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| Thread: My H6 faction suggestion |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Astral9
Tavern Dweller
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posted March 29, 2008 11:01 PM |
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Edited by Astral9 at 23:03, 29 Mar 2008.
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That's a quiet intresting idea netsrek, it would be nice if the easy and not so challening fights didn't have so big "maps" so they could end quicker.
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netserk
Tavern Dweller
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posted March 30, 2008 10:50 AM |
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Edited by netserk at 10:53, 30 Mar 2008.
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thank you
and another reason why it should be small against neutral creatures, could be that you can't just kill the map with some fast n/r or some fast shooters. because in HoMM 5 you could with one fast flyer kill all slow walkers with your hero attacking.
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thehiddeneye
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 04, 2008 10:04 AM |
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Up next...
First, hello again. Haven't been able to comment for 2 weeks, but now I'm back. And so...
First my response to Astral9:
I'm not done with the factions yet- I have the Citadel and the Conflux left (the two remaining Neutral factions). Right now I don't think my version of H6 will have Neutrals at all- I want every creature to be faction-related, since each faction represents a people, nation or terrain dwellers. Some of the things I have left are (if I do them all):
* Combat
* The remaining 2 factions (Citadel will be next, and Conflux is final)
* Factions in detail (extremely long)- creature appearance, suggested stats (in general- no numbers), ability description and combat role.
* Economy
* Common building explanation
* The adventure map
* The magic schools (will be very long)
* Skills and abilities (will be very long)
* The map editor- on Custom factions, map layers and other stuff...
* 6 Suggested campaigns
The next posts will be the factions and Combat.
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Astral9
Tavern Dweller
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posted April 04, 2008 01:27 PM |
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Thanks for the info hidden .Glad your back and posting again.
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thehiddeneye
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 04, 2008 06:24 PM |
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The Citadel
- The Citadel-
Alignment: Neutral
Deity: Sylath, Dragon of Air and the Spirits of the Four Winds.
In addition, each Free City reveres its own patron saints and folkloric spirits, collectively called the City Fathers.
How it looks:
The Citadel lies on an open, weathered plain of dry yellow grass and low trees blowing slightly in the breeze, on a wide river's coast making its way to the great sea. A range of snow-capped mountains are seen in the distance, casting their ominous shadow over the plain's edge. The sky is afternoon blue, and clouds constantly form and break patterns above. Many cobblestone roads stretch across the plains, guiding caravans and rows of travellers into the massive walled city that is the Citadel town. The camera slides across the plains and enters the city through the main gate, through the streets and high above.
The Citadel itself is a gigantic metropolis, built in Byzantine style combining Greco-roman and Middle Eastern architecture.
It is surrounded by a sturdy wall (the only place where there is no wall are the docks) and divided into layers. The lower city is a giant, crowded marketplace, made up of narrow alleyways divided by flowing silk curtains (purple, red or blue), exotic caged animals and shops selling trinkets, spices and food. The clicking of coins and yelling of merchants is constant.
A network of wide bridges on pillars lead in and out of the lower wards and into the higher layers- which include luxurious buildings adorned with gems and gold, statues of ancient kings and the various City Fathers, squares, fountains and multiple towers which climb high into the sky, where the various Guild headquarters lie. Exotic birds of all types (such as colorful parrots) fly between the tower tops, and citizens constnatly make their way across the busy city- occasionaly forming and breaking gatherings in one of the squares.
Hero Types:
Merchant Prince: Masters of the various Guilds which run the Free Cities, Merchant Princes are ruthless, calculating and cunning- but also extremely committed to their Guild, King and City (in that order). Jacks-of-all-trades, they will use the various skills at their disposal to keep the roads open, the trade flowing and their pockets full, with an emphasis on Logistics, Enlightenment, Diplomacy and Scouting. All Merchnat Princes are humans, being the only Citadel race, and most are males.
Special Skill: Mercantile: Allows you get better prices at the Marketplace, Artifact Merchants and similar structures. Associated abilities allow you to deliver a poison attack to enemy units, freely mix units of different factions without a morale penalty, improve unit morale for Gold, get additional daily Gold income, emulate a single Racial skill (basic Level only, switching) after battling a hero possessing the skill or emulate a single Ability during combat and use Caravans for travel themselves (instead of simply delivering creatures or artifacts between towns).
Sorcerer: Sorcerers learn their mystic arts from all over Ashan, keeping an open mind and seeking to master all Lores equally.
Some say they are like modern Wizards, using their magic and knowledge to the benefit of their City and to earn profit instead of following some obscure Prophecy. They would learn anything, but rarely delve into the details. Their magical specialty is the Lore of Eternity's Road, giving them unrivalled ability to move around the adventure map. All Sorcerers are humans, with slightly more female members.
