, dungeon, fortress) are way better in doing what they are doing.
Cheers
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LizardWarrior 
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted April 13, 2015 03:32 PM |
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Always use Galtharan as a main Hero for Necro, ALWAYS! 
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted April 13, 2015 04:14 PM |
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kicferk said:
Afaik, AI heroes have similarly chosen skills as prison ones: randomly. Frankly, I don't think this is how game was supposed to be played.
I think is not total random. Wisdom is normaly betwen the first four skills, so I think they programmed AI to wait for Wisdom and that's all, no special care about getting magic schools or good might skills. They often have movement increase skills so maybe something there too but nothing so sophisticate as to check if there is any water on map before chosing navigation.
kicferk said:
And now the best of the best, mysticism. 3 extra points of mana a day? Really? It's as good as a treasure-class artifact. Almost all maps have either magic wells or springs doubling mana points or towns in which you can build mage guild (and therefore recover mana by spending a turn inside).
Have you tried the Dracon's campaign? Last scenario there is no way to recover spellpoints. First time I played it I got Intelligence instead of Mysticism and I was so lucky I found the Orb of Mana in my Artifact Merchant about second or third month. I end up with more then half of my mana. Second time I had to pick Mysticism, I was able to end the scenario but I was almost with no mana at all and I had to let go of many Resurrections.
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Thant
Tavern Dweller
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posted April 13, 2015 04:51 PM |
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Kicferk said:
And now the best of the best, mysticism. 3 extra points of mana a day? Really? It's as good as a treasure-class artifact. Almost all maps have either magic wells or springs doubling mana points or towns in which you can build mage guild (and therefore recover mana by spending a turn inside). I know Thant starts with this skill and it may make it look good, but it is an illusion, best treated with dispell
As for general strategies you offered,
For vampire lords a might hero(maybe Vokial) will do way better, as they wil deal more dmg and receive less than in case of magic hero.
Cheers
Everything in your post before this quote is what I agree with. Sorcery does seem weak, even to a noob like me ( go figure ), but I've never done the in-depth math about the game, so I just presume it has a certain effect in the early-to-mid game. In the late game, when my Spell Power is insanely high, Sorcery ceases to be useful.
Now, I don't know what you mean that Thant's Mysticism can be treated with dispell. Could you explain it to me?
Yes, Vokial is good, and I'll consider him when I get to install the game again and play it, see how it goes. But I still appreciate getting the Animate Dead ( same with Prayer and Loynis ). I guess that's my handicap, I rely too much on spells. Oh well.. 
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Kicferk
Known Hero
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posted April 13, 2015 05:16 PM |
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Edited by Kicferk at 17:16, 13 Apr 2015.
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I said that the 'impression' that mysticism is good is an illusion. Illusions should not be treated as facts. So I made a joke about dispelling it(the illusion, not the skill)
BloodSucker, final map of Dragon Slayer is one example of a very specific map. That's why I wrote "almost always" Still, I played it 3 times, once with no mana boosting skills at all, once with mysticism and once with itelligence, and intelligence was way easier to play with. Dracon has around 35 or 40 points of knowledge, 350 is a boost equivalent to 116 days of mysticism, over 4 months. Going through took me around 3
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted April 13, 2015 05:34 PM |
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Sorry if I gave you the impression I was desagreing with you. I was trying to say that even in the most extreme situations, Mysticism is still not the best skill to pick.
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Thant said:
Sorcery does seem weak, even to a noob like me ( go figure ), but I've never done the in-depth math about the game, so I just presume it has a certain effect in the early-to-mid game. In the late game, when my Spell Power is insanely high, Sorcery ceases to be useful.
Actually Sorcery becames more significative when you have "insanely high" Spell Power, the problem is: insanely high damage spells like Meteor Showers, Chain Lightnings and Implosions have a very weak impact late game, when compared to buffering spells like Shield, Bless and Haste or cursing spells like Slow, Curse and Weakness and these aren't affected by spell power or Sorcery skill only mastery of magic schools thus might heroes becoming even more powerfull late game, when they mastered one or two magic schools and have natural fighting skills like armorer and offense instead of sorcery.
Changing subject, in the Orbs of magic description it is said they affect only the damage of spells (making Orb of Driving Rain a joke, what are you going to buffer? Ice Bolt and Frost Ring?). Is this correct?
I always tought they would also increase the effects of Haste, Slow and Prayer, if not their better use is Altar of Sacrifice, 3000 experience looks amazing for Orb of Rain, is less usefull then the Mystic Orb of Mana or the Clover of Fortune...
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husham123
Famous Hero
Yes
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posted April 13, 2015 08:24 PM |
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This are the ones I'd like. But to be in Expert, or they do deserve no SNOW 
Offense
Tactics
Wisdom
Luck
Pathfinding / Navigation
Resistance
Diplomacy
Leadership
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Thant
Tavern Dweller
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posted April 13, 2015 10:27 PM |
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husham123 said:
This are the ones I'd like. But to be in Expert, or they do deserve no SNOW
Offense
Tactics
Wisdom
Luck
Pathfinding / Navigation
Resistance
Diplomacy
Leadership
Wisdom without any magic schools? Not one?
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted April 13, 2015 11:03 PM |
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My top 8 skills:
-Necromancy (skeletons)
-Diplomacy (even more skeletons and creatures that aren't skeletons)
-Offense (stronger skeletons)
-Armorer (tougher skeletons)
-Earth Magic(nobody outruns my skeletons)
-Tactics (tactical skeletons)
-Logistics/Pathfinding (traveling skeletons)
-Wisdom (wiser skeletons)
I may switch Pathfinding or tactics for DD depending on the map. If my opponent runs a lot and uses DD himself, I will give him a taste of his own medicine. I hate when it gives me to chose between two useless skills, like Eagle Eye and Navigation, thank God for WoG and its Market of time. Necro and Diplo are going to make your army grow substantially every day, while offense and armorer are a must have for any hero. Earth magic for slow obviously, while the wisdom it's for Town Portal and DD (even more if I go for air). Fire Magic is fun if you get Berserk vs AI, the area of effect is ridiculous , but I will chose Earth Magic over Fire anytime. Logistics is better than Pathfinding, except if you got to travel a lot on annoying non-native terrain (such as swamp when you're not fortress)
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This thread is pages long: 
