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Heroes Community > Tavern of the Rising Sun > Thread: On the Nature of Symbols
Thread: On the Nature of Symbols This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
Elvin
Elvin


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posted December 19, 2007 09:10 PM bonus applied.

On the Nature of Symbols

My university's 80th anniversary is tomorrow and it is a most glorious day, it sparks the beginning of my holidays Since I get a little more free time(and am a bit tired to go out) I got the chance to make a thread on one of my favourite subjects, the symbols. You can bet that I liked Vlaad's thread on homm artifacts
I should mention that I am hardly an expert on the matter and can only scratch the surface but maybe some people here can share more

[NONSENSICAL RANT]

By their nature symbols carry significance, a deeper meaning and you could even say power. Some are based on belief, others on history, others allegory and can transcend our conscious mind often triggering subconscious thoughts but one things is for sure, they can have an impact on us.
They have no specific function, it varies with the symbol. Could be a revelation of something unknown, instructions in performing a task, a representation of a group, a warning or a formula amongst others. To put it simple it is a means for perceiving a situation, idea, emotion that it reveals indirectly. Sometimes it is no simple task because you have no idea where to even begin, it may require a key to crack the code as ideas are laid upon others to hide what is underneath. Of course there is no school of symbology as we can see in the Da Vinci code but the idea was interesting

Some are universal and easily recognized such as the triangle() while others are tied to a specific culture or person that made it up. In the passing of time some lose their original meaning and gain a new one to match their transition to a new era to which people associate them. Yeah people just like associating things and bringing parallels What we now know as the pentagram was once the star of Aphrodite and not associated with satanism in any way. I guess it depends on what you have in mind when looking at a symbol

I suppose it's the mystery that surrounds them and how they convey their messages that make them intriguing for me. Onwards to the less boring stuff!

[/NONSENSICAL RANT]

A few notable examples.



One that you probably know is my avatar, the phoenix The legend says that when it dies it rises from its ashes to live once again and therefore it is a symbol of renewal, the endless cycle between life and death. In a way that also reminds of the cycle of the seasons from spring to winter so there is little surprise that it initially appeared in the sorceress town with ties to nature.



Speaking of avatars, the avatar is another symbolism. In Hinduism the avatar is an incarnation, a corporeal manifestation of a higher being on earth. In much the same way the avatar is an 'image' of us, something that we like appearing as



Another well known is the tao, composed of yin and yang the two halfs of all antitheses that sprang from the cosmic egg. Tao can be roughly stated to be the flow of the universe, or the force behind the natural order. Tao is believed to be the influence that keeps the universe balanced and ordered. The cycle of yin and yang is the cycle of life, death and eternal rebirth. But the two opposites don't conflict but complement each other to achieve the cosmic harmony.



The rose has more than one meanings. One is silence, a symbol of secrets and so they were used to mark council rooms as private. It is also a symbol of immortality and as you'd expect of love. In wikipedia it is cited that according to the Robert Bangert certain rose colors carry specific symbolic meanings:
   * Red: love, "I Love You"
   * Pink: grace, gentle feelings of love
   * Dark Pink: gratitude
   * Light Pink: admiration, sympathy
   * White: innocence, purity, secrecy, friendship, reverence and humility.
   * Yellow: often akin to joy and deep friendship or platonic love. In German-speaking countries, however, they can mean jealousy and infidelity.
   * Yellow with red tips: Friendship, falling in love
   * Orange: passion
   * Burgundy: beauty
   * Blue: mystery



The cosmic tree is one that you see in many traditions. It is a variation of the cosmic axis that supposedly connects the underworld, the earth and the sky. In the Norse legends it is called Yggdrasil the World Tree located at the center of the universe and joining the nine worlds of Norse cosmology. The trunk of the tree may be thought of as forming a vertical axis around which these worlds are situated, with Ásgard, realm of the gods, at the top and the underworld realm of Niflheim at the bottom. Midgard, the world of mortals, is located in the middle and surrounded by Jötunheim, land of giants, both of which are separated by the ocean.