Special Skill: Eagle Eye: Gives Sorcerers a relatively large chance to temporarily learn spells cast by enemy heroes during combat. Higher-level spells are more difficult to learn, but spells of any Lore can be learned through Eagle Eye and are cast at the Sorcerer's mastery level or Basic level, whichever is higher. Associated abilities make Eagle Eye spells last for several days (eventually becoming permanent), regain Mana and Initiative when learning a spell during combat, scribe Spell Scrolls from their list of spells and instantly reflect enemy spells (in an empowered form) against their own units for the cost of Mana.
Playstyle, Strengths and Weaknesses:
Citadel buildings have average cost and require large amounts of Ore, Gems and Mercury on high-end buildings.
Citadel units generally have average to low stats (slightly more Attack oriented) and low morale. The sole exception to this is the Azure Dragon, the most powerful (and expensive) unit in the game. They also have the Wonderworker, possibly the most versatile unit in the game (a Teleporting, shooting caster). They have a good mixture of fast walkers, tanks, shooters and fliers, allowing them to adapt to the situation. Like the other human faction, the zealous Castle, Citadel combat is all about teamwork between their units and support through hero abilities and spells. In additon, they may also recruit mercenaries and are highly Diplomacy-oriented, splicing their ranks with troops of other factions. Their weaknesses include average to weak units, low morale, little affinity for support spells, no magic resistance for most units and the fact many of their abilities cost Gold- meaning a penniless Citadel is a non-functioning one.
Generally, it can be said they are adaptable and versatile, but lack specific strengths. Citadel are average besiegers but pretty good defenders, good sailors and have some of the best Logistics and economy in the game.
Citadel units generally have average costs and growth rates.
Common Buildings:
* Village Hall- Town Hall- City Hall- Capitol
* Fort- Citadel- Castle
* Tavern
* Blacksmith: Ammo Cart, First Aid Tent and Trebuchet
* Marketplace
* Resource Silo: Gold (+350 Gold per day)
* Mage Guild Level 5:
Major Lore: Eternity's Road
Minor: Cloud Philosophers, Genesis
Blocked: Grey Elders, Wild Groves
* Shipyard
Special Buildings:
Merchants' Guild: Artifacts Merchants and empowers Mercantile skill.
Sailors' Guild: Increases sea movement per each Guild built and randomly reveals portions of the sea map for a price.
Mystics' Guild: Sells Spell Scrolls and empowers Eagle Eye by 5%.
Mercenaries' Guild: Allows you to sell creatures and recruit creatures from up to 7 external dwellings (1 per each creature dwelling built in town).
City University: Teaches Basic Diplomacy, Enlightenment, Eternity's Road and Logistics for 2000 Gold each.
Brothel: 1st level Horde building.
Grail: Grand Bazaar: + 5000 Gold, increases town's creature growth by 50% and provides +3 of each Resource every day and +6 Attack and Knowledge during a siege.
Creatures:
1st level:
Mercenary- Man-at-Arms OR Captain
???- ??? OR ???
2nd level:
Arbalest- Musketeer OR Cannoneer
Nomad- Outrider OR Vagabond
3rd level:
Eunuch Warrior- Janissary OR Pure One
Hipogriff- Savage Hipogriff OR Northwind Hipogriff
4th level:
Gold Golem- Platinum Golem OR Gemstone Golem
Wonderworker- Enchanter OR Magician
5th level:
White Dragon- Blue Dragon- Azure Dragon
War Elephant- Armored Elephant- Siege Elephant
Opinions, please? Also, suggestions for the missing 1st level unit.
Next (and final) faction is the Elemental Conflux.
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Astral9
Tavern Dweller
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posted April 04, 2008 08:58 PM |
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Elephants? No angels or paladins? Hmmm very diffrent from other citadel towns, but maybe thats a good thing but still elephants?
The second level 1 unit maybe could be a duler, vagabond, flourist ( like the four musketeers) a good lawed adventurer who is excellent with a rapier or sword. The other stuff was good, but still kinda diffrent which maybe could be a problem for some.
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thehiddeneye
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 04, 2008 09:29 PM |
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The Castle and Citadel
The Citadel is a human town with a different theme than the Castle, which has the Paladins and the Angels (see Page 3).
It is a cosmpolitan, free and mercantile culture (with plotting and mysticism in the background) with a strong Middle-Eastern flavor (heavily inspired by the Ottoman Turkish Empire), unlike the overzealous and militant Castle (aka H5 Haven) which is strongly West European and inspired by Christianity. That's why it has Eunuch Warriors and War Elephants instead of Paladins and Angels- it's completely different themes and cultures, although both towns are human-centric factions. Also, Castle humans worship Elrath (Dragon of Light) while Citadel humans worship Sylath (Dragon of Air).
