Heroes of Might and Magic Community
visiting hero! Register | Today's Posts | Games | Search! | FAQ/Rules | AvatarList | MemberList | Profile


Age of Heroes Headlines:  
5 Oct 2016: Heroes VII development comes to an end.. - read more
6 Aug 2016: Troubled Heroes VII Expansion Release - read more
26 Apr 2016: Heroes VII XPack - Trial by Fire - Coming out in June! - read more
17 Apr 2016: Global Alternative Creatures MOD for H7 after 1.8 Patch! - read more
7 Mar 2016: Romero launches a Piano Sonata Album Kickstarter! - read more
19 Feb 2016: Heroes 5.5 RC6, Heroes VII patch 1.7 are out! - read more
13 Jan 2016: Horn of the Abyss 1.4 Available for Download! - read more
17 Dec 2015: Heroes 5.5 update, 1.6 out for H7 - read more
23 Nov 2015: H7 1.4 & 1.5 patches Released - read more
31 Oct 2015: First H7 patches are out, End of DoC development - read more
5 Oct 2016: Heroes VII development comes to an end.. - read more
[X] Remove Ads
LOGIN:     Username:     Password:         [ Register ]
New Server | HOMM1: info forum | HOMM2: info forum | HOMM3: info forum | HOMM4: info forum | HOMM5: info forum | MMH6: wiki forum | MMH7: wiki forum
Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: The 8 skills of a hero
Thread: The 8 skills of a hero This thread is 30 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 ... 10 20 ... 26 27 28 29 30 · «PREV / NEXT»
Warmonger
Warmonger


Promising
Legendary Hero
fallen artist
posted June 14, 2015 01:04 PM

Quote:
spells like fireball, inferno or land mines adds a lot more to your firepower (...) especially against ranged creatures
.

Uhm, not?

Both Fireball and Inferno are weak in terms of damage dealt vs mana, certainly you won't be able to get enough damage to clear whole stack of shooters. Better get expert haste or tactics, or even just Forgetfulness when we talk about magic.
____________

The future of Heroes 3 is here!

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
HeroesWorld
HeroesWorld

Tavern Dweller
posted June 16, 2015 10:16 AM

1  Offence
2. Earth Magic
3. Logistic
4. Wisdom
5. Armorer
6. air Magic
7. archery
8. Intelligence

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
AnkVaati
AnkVaati


Known Hero
Nighonese National Front
posted June 16, 2015 01:00 PM

Kicferk said:
Artillery may do good damage week 1, but it gets obsolete fast. Week 2 your army will be dealing enough damage to make artillery a waste. Plus you can't take ballista where you need it most, into creature banks.
You do have to agree though, that it's easily the most useful of the war machines. With an attack skill of 10, expert archery and artillery, you ballista will do 360 damage/turn. That's one extra dead black dragon each turn as early on as the first week. It comes handy even when your army has grown a bit and especially if you want to rush one of your opponents.

Kicferk said:
Sorcery is 'da bomb', right. 15% of extra damage, woo-hoo. Sorcery is a piece of crap. Earth magic trumps sorcery every day, it decreases cost of your apparently favourite spells(damage dealing), and it makes town portal powerful. Not to mention resurrection or expert slow.
With air magic, you get dimension door and fly on expert level - both which I honestly find more usable than Town Portal. As for sorcery, I wrote that it was for the Mage hero. I do prefer Might Heroes in general as attack and defence trumps SP and Knowledge in the long run, however when you do use a Magic hero, the difference between doing 850 and 1000 damage can be quite hefty.

All in all - I never wrote that Logistics was useless. I wrote that it was overrated. I wouldn't pick it on a main hero if I had to choose between it and something that enhances my abilities on the battlefield. Obviously though, I would pick it over skills like Eagle eye or Estates.

MeKick said:
Who the cabbage uses land mines???
Ever heard of a chick named Luna?

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted June 16, 2015 01:08 PM

Luna comes with fire wall.
____________
All my Era II mods

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
swinm
swinm


Hired Hero
posted June 16, 2015 01:54 PM
Edited by swinm at 13:58, 16 Jun 2015.