According to Sigmund Freud our suppressed urges and impulses are released through our dreams in disguised forms. Our superego enforces the moral codes for the ego and blocks unacceptable impulses from our unconscious. Because your guard is down during the dream state, your unconscious has the opportunity to act out and express its hidden desires but can only do that with the use of symbolism - the dreams. That theory has been criticized but there is little doubt that dreams often have a secret meaning.



Runes are one of the most powerful symbols for the Northern Europeans an alphabet with magical and phonetic value. It's origin is the word rum meaning a secret or whisper. According to tradition it was taught to the men by Odin the king of the Gods and were used to predict the future or carved on wood/stone to magically affect a situation or empower a person or object, usually a weapon. Now you know the origin of enchanted weapons



These are some I found intriguing, any others you can think of? I welcome  additions if I have overlooked something and hope to see more
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roy-algriffin
roy-algriffin


Supreme Hero
Chocolate ice cream zealot
posted December 19, 2007 09:52 PM

i Always thought the rose symbolised something prickly

How about the thumbs up smiley? Symbolizes approval i guess
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Geny
Geny


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What if Elvin was female?
posted December 19, 2007 09:57 PM

Or a sore thumb.

(sorry, elvin, I just couldn't let your thread live without spam, now everybody, get on-topic)
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Ceres
Ceres


Supreme Hero
and sweetness
posted December 20, 2007 02:05 PM

Hmm... nice idea, Elvin!

I like the idea of yin yang, actually some of my basic principles in life I had taken from there. And the roses, so romantic! And with the dreams, I agree with that.
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Elvin
Elvin


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posted December 20, 2007 02:43 PM
Edited by Elvin at 14:46, 20 Dec 2007.

What principles would they be? And about the dream there is more to it, Freud thought they all are expressions of primal urges and sex instincts. For instance sharp or long objects are a phalus reference and you can guess what the cups, glasses and holes are

I don't really agree. If our 'superego' really suppresses and filters images that we should not see them I should me mortally wounded I have seen sex scenes just as I have seen and felt myself or others dying. I don't see why dreams HAVE to be motivated by something. Since they come from your own mind they might as well be random pictures mixed with thoughts.

Edit: You are right, they also symbolize pain and loss just like love can be.
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Ceres
Ceres


Supreme Hero
and sweetness
posted December 20, 2007 03:33 PM

Freud is scary.  But I agree on his ideas.  The human mind is very vast.  And as far as I remember when I took Psychology class, I think I had the idea that the human mind can kill the human itself. Scary, indeed
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roy-algriffin
roy-algriffin


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Chocolate ice cream zealot
posted December 20, 2007 07:28 PM

Not actively . But i suppose depression and insanity and lack of the abilities to survive can indirectly lead to death
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Lord_of_Chaos
Lord_of_Chaos


Known Hero
Chaotic Entity
posted December 21, 2007 08:17 PM

Quote:


The cosmic tree is one that you see in many traditions. It is a variation of the cosmic axis that supposedly connects the underworld, the earth and the sky. In the Norse legends it is called Yggdrasil the World Tree located at the center of the universe and joining the nine worlds of Norse cosmology. The trunk of the tree may be thought of as forming a vertical axis around which these worlds are situated, with Ásgard, realm of the gods, at the top and the underworld realm of Niflheim at the bottom. Midgard, the world of mortals, is located in the middle and surrounded by Jötunheim, land of giants, both of which are separated by the ocean.



Yes, I've heard of this symbol before, both in school and from one of my favourite video games. In the game Tales of Symphonia, there is a gigantic tree, originaly just called the world tree, but later renamed to Yggdrasil. The tree was the source of all mana and in their world, mana was just as important as air. The main villain in the game is Mithos Yggdrasil, a half elf who claimed he was an angel, and was supposed to rid the world of all who oppressed half elves. After his defeat, the main character named the world tree Yggrasil, in honor of Mithos' original intentions. In the game there is a town called Asgard, although it doesn't have very much to do with the gods. It is just small, mountainous town which rests close to the ruins containing the spirit of air. There is also a town called Heimdall, it is a secluded town of elves and is the town considered to be closest to the heavens. So, obviously, this game is based on the mythology of the Norse.
Just thought I'd share .
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Elvin
Elvin


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posted December 21, 2007 09:06 PM
Edited by Elvin at 12:51, 22 Dec 2007.