It's like the Spartans and Persians (another inspiration for the Citadel) from the movie 300, or the Crusaders and the Saracens from the real world.
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Orodruin
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 04, 2008 09:43 PM |
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i kinda like the idea of having war elephants in this faction of yours, reminds me of the persians. How big would the siege elephants be, as large as a mumakil of The Lord of The Rings?
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thehiddeneye
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 05, 2008 02:46 AM |
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War Elephants
War Elephants are around the size of Behemoths- somewhere between the size of Mumakil and normal elephants. If they were the size of Mumakil, it would look ridicolous to put them in a HOMM battlefield.
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thehiddeneye
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 05, 2008 02:14 PM |
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Symbols and Mottoes for Rampart and Citadel
Rampart
"We dance to the rhythm of the World"
* Aka: the Wood Elves, the Rainbow Courts
* Alignment: Good
* Deity: Sylanna, Dragon of Earth and the Powers of Nature
* Core Philosophy: "Our Harmony is bought with Our Blood and Sorrow" Besieged by vile enemies on all sides, including their treacherous Dark Elf brethren, the Wood Elves (and their Seelie Fey and Sylvan human allies) seek to maintain a pocket of harmony in a world of violence and war. Graceful, patient and respectful of all living beings, many view Wood Elves as naïve- although years of war have made them far from it. Their trust is gained easily- but once betrayed, their wrath is terrible. Due to their long lifespan Elves are also highly wise and educated, although their knowledge of the modern world is somehow limited and they generally distrust modern technology and unnatural magic. Elves hold their community in the highest regard, maintaining symbiotic relations with one another- they share literally anything, and greed is virtually unknown to them. The communities are ruled by the enigmatic Rainbow Courts which contain the oldest and wisest Rangers and Druids. An alliance of the major Courts forms the Kingdom of Irollan- although there are also un-aligned Rampart towns which seek their own brand of Harmony.
* Associated Colors: Green, brown, orange and silver (green flag)
* Key Symbol: "Nature's Mark"- an orange-brown "triskel" rune surrounded by leaves and feathers, on green background
* Native Terrain: Forest and Dolmen Fields (+1 Luck for Rampart creatures, -1 enemy Spellpower to a minimum of 1)
Citadel
"We keep the Trade flowing, and reap its Rewards"
* Aka: the Free Cities of the East, the Silken Councils
* Alignment: Neutral
* Deity: Sylath, Dragon of Air and the Spirits of the Four Winds. In addition, each Free City reveres its own patron saints and folkloric spirits, collectively called the City Fathers.
* Core Philosophy: "Absolute Freedom brings Ultimate Fortune"
An ancient yet advanced culture believed to be the cradle of Humanity, the Free Cities are built on the values of freedom and the empowerment of the Self- though not at all costs like the Dungeon and Inferno. The humans of the Free Cities are a cosmopolitan and learned culture adopting the best of others for their own good. Keep an open mind and try anything, because experience and trial is the sure way to success and living a full and fortunate life. They believe (at least declaring they believe) all men were born equal and are free to do as they will, but opportunity and fortune come only to those who seek them. The unfortunate and poor aren't bound to their status- but they must improve their lot through their own deeds. In the rich and mercantile Cities, Gold can buy literally anything, and is considred a sacred gift of Sylath to His Children. The Air Dragon Sylath is revered as the creator of Mankind who breathed Life unto their lifeless husks, and the Citadel humans follow His example and seek to literally reach the skies. Behind the airy light of the Cities hides a darker side- exploitation of the poor by the rich and powerful (such as the creation of the obedient Eunuch Warriors from poor children, despite the fact slavery is officialy outlawed), intricate plotting for Gold and power and dark mysticism as the means to power-but Citadel humans rarely mention this side of their culture. Although generally cosmpolitan and accepting of other cultures, the Free Cities are bitter enemies with the Orcs (who constantly raid their caravans and disrupt the trade passing through the Wastes), the Unicorn Empire (who view them as heretics) and the Dungeon faction (whose Banished race were originally Free Cities denizens).
* Associated Colors: Red, blue, purple and gold (yellow flag)
* Key Symbol: "The Lady of Trade"- a mature yet beautiful woman wearing silks holding peacock feathers in one hand and a bag of coins in the other, with a miniature Azure Dragon wrapped around her shapely body
* Native Terrain: Dry Plains and Bazaar (???)