RESISTANCE IS A VERY GOOD SECONDARY SKILL

I always try to get RESISTANCE for all my main heroes.

Expert Resistance: 20%
You probably find some of the +5%, +10%, or the +15% Resistance artifacts on the advanture map, so this can be about 35%!

THREE good reasons to have it:

--> Your opponent can't find out that you have Resistance, so he will cast spells NORMALLY.

--> So at the beginning of the fights, usually they cast expert slow, or expert curse etc. Then comes Resistance, and only 5 of your creatures will be slow... opponent won't be happy.

--> When your opponent tries to spell Blind on your unit, and it doesnt happen, he lost 1 turn.

After all, I say Resistance is very good, and can be very important for heroes with noob-magic towns. (Stronghold, Fortress)


My big 8:
--> Logistics - can't disagree
--> Wisdom - can't disagree
--> Offense - can't disagree
--> ___ Magic - can't disagree
--> Resistance - that's why
--> Archery / Armorer - Archery when starting castle has 2 or more shooters
--> Navigation / Luck / Leandership - Navigation is vital in maps with seas.
--> Ballistics - important when you don't really have good fliers

____________
Might > Magic

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Kicferk
Kicferk


Known Hero
posted June 16, 2015 02:38 PM

AnkVaati said:
You do have to agree though, that it's easily the most useful of the war machines. With an attack skill of 10, expert archery and artillery, you ballista will do 360 damage/turn.


10 attack, 2-3 damage per one point of attack, 30 damage max, times 2 shots, times 2 as bonus of artillery. 120. Plus archery, 150. Provided you get exp archery and exp artillery week 1. It is far from 360 damage per turn, you could get your facts right. With 360 damage maybe it could be worthwhile even in week 2.

AnkVaati said:
With air magic, you get dimension door and fly on expert level - both which I honestly find more usable than Town Portal. As for sorcery, I wrote that it was for the Mage hero. I do prefer Might Heroes in general as attack and defence trumps SP and Knowledge in the long run, however when you do use a Magic hero, the difference between doing 850 and 1000 damage can be quite hefty.

I didn't compare earth/air, I compared earth/sorcery. And earth trumps sorcery in every way possible. Also 850 without sorcery would be below 1000 dmg with it.

AnkVaati said:
All in all - I never wrote that Logistics was useless. I wrote that it was overrated. I wouldn't pick it on a main hero if I had to choose between it and something that enhances my abilities on the battlefield. Obviously though, I would pick it over skills like Eagle eye or Estates.

And we are not arguing it is useful, we re arguing that it is so useful that not taking it on main hero is a mistake.

You see, if you play against a human, it will likely end in one big fight. And in this fight logistics does not do a thing. But, logistics does a lot before the fight. It makes you able to gain more army, more stats, more experience. All of which will affect outcome of the fight. You could adress some of those points, or use an argument next time.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted June 16, 2015 02:47 PM

swinm said:
I always try to get RESISTANCE for all my main heroes.


I am unsure about how good would be in human vs human, but vs AI Thorgrim at 50+ level, I found those battle way more difficult than vs Tazar same level. You can't blind, you can't slow, all you can is quick sand and micro manage your moves until resurrect phase is done. But if he also has teleport, then you will pay the price.
____________
All my Era II mods

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Ebonheart
Ebonheart


Famous Hero
Rush the rush
posted June 16, 2015 03:32 PM
Edited by Ebonheart at 15:34, 16 Jun 2015.

Salamandre said:
swinm said:
I always try to get RESISTANCE for all my main heroes.


I am unsure about how good would be in human vs human, but vs AI Thorgrim at 50+ level, I found those battle way more difficult than vs Tazar same level. You can't blind, you can't slow, all you can is quick sand and micro manage your moves until resurrect phase is done. But if he also has teleport, then you will pay the price.

Resistance is simply put, a gambit.
If your opponent is a Earth/Fire Magic user it is sweet to have, in order to foil the enemy's attempt to slow/curse/implosion/berserk you etc.