Yeah there are many variations on that and it is the object in many games, mostly rpg In mystic quest there was the tree of life that grew on mount Illusia and it grew with the power of will from the people in the land. It could give eternal power to the one who touched its roots and naturally the Dark Lord(yeah a bit cliche ) sought its power.

If you check tree of life on wikipedia you'll be surprised how many cultures speak about one.

An update



This is a symbol I'm sure none of you has ever heard of, the cross I suppose most people would associate it with Christian worship but this thingy has been around since antiquity, often used as a charm and it has the meaning of rebirth, immortality and a symbol of the four parts of the horizon. Such crosses have been found in ancient Greece, Cyprus, Egypt, Persia, India, Africa and elsewhere with some variations.

In Egypt it was the symbol of life, considered to have mystical properties and was worn by the priests and pharaoh. It even was part of druid worship and idolatry.

The funny part is that after Christ was crucified there was no mention of the cross, it was considered abhorrent. It was a lot later that the Christians made it a holy symbol, probably influenced by idolatry that already used it. Would make sense, it's a known fact that Christians borrowed some pagan beliefs.
Now it is considered as the means through which we received salvation and freedom from the fear of death by Christ's own sacrifice.

Some examples:

The Ankh(Ancient Egypt)



Greek cross



High cross(Celtic)



St Brigid's cross(Ireland)



Lorraine's cross



Red cross(You should know that )


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Lord_of_Chaos
Lord_of_Chaos


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Chaotic Entity
posted December 23, 2007 01:57 AM

And also, the swastika (dont know how to spell it) is also a cross, but with the ends bent. I'm pretty sure it meant to have the opposite meaning and symbolism of a standard cross.
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Daystar
Daystar


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posted December 23, 2007 04:01 AM
Edited by Daystar at 04:03, 23 Dec 2007.

I know the 26 runes and their translations into English characters by heart, and am learning the meanings.

Meanings I know:
Thursatz: Brute Strength
Ingwaz: Inner Strength
Uruz: Perserverance
Isa: Ice, Waiting
Laguaz: Water
Jera: Fertility
Algiz: The Yew Tree, Protection


Yes, I am a geek.
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Elvin
Elvin


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posted December 23, 2007 10:40 AM
Edited by Elvin at 15:45, 23 Dec 2007.

Can you post a pic of each?

I'll post something about the swastika when I'm back.

Oh and thanks

 

Some of you probably miss the fact that the swastica is not a nazi invention, it is an ancient symbol that can be traced back to the neolithic age
By just looking at it you get a sense of wheel-like motion for which it is associated with the sun, some cultures believed that as the sun turns so does our life on earth. It symbolizes the constant change of things.
At the same time its four edges turn around one centre  which is considered as the source of all power and gives the swastika a picture of 'creative cosmic energy that comes from the sun, the natural source of all fertility'.

its names comes from the Sanskrit sv-asti-ka that means "little thing associated with well-being," or the simpler good luck

From wikipedia:

The swastika has an extensive history. The motif seems to have first been used in Neolithic India. The symbol has an ancient history in Europe, appearing on artifacts from pre-Christian European cultures. In antiquity, the swastika was used extensively by the Indo-Aryans, Hittites, Celts and Greeks, among others. In particular, the swastika is a sacred symbol in Hinduism, Buddhism and Jainism — religions with over a billion adherents worldwide, making the swastika ubiquitous in both historical and contemporary society. The symbol was introduced to Southeast Asia by Hindu kings and remains an integral part of Balinese Hinduism to this day, and it is a common sight in Indonesia. It also was adopted independently by several Native American cultures.