Opinions?
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thehiddeneye
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 10, 2008 07:50 PM |
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This week...
Hi people. This weekend, I'm gonna post my final faction- the mysterious Elemental Conflux, maintained by the Planeswalker and Elementalist. Also, I'll post Combat Details and perhaps a Lore or two... In the meanwhile, I want more opinions about my exisitng ideas- more namely the Rampart and Citadel towns...
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del_diablo
Legendary Hero
Manifest
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posted April 11, 2008 07:12 PM |
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Sorry to say soo, but i only find the necromancer idea only partly good.
“Life is change, chaos, filth and pain. Death is peace, order, everlasting beauty.”
Fail, it should be: "Death is Salvation", "Asha uses all", etc......
Moral = stat = fail........ Moral as a stat would ruin the game imo, only buildt inn ability's or hero skills should affect it.
As for dungon, you do ALOT of overestimation. A medusa is tecnicaly the MOST dangours unit on the battlefield, should get its "killwhoring" ability from heroes 4 back along with the "Stone-Gaze"
A evil eye is inferior to a medusa, and you place it next to a great monster such as a Chimera?!?!? Shame on you......
"A darksome path leads on to Divinity. Only the worthy may walk it"
Eh? Being below earth got nothing with evil to do, soo FAIL!
Soo fortress become a 100% spiritual faction? That i find boring along with the set tactics whom will end up killing you if you do not got a beastmaster or witch to defend.
"Sheer numbers to defend" will end up granting it a weakness against a necropolis army due the aftermatch raiseing of dead units.
The unitset is partly boring.
And "Dragonfly Rider", get creativ man....... I don't think Dragonflyes are that big.....
"To protect the Swamp, we must become like the Swamp"
Again fail, they live in the swamp as theyr natural terrain yet it are ideal no matter what you think and why become the swamp when its your home allready? Philosofical fail.
Inferno in its first draft is chaotic, i think i can image the town(it would look 1337 exepct for floating over a void)......
As for having Angels around, why would they join the devil town? All angels got a personal hate against Devils, even fallen ones....
Soo why would they join? Against logic 
"Your world shall burn, and we will dance in its ashes"
Don't think soo Al........ its would be a nice slogan, but it got a failrate of 90%...... Tecnicaly they are the imperialists......
For tower, goles again but they suckzz......
the look is just a combination of a desert and a mountain with with snow on it buildt together and useing heroes 5 arcitecture.
And tecnicaly the games "Overexpensive" faction, no good <.< Too high cost = way too useless on majorety of maps.
Alchemist are overdoing it, the biggest innate in the suggestion.
Cat folk? Aiming at the Rakshasa? I find that a bit lame....
When did they get knigths either way? Knigths are european as far as i know, and this is the middle east with muslims and hindus.
"The path was set by the Ancients, but only the Wise may seek it and walk unscathed"
What about "Wisdom is everything", etc? I find antics and fate to be retarded if all are allowed to question it.
Siege machines:
* classic = ok
*Soul Engine = ruining Knowledge and several items, and ruining the "tradition mana way"
*Battle standard is justa fill-inn thinking about the hero/servant allready is carrying a banner.
*Battering ram = attacks only gate, a catapult is more than capabel of that
*siege tower is creative, i wonder how it would work hmm?
*Oil Cauldron......... actually uncreative, ruins the idea of killing the main gate for free entrance because the "walls" on a castle level town got a buildt in damager......
*Tre butchet..... its ok, but uncreative again <.<
Prison: from heros 4
The old Moats are not different at all, but they are a bit more rigged some of them.
Makeing different castles harder to siege/defend is ridiculess...... Because it is VERY likely to ruin massive parts of game balance.
The we flame the castle, Boar VS Peasant.......
A boar can even be a challange for a skilled hunter to kill, and a peasant armed with his weak not-suiting for a weapon poolarm is ALOT weaker than a boar......
When did griffins have nobles? H3 Royal Griffin was reffering to a griffin trained to figth and be perfectly breed to figth the war for the faction, unlike the more "wild" common griffin.
Gunslinger......... get real..... it sounds 1700-ish and americanish...
Angle vs Crusader........... holy divine creature VS a warrior that go on LONG raids to that benefit theyr faith..... Even blessed a priest is on a higher level........
"Put your trust in the Light, but ready your Blade"
Sound like a paranoia, if you want peace why you want to kill everything? Its ruining itself.........
Keep eh?
