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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: The 8 skills of a hero
Thread: The 8 skills of a hero This thread is 29 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 ... 10 20 ... 25 26 27 28 29 · «PREV / NEXT»
Kicferk
Kicferk


Known Hero
posted April 26, 2015 12:42 PM

Cutting off? 8 days after the end of discussion? No way

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slowpokie
slowpokie

Tavern Dweller
posted May 18, 2015 06:58 PM

personally with respect to thant for using necro

necromancy default
mystism default
wisdom is a must have for lvl 5 spell

earth and air magic is a must have for Dimension door and town portal


leaving with 3 skills left

if preferred intel ( high chance comming for him )
logistic ( on and off getting from him )
offence and maybe sorcery
luck is kinda useful imo in which can change battles

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markmasters
markmasters


Famous Hero
Dragon of justice
posted May 19, 2015 07:05 AM

Logistics
Offence
Armorer
earth magic
water magic
wisdom
Archery
And.....leadership! Love it when some neutrals join you

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Ebonheart
Ebonheart


Famous Hero
Rush the rush
posted May 19, 2015 08:28 AM

markmasters said:
And.....leadership! Love it when some neutrals join you


While in reality it would make sense that great leadership opens up more possibilities for troops to join you, I think that you're thinking of Diplomacy ingame.

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firespirit
firespirit


Famous Hero
with warm hands
posted May 19, 2015 03:36 PM

Ebonheart said:
markmasters said:
And.....leadership! Love it when some neutrals join you


While in reality it would make sense that great leadership opens up more possibilities for troops to join you, I think that you're thinking of Diplomacy ingame.
He may have meant that it's good to have because of the morale penalty.
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slowpokie
slowpokie

Tavern Dweller
posted May 19, 2015 07:21 PM

firespirit said:
Ebonheart said:
markmasters said:
And.....leadership! Love it when some neutrals join you


While in reality it would make sense that great leadership opens up more possibilities for troops to join you, I think that you're thinking of Diplomacy ingame.
He may have meant that it's good to have because of the morale penalty.


have not played online vs players b4.....
but if i am nt wrong necropolis hero cant get diplomacy
or at least v low chance

Some skilles can be countered by artifacTs
like luck and morale
but such artifact may not appear in games

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PawnR
PawnR

Tavern Dweller
posted May 24, 2015 09:35 AM

Wisdom
Earth Magic (for Town Portal and Slow mostly)
Logistics
Armorer
Offense
Resistance
Intelligence
Archery

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LizardWarrior
LizardWarrior


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Age of erwins is over
posted May 24, 2015 09:53 AM

slowpokie said:

have not played online vs players b4.....
but if i am nt wrong necropolis hero cant get diplomacy
or at least v low chance



Necromancers and knights got the same chance to get diplomacy.

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TheFamiliarImp
TheFamiliarImp

Tavern Dweller
posted May 24, 2015 03:13 PM

In SP:

Might heroes:

Logistics
Pathfinding
Armorer
Offense
Leadership
Luck
Wisdom
Magic school (depends which)

Magic:

Logistics
Pathfinding
Sorcery
Wisdom
Intelligence
3 schools of magic (again, depends)
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slowpokie
slowpokie

Tavern Dweller
posted May 31, 2015 06:46 PM

LizardWarrior said:
slowpokie said:

have not played online vs players b4.....
but if i am nt wrong necropolis hero cant get diplomacy
or at least v low chance



Necromancers and knights got the same chance to get diplomacy.



Din know that but wont choose anyway

Sometimes is luck for skill tree

I ever popped out once
choosing eagle eye and balsitic.... kinda useless

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AnkVaati
AnkVaati


Known Hero
Nighonese National Front
posted June 13, 2015 01:16 PM
Edited by AnkVaati at 16:32, 13 Jun 2015.

Two reflections after reading this thread:

Logistics is hugely overrated. it's benefits are hugely situational. In the early game, when it's most beneficial, it's not worth the skill points when compared to skills like offense/armorer, diplomacy, tactics, intelligence etc. By the time you get Expert Logistics you won't really need it anymore, unless your strategy revolves around attacking opponents by chance and leaving your town(s) unguarded. Pathfinding is more useful if you are a non-fortress player stuck on a swamp-dominated map or something.

Fire Magic is hugely underrated, IMHO. If you're playing with a town that's low on ranged attackers, spells like fireball, inferno or land mines adds a lot more to your firepower than different status bonuses, especially against ranged creatures. And Expert Slayer is just.. epic.

Here are my choices:

Tactics/Diplomacy
Resistance/Leadership
Offense
Artillery
Wisdom
Fire Magic
Air Magic/Earth Magic
Intelligence/Archery

Diplomacy should come hand in hand with Leadership to avoid the morale penalties that come with mixing creatures of different towns. Depending on what town you're playing, Intelligence might be more beneficial and vice versa. As for magic skills, I prefer Air Magic (dimension door, fly, chain lighting, haste) over Earth, but that can be quite situational as well. Artillery always come in handy, unless there is absolutely no way for you to get a ballista on the map.

Variant for the magic hero:

Offense/Artillery
Armorer
Wisdom
Intelligence
Fire Magic
Air Magic
Sorcery
Tactics

Sorcery and Expert Fire/Air Magic turns your direct damage spells into literally da bomb even when tackling lvl 7 creatures. Depending on you attack skill, Artillery might be more worthwhile than Offense.

Variant for the Scout:

Navigation
Scholar
Wisdom
Scouting
Logistics
Pathfinding
Offense
Artillery

A lot of (for good reasons) underrated skills here, I know, but it seems some who rarely play on water based maps or non-ToH maps at all forget the situational usefulness of skills like Scholar and Navigation. This isn't a set for the main hero, but rather for one of those heroes you recruit to scout the map and loot goodies, that ideally shouldn't face enemy heroes.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted June 13, 2015 01:41 PM

When human vs human, logistic is a must to have. All is about who is faster, at everything.

