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| Thread: Invisibility overpowered + Starwars start! |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · «PREV |
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted December 06, 2007 02:17 PM |
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Edited by samiekl at 16:18, 06 Dec 2007.
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albeP, dont you think you should ask before posting my link in other forums? especially when you used it in another context... If you think invisibility is overpowered you should play vs real people and you'll see that even with insane fast creeping dungeon can easily lose. Why? because other faction's creeping potential has also been improved. Invisibility means no losses for dungeon, that leads to an attempt to make dungeon survive in final fight. Unfortunately it's still not enough, because even with a stronger hero and army dungeon is disadvantaged in final fight (no defense, no light, not good enough creatures). You tell me when you can win vs a good player without hit-and-runs, ok?
Here's how dungeon's "overpowered" stalker-creeping can do in final fight when no hit-and-run is possible: http://www.speedyshare.com/645499466.html
This replay you CAN post wherever you want, but please stop claiming things that are FAR from the truth.
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TemjinGold
Known Hero
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posted December 06, 2007 04:45 PM |
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Quote:
I picked lighting mastery so later in the game when i split stalkers into many smaller stacks and only have one stack invisible at a time to lure units for AOE spells i can stun creatures who go after the visible stacks. As for empowered spells, i didn't cast any in the video... Also i cant (or perhaps have only 2 stacks) split the stalkers into 1 unit stacks because they wouldn't be able to survive to draw all the attackers there to AOE.
When mana is low, going up the Destruction tree for more damage and better spells should be the first priority as there will be plenty of opportunity later on to pick either lightning or ice mastery. All things considered, efficient creeping should prioritize what helps you NOW over what helps you LATER but to each his own. As for splitting, I didn't say split off ONE stalker. You lost quite a few there with all those dogs chewing you up every turn. Had you split off say 3 (was 2 enough even? couldn't see how many dogs there were as the res was real low), that should've survived just long enough for the last stack to move into position. Then, if you didn't cast the ligtning, you could've spent all of your mana on stone spikes AFTER they move into position, allowing you to do maximum damage with the mana you have (as you would hit 3 stacks each time.)
Even with just one stack of stalkers, you would've still been better served by moving into position first, having your hero use his normal attack for a couple of turns, then attack as invis was about to wear off and THEN have your hero cast all stone spikes now that the dogs are in position.
Anyways, I'm not saying there's only one correct way to play or anything I just wanted to share better ways to win that fight so I hope you don't take these posts the wrong way.
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TemjinGold
Known Hero
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posted December 06, 2007 05:10 PM |
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Thats because any faction can take those fights. They only have different ways of doing it.
There you go... early powercreeping:
http://www.speedyshare.com/345160245.html
Invisibility is by no means overpowered.
I'm curious, why did the summoned Pit Lords only use Vulnerability on your stalkers and not Meteor shower? They could've really ripped you a new one had they done that. Was this on a low difficulty or does the AI always do this to stalkers?
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted December 06, 2007 05:12 PM |
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Lol you thought infiltrator a noob?
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted December 06, 2007 05:13 PM |
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Because they do that when army is inferior.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted December 06, 2007 05:13 PM |
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Quote:
I'm curious, why did the summoned Pit Lords only use Vulnerability on your stalkers and not Meteor shower? They could've really ripped you a new one had they done that. Was this on a low difficulty or does the AI always do this to stalkers?
Actually they seem to almost never use fireball now. I've seen this quite a few times on hard.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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neinspiratul
Hired Hero
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posted December 06, 2007 09:55 PM |
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nice fight samiekl but it doesn't prove that dungeon is underpowered. u really had some bad luck there(in fact it's the other way around: gmmari was very lucky+used a hero many still consider imba).
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted December 06, 2007 10:18 PM |
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Edited by samiekl at 22:52, 06 Dec 2007.
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What bad luck? there was no bad luck involved. i'm not saying it's underpowered, i'm saying that without that extremely fast creeping it's useless. And even with that you still need hit and runs to win. And wyn-gay-al is not overpowered anymore and neither is deleb. if i could kill those unicorns before final fight i would have won (and unicorns should be your main targets for hit and runs).
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okrane
Famous Hero
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posted December 07, 2007 11:08 AM |
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Quote:
albeP, dont you think you should ask before posting my link in other forums? especially when you used it in another context... If you think invisibility is overpowered you should play vs real people and you'll see that even with insane fast creeping dungeon can easily lose. Why? because other faction's creeping potential has also been improved. Invisibility means no losses for dungeon, that leads to an attempt to make dungeon survive in final fight. Unfortunately it's still not enough, because even with a stronger hero and army dungeon is disadvantaged in final fight (no defense, no light, not good enough creatures). You tell me when you can win vs a good player without hit-and-runs, ok?