Golems again?! There was allready a golem <.<
All 3 things listed for the Yeti is exactly the same <.<
Rune Pristes ---> Valkyie(WTF?!)/Hearthmother........ what?! i thougth i missed someting..... a Rune Priest is a caster/ranger in current terms and goes on to a Offensive meele or a defensive caster? get real <.<
Where in the name of mythologi did you get the idea of a gorgon in this faction you obiusly base on northeren myths and legends? And Elder ------> Avatar is a deep overpowered trip....... aw nuts.....
"In the deepest of Shadows, Our Flame will burn bright"? Woot?
What about: "We shall forge the next age", etc? Hope it was not a attempt to fit the northeren myths?
For ye old orc faction:
*Why low moral? In my terms they are the brawler race, meaning they enjoy battle meaning a insane moral.....
*Nice building on the bloodrage, i think its here to stay!
*looks like a human leecher with the name: "pillager", a wildl caveman...
*Anyway, a Pao-Kai is like a uber hard creature to kill(play dark messiah, and you will know  ) and its set next to a chief whom is a very skilled orc warrior.... epic fail?
*For the ultiamte tier of this town, its a name killer in the name.... along with the bullsnow about cyclops hirarcy...
"An ancient Rage awakens, and Woe to all who stand in its Path"
???? Tecnicaly they was created for battle, what about "the ancestors is wise", "Belive fate", "The world is collapsing, we are the last line", etc.......... They belive in the dragons, they just do not like to pray...... They do not like slavery, the "indian" tribes tecnically beliving in "Mother Earth"
Dark elves:
*Stealth class hero? Would be imba in current map system(camp besides a lair and wait til its left alone)
*according to the belifes and stuff of the Necropolis and Asha are Spiders part of Necropolis........ The poison level in the kind of spiders is way too leethale to be ingame a tier 1 to be partly "giantspider realistic".
Rampart:
*ripped heroes 3 look
*Shapeshifting to Druids: "Get back to WoW dude", its afterall the place of the retarded idea.......... Druids should be nature and useing nature caring for it like an Ogier from WoT.......
*a giant mantis is a formidable foe, if it was on the size of a human it would easly killed a very skilled medival knigth or orc chieftan easly with the speed and steel-breaking arms and fangs.... why is it soo low in tier? Back in hereos 4 it was a top tier unit....
*its a deeper heroes 3 rampart with more random units and snowloda of upgrades.
The Citadel:
*heroes: creative
*boring neutral faction
* A 3RD GOLEM?! seriusly get real.........
* The picture speaks for itself:
Suggesting to get real......... alot of the stuff is ilogical, along with the lines of bad stuff and the fact it will enter the imbalanced timepoint of the Dark Messiah...... aka 666-guy from christian stuff?
That would ruin the game flow along with it.....
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Astral9
Tavern Dweller
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posted April 11, 2008 08:13 PM |
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Edited by Astral9 at 20:15, 11 Apr 2008.
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Okay that was qiute an opinion, but when did games become logical? This is a preson vision of a game, a vision or an idea don't have to have logic. Like this idea, I would take a grasshopper and magicaly make it legs uber powerful so it can jump upp in the sky and kill birds with it's new poision fangs, se no logic. But still it's you opinion and I respect that  , but still it's a vision/idea. And pleas don't write fail or get real so that much, okay ?
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B-E-T-A
Promising
Legendary Hero
Guess Who is Back?
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posted April 11, 2008 08:26 PM |
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Edited by B-E-T-A at 11:15, 13 Apr 2008.
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The Second Nuke Arrives!
Hello Thehiddeneye, My name is B-E-T-A, and i'm here to criticize your HoM&M6 suggestion. Now i hope that all the talk about how "good" you and your suggestion is, haven't gone to your head, and that you wont be angred by my critism(It's just friendly critism, and btw i must apologize for my bad grammar, but English ain't a language i learned at school).
Now For the Critism:
Even thou i have thinked pretty much the same as you, i have found pretty many flaws in the whole idea.
The first i will talk about is the creatures, now i see you have chosen to take the "Choise" of creatures from H4, and the alternative upgrades from H5. There is nothing wrong with that, but if you add that it's five(5) tiers of creatures and Twelve(12) Factions, then you simply overflow the game with creatures, and many of them dosen't even belong in the world of Might and Magic.
There is a reason to that it's just four(4) tiers in H4, it's because they run out of ideas for more creeps. And it seems you have also runned out, and then you started to reuse many ideas. Example: Angels and Devils in same faction...imagine this:
Devil: Here they come!
Fallen Angel: You just stay here, and let me take care of this.
Devil: No, i want a piece of the action as well!
Fallen Angel: Just stay here and Shut the Hell up, burning fool!
Devil: And that i hear from a guy wearing a dress!
Attacking Hero: Ehm...ain't you suppose to defend