In the Western world, the symbol experienced a resurgence following the archaeological work in the late 19th century of Heinrich Schliemann, who discovered the symbol in the site of ancient Troy and associated it with the ancient migrations of Proto-Indo-Europeans. He connected it with similar shapes found on ancient pots in Germany, and theorized that the swastika was a "significant religious symbol of our remote ancestors", linking Germanic, Greek and Indo-Iranian cultures. By the early 20th century, it was widely used worldwide and was regarded as a symbol of good luck and success.


Heh times change don't they.



Seals from the Indus Valley Civilization, check the first one



An Iranian necklace from first millennium BC.



A Roman mosaic.



Even of Buddhist temples
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Ayreon
Ayreon


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posted December 23, 2007 06:07 PM

such a waste that the nazi's disgraced those
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Daystar
Daystar


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Back from the Dead
posted December 23, 2007 07:42 PM
Edited by Daystar at 19:48, 23 Dec 2007.


Fehu relates to wealth in the form of material possessions, esspecially cattle.

Uruz relates to enduring physical strength and the Auroch, or wild Ox.

Thurisaz: Brute Strength, Thorns, Giants, etc.  It has various other relations to fire, destruction, and male fertility.  It is often mistakenly asscociated with the God Thor.

Ansuz relates to elightenment, comunication, and Odin, the God of wisdom.  (see above)

Raidho is all about Travel.

Kenaz indicates a torch, vision, or guidance.

Gebo = Gifts

Wunjo is Joy.

Hagalaz indicates the destructive aspect of Nature, especially Hail, as well as a challenge.

Nauthiz indicates need, a detour, waiting or a slow down.

Isa.  Ice.

Jera, as said before, goes with the Harvest.  You know that feeling when you get home from work/school on a Friday and finally get to sit down with Cocoa?  That's Jera.

Eiwaz is one of my favorites.  Its about inner strength.

Perthro has a lot of meanings based on the source you use.  They all agree on Chance, Secrecy, and Magic.

Algiz is the sheild to Eihwaz's Sword.  It indicates the Elk, as well as the urge to protect others.

Sowilo is tied up with the Sun, as well as goals achieved and goodenss in general.

Tiwaz is the leader's rune: Honor, authority, self sacrifice.

Berkano is the birth rune, as well as growth and new love.

Ehwaz is transportation, especially the method of transport.

Mannaz: The self, society.

Laguz: Water, healing, insight, and energy.

Ingwaz: The Earth, Family love.

Dagaz is the Day, Dawn, Clarity.

Othala indicates possessions handed down over generations, heritage.
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Elvin
Elvin


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posted December 23, 2007 07:48 PM
Edited by Elvin at 19:49, 23 Dec 2007.

Awesome, thanks daystar! Let's see what matches my personality
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Daystar
Daystar


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Back from the Dead
posted December 23, 2007 07:53 PM

Tiwaz.
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Elvin
Elvin


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posted December 23, 2007 08:01 PM
Edited by Elvin at 20:06, 23 Dec 2007.

Hard to pick one, I mostly value those four.


Eiwaz is about inner strength.


Sowilo is tied up with the Sun, as well as goals achieved and goodness in general.


Tiwaz is the leader's rune: Honor, authority, self sacrifice.


Laguz: Water, healing, insight, and energy.

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Geny
Geny


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What if Elvin was female?
posted December 23, 2007 08:14 PM

My favorite is Wunjo:
Quote:

Wunjo is Joy.


Which surprisingly looks like the first letter in the word Peanut.
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JoonasTo
JoonasTo


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What if Elvin was female?
posted December 23, 2007 08:43 PM

Maybe vikings liked peanuts too.
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Daystar
Daystar


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Back from the Dead
posted December 23, 2007 09:11 PM

Note: Kenaz should look like [   <   ] this, but I can't get the image to work.  Also, Sowilo is sometimes rotated:

/
\
/

to be like an S.
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