The obvious downside is that if the enemy is say a Air/Water Magic user the usefulness of it drops as those magic users are more likely to buff their own troops rather than debilitating you. Likewise the scenario of a Earth/Fire Magic hero using spells such as Shield, Stoneskin, Bloodlust or Summon Elemental(s). Not to mention the issue of a hero who has 2 or more magic skills.

The choice for resistance is something I tend to save for the last skillslots when I face a human opponent. It is rather useless against the map and unless you can figure out the enemy's spell school or find a couple of magic resistance items, I find it best to be avoided.
The only town I consider it to be a must for is the Inferno due to the generally low health of the troops, and even then I also wait with it until I got the more primary skills sorted.

But I agree with you Sala, fighting Thorgrim is much more painful than Tazar. At least PC wise.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
swinm
swinm


Hired Hero
posted June 16, 2015 06:26 PM

RESISTANCE IS STILL A VERY GOOD SECONDARY SKILL

Ebonheart said:
Salamandre said:
swinm said:
I always try to get RESISTANCE for all my main heroes.


I am unsure about how good would be in human vs human, but vs AI Thorgrim at 50+ level, I found those battle way more difficult than vs Tazar same level. You can't blind, you can't slow, all you can is quick sand and micro manage your moves until resurrect phase is done. But if he also has teleport, then you will pay the price.

Resistance is simply put, a gambit.
If your opponent is a Earth/Fire Magic user it is sweet to have, in order to foil the enemy's attempt to slow/curse/implosion/berserk you etc.

The obvious downside is blahblahblahlblah



In my opinion RESISTANCE is important when they cast slow/blind/curse/etc on you, not when damaging spells - in the late fights, a 5000 dmg Implosion still doesn't matter.

Which skill would you use instead of RESISTANCE?
____________
Might > Magic

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Kicferk
Kicferk


Known Hero
posted June 16, 2015 07:18 PM

Resistance will do nothing to prevent opponent buffing his units(shield, haste, etc. ) or summoning elementals/forcefields and so on. So it loses a bit of its charm.

Offence, armorer and tactics are more useful might skills. Air and earth magic are way better as well. Logistics contrary to some beliefs is top level skill.

That leaves 2 slots. Usually taking wisdom is a good choice for one of them, as many ways of getting spells (boxes, guilds) require wisdom to work.

The last slot may well go to resistance. But it is situational. On some maps pathfinding would be better. If you happen to have shooting powerstacks, perhaps while playing Tower, archery is a decent skill. If you use DD to clear treasure areas with main hero scouting can prove useful.

Also, one thing about resistance, orb of vulnerability negates any effects it has.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
MeKick
MeKick


Hired Hero
posted June 16, 2015 07:36 PM

MeKick said:
Who the cabbage uses land mines???
Ever heard of a chick named Luna?


At this point, I can't help but feel you're trolling.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Ebonheart
Ebonheart


Famous Hero
Rush the rush
posted June 16, 2015 07:52 PM

MeKick said:
At this point, I can't help but feel you're trolling.

I think he is serious to be honest. Then again every player is allowed to have their views on the game and its details.

As for you Kicferk - don't forget the red orb aswell. xP

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Kicferk
Kicferk


Known Hero
posted June 16, 2015 08:13 PM

Red orb actually increases usefulness of resistance imo.

Armor of the Damned still works with red orb, so if you are on receiving end of it you want to have some resistance so that not all of your units are slowed. This can actually be the difference between win and loss.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted June 16, 2015 08:46 PM

Actually I take it sometimes in single player. Here is the map Ice Arrow for era (author: doc summan) with one of its most annoying battles, Bonesmasher. Resistance expert + the boots saved my ass so gave me the time to cast antimagic on everyone then win the fight.

Bonesmasher

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
swinm
swinm


Hired Hero
posted June 17, 2015 07:33 PM

Kicferk said:
Resistance will do nothing to prevent opponent buffing his units(shield, haste, etc. ) or summoning elementals/forcefields and so on. So it loses a bit of its charm.

Offence, armorer and tactics are more useful might skills. Air and earth magic are way better as well. Logistics contrary to some beliefs is top level skill.

...........
Also, one thing about resistance, orb of vulnerability negates any effects it has.