Here's how dungeon's "overpowered" stalker-creeping can do in final fight when no hit-and-run is possible: http://www.speedyshare.com/645499466.html
This replay you CAN post wherever you want, but please stop claiming things that are FAR from the truth.
wow... ownage...
First of all did he have Nature's Luck? Cause every hit was a lucky one...
Secondly, why did this fight happen so late game? I mean 40 emeralds... that's like month 3 with multiple towns. Normally Dungeon should attack quicker than this.
And furthermore, if you cannot do hit n runs how about suicide attacks?
You were level 30. Mentoring another warlock would have brought him to lvl 20 or so and those trained heroes could armaggeddon suicide ...
Thirdly I agree Dungeon late game is crappy. But still... isn't Sylvan too strong at the end? and moreover, it seems to me all sylvan alternates are better than the original ones.
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okrane
Famous Hero
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posted December 07, 2007 11:10 AM |
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Quote:
(and unicorns should be your main targets for hit and runs).
why?
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted December 07, 2007 04:33 PM |
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Yes, it was nature's luck, but that's not important. It was not so late in the game (month 2) and sylvan can have dragons very early. Killing unicorns is a priority because they last the longest from all sylvan troops and deal a lot of damage. The other troops die easily as you can see yourself from the replay. Mentoring is not an option because you need swift mind.
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okrane
Famous Hero
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posted December 07, 2007 05:30 PM |
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you had swift mind?? wow... that wyngraal really adds to initiative... your hero acted really late compared to sylvan units... basically they all acted before your hero. so Swift Striker > Swift Mind.
Still a memory mentor can help.
By the way, what kind of map is this when you can reach lvl 29 in month 2 and 40 emerald dragons? Why did you have so few Shadow Dragons, and why weren't they upgraded?
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted December 07, 2007 05:37 PM |
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there were init artifacts involved. fortunately(or not) we both had the same init artifacts. and swift striker is not better than swift mind (without swift mind i wouldnt have any chance to cast).The map is hourglass (search for it in toh forum), but its not easy to accomplish those things. My dragons arent few, in fact they are quite many, but to upgrade them is a luxury. i cant remember if i ever upgraded dragons. There is a lot of info in the dungeon strategy thread, i dont get why we must discuss those things over and over again.
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okrane
Famous Hero
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posted December 08, 2007 12:23 AM |
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because seeing that battle makes me think dungeon is underpowered
and because as I did not play multiplayer I am trying to get a better idea about how a game usually develops
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted December 08, 2007 12:43 AM |
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No, i said before, there's no such thing as overpowered faction. Trying to get a better idea without playing online is not an option because you wont be able to figure out how to beat those factions just by reading about it, you have to test it yourself, see what you're doing wrong, and what you're really going against. Playing vs ai wont win you games vs real people, no matter how good you are in single player. Thats something i experienced myself.
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Adon
Known Hero
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posted December 08, 2007 01:01 AM |
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The only thing about playing against the AI is you learn how to creep fast and efficiently. Dungeon is probably the best at this post stalkers but even then, you're limited by a small mana pool in the first few days especially. Other factions like wizards for instance can use gremlins, war machines and spells to creep as quickly as Stalker-using-Dungeon and without losing troops.
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Lordi
Known Hero
I Dance on the Lava
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posted December 08, 2007 03:30 AM |
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sorry for this, but im kinda a noob for heroes, even tho i played heroes 3 when i was young and it was my dream game, but uh im just not good in tactics
so my question is, what's special in this movie? XD
it just shows the special ability of the new unit..
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Duncan
Famous Hero
The Pathfinder
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posted December 08, 2007 05:22 AM |
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It's a special ability that did not exist in the prequels (the original and HoF), and because it now boosts Dungeon's creepings. As Alci said, actually lots have been discussed in other Dungeon threads, it's just that the Star Wars intro was quite fun (I agree) that it's given a thread of its own 
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But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it.
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okrane
Famous Hero
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posted December 08, 2007 01:32 PM |
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No, i said before, there's no such thing as overpowered faction. Trying to get a better idea without playing online is not an option because you wont be able to figure out how to beat those factions just by reading about it, you have to test it yourself, see what you're doing wrong, and what you're really going against. Playing vs ai wont win you games vs real people, no matter how good you are in single player. Thats something i experienced myself.
well I don't have a lot of time for that... by making an idea, I mean something similar to watching a replay of a RTS game between pros. cause you cannot watch a full game of heroes like you would in the case of a RTS game
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted December 08, 2007 03:49 PM |
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you can always save your game and continue when you have time. its a regular practice in toh.
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