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AnkVaati
AnkVaati


Known Hero
Nighonese National Front
posted June 13, 2015 01:52 PM
Edited by AnkVaati at 13:52, 13 Jun 2015.

As someone who plays MP from time to time, I disagree. You won't generally need logistics for looting stuff, nor for defending yourself if you have enough heroes, a viable army and the right spells. The difference becomes neglible. But I guess you are referring to ToH maps, were everything revolves around getting those relics fast.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted June 13, 2015 02:00 PM

30% more movement every day = more actions, more fights, more experience, and so on. We can disagree on water vs fire, eagle eye vs learning, but maths never lie. If you have logistic, you do more things.
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All my Era II mods

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AnkVaati
AnkVaati


Known Hero
Nighonese National Front
posted June 13, 2015 02:56 PM
Edited by AnkVaati at 14:57, 13 Jun 2015.

While I understand it can vary from map to map, you can usually take on all these things effectively if you have enough heroes. No need to waste three skill points on that instead of Offense, Diplomacy, Tactics etc.

The rare situation in the late game were lack of Logistics lets the opponent recruit another bunch of creatures - well, that's quite situational as I said, and besides, one should probably not try to go on the offensive if one can't handle that.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted June 13, 2015 09:07 PM

Diplomacy is not allowed in online tournaments, and when we talk human vs human it means tournament level, not hot seat with your granma.

I don't understand your argument "if we have enough heroes no need of logistic". Everyone is recruiting the maximum number of heroes in a MP game, so the main hero with logistic expert will do 30% more individual things than the main hero without, is so simple as that. Both players are supposed to use at maximum of their possibilities all 8 heroes they got on first day.

The are indeed a few situations where you may skip logistic (if offered same turn as earth or wisdom-unlucky) but any experienced tournament player will confirm its importance.
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fred79
fred79


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
Crotch Connoisseur
posted June 13, 2015 09:30 PM
Edited by fred79 at 21:52, 13 Jun 2015.

my favorite 8 are:

necromancy
wisdom
intelligence(navigation if water map)
logistics
pathfinding
earth magic
air magic
archery (for the liches)

if not a necro hero, then:
mysticism/tactics/resistance for the 8th(if water map, then the above, with navigation).

i prefer playing necro, of course(the avatar should give it away). i don't play multiplayer with other people(haven't for years). and i play my own maps.

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Kicferk
Kicferk


Known Hero
posted June 14, 2015 09:04 AM
Edited by Kicferk at 09:05, 14 Jun 2015.

So,AntVaati let me get this straight.

You pick fire magic and then dump logistics because it is 'situational'? It's fire magic that is situational, the one spell that makes it noticable is rendered useless by Recanters Cloak or Badge of Courage (nor to mention Orb of Inhibition).


Now to your overrated/underrated section. By saying over/under-rated, you probably mean that your opinion about them is actually correct. Let me give you a few quick reasons why it is not.

Fire magic is not underrated. Everyone knows what it can do. It has a few useful spells, just not useful enough. Besides, your argument to support it is just bad. Town that has no shooters needs additional firepower? There are ways of dealing with opposing forces without archers. Like taking retaliation off with one single unit stack and then attacking with all you have. This method is way faster than archers, and does not require mana or silly fire magic.

And even if you find yourself in a situation where you need damage, earth magic has better damaging spells. But vs ranged creatures tactics is what will be most useful, not fire magic. And to top it all off, Slayer is not a good spell, it's useful too rarely. And gives too small bonuses. And only to one stack.

And now the real bummer, logistics being not useful. I have to ask you, do you have any experience with competetive multiplayer? Expert logistics can grant you up to 600 movement points a day, that's 6 tiles of movement per day, 42 per week. Your main hero can kill more monsters, get more experience, get more stats, visit more banks, etc. etc. And in late game your hero can catch opponent more easily, visit more banks, get more stats, etc.

You want all the movement points you can get, because you have 8 heroes from week1, and you can't have more on the map. And you want to clear the map as fast as possible, because your opponent is clearing it as fast as it is possible for him. Assume you got expert logistics on day 7 week 1. Then by the time an average XL game ends, day 7 week 4 your hero will get around 100 extra tiles. That's like 5 extra days for him to take difficult fights and get rewards from them. That is why people take logistics.


Now to point out why some other skills are not so good.

Artillery may do good damage week 1, but it gets obsolete fast. Week 2 your army will be dealing enough damage to make artillery a waste. Plus you can't take ballista where you need it most, into creature banks.

Sorcery is 'da bomb', right. 15% of extra damage, woo-hoo. Sorcery is a piece of crap. Earth magic trumps sorcery every day, it decreases cost of your apparently favourite spells(damage dealing), and it makes town portal powerful. Not to mention resurrection or expert slow.

All in all, I recommend visiting heroes3.tv and watching some players destroy the map with a skillset much different from yours, and then ask yourself whether your skills allow you to do so just as fast. Because clearing map faster than opponent is what makes you stronger and allow you to defeat him. And just to clarify, they play random maps, not ToH ones.
Cheers

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MeKick
MeKick


Hired Hero
posted June 14, 2015 10:11 AM
Edited by MeKick at 10:30, 14 Jun 2015.

AnkVaati said:
Two reflections after reading this thread:

Logistics is hugely overrated. it's benefits are hugely situational.


Since when is having extra movement situational?

AnkVaati said:
spells like fireball, inferno or land mines


Who the cabbage uses land mines???

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted June 14, 2015 11:57 AM

MeKick said:

Who the cabbage uses land mines???


Probably only me, but is fun

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