Water magic RAPES Earth magic if fly, d.door, etc are disabled. Check the list again please: water magic spells list

bless, cure, dispel, visions, TELEPORT, CLONE, PRAYER
____________
Might > Magic

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
LizardWarrior
LizardWarrior


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Age of erwins is over
posted June 17, 2015 07:36 PM

Quote:
Water magic RAPES Earth magic if fly, d.door, etc are disabled.


What has earth magic to do with fly and dd?

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Kicferk
Kicferk


Known Hero
posted June 17, 2015 07:52 PM

You are clearly exaggerating.

In direct confrontation water magic is not a clear winner.

It has great potential to control the fight with cure and dispell. However, earth magic has a great buffing potential. Shield gives huge bonus, and implosion deals huge damage, which can't be prevented by water magic at all. Also, well used slow will punish water magic user quite severely.

But there is one thing that makes earth way better than water. Its effectiveness vs the map.

Expert slow allows you to deal with most wandering monsters easier and cheaper than any spell in water magic can aspire to. This becomes particularly handy in griffin conservatories early on.

Expert shield makes dragon utopias doable with way smaller loses than bless or prayer, and at significantly lower cost than the latter. Also, resurrection in dragon utopias allows to negate some losses entirely - and water magic does not.

So all in all it seems earth magic does not need town portal to be better than water in online competetive games.

Unless you were talking about single player, in which case resurrection, antimagic, slow and force field trump whatever you have in water magic...

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
MeKick
MeKick


Hired Hero
posted June 17, 2015 07:59 PM

swinm said:
Which skill would you use instead of RESISTANCE?


I'd throw on Orb of Inhibition and grab Armorer instead. :^)

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
slowpokie
slowpokie

Tavern Dweller
posted June 17, 2015 08:42 PM

But hey.....

If you are necro hero

Oppo with resistance is not exact v power

Since undead immune to mind spells

Mainly earth magic

But imo to choose expert earth for its tp and ressurect over mutiple DD
i would say earth do have its edge over air
at least tts what i feel

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Ebonheart
Ebonheart


Famous Hero
Rush the rush
posted June 17, 2015 09:31 PM
Edited by Ebonheart at 21:32, 17 Jun 2015.

Kicferk said:

In direct confrontation water magic is not a clear winner.

Agreed. Depends on the factions and circumstances though ofc.
Kicferk said:

It has great potential to control the fight with cure and dispell. However, earth magic has a great buffing potential. Shield gives huge bonus, and implosion deals huge damage, which can't be prevented by water magic at all. Also, well used slow will punish water magic user quite severely.
It will be a battle of minds, water can punish earth by removing both slow and shield just as earth can attempt to get a double cast via slow.
Kicferk said:

But there is one thing that makes earth way better than water. Its effectiveness vs the map.
Expert slow allows you to deal with most wandering monsters easier and cheaper than any spell in water magic can aspire to. This becomes particularly handy in griffin conservatories early on.

It is handy but not mandatory. One can clear the map just fine without Earth Magic, but it will certainly be easier in some fights to have a matching magic school which in a few more cases proves to be Earth.
Kicferk said:

Expert shield makes dragon utopias doable with way smaller loses than bless or prayer, and at significantly lower cost than the latter. Also, resurrection in dragon utopias allows to negate some losses entirely - and water magic does not.

Depends on the town, for slow towns like Stronghold and Tower shield loses a lot of value as you can't pre-cast it. Ressurection is handy but once again not mandatory to have with Earth Magic. Ressing up a troop stack just to soak tends to work just fine.
Kicferk said:
So all in all it seems earth magic does not need town portal to be better than water in online competetive games.
I fully agree, Town Portal is just a sweet bonus in my opinion.
Kicferk said:
Unless you were talking about single player, in which case resurrection, antimagic, slow and force field trump whatever you have in water magic...

Well technically the map is always single player, only the end battle is not.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Jump To: « Prev Thread . . . Next Thread » This thread is 30 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 ... 10 20 ... 26 27 28 29 30 · «PREV / NEXT»
Post New Poll    Post New Topic    Post New Reply

Page compiled in 0.0551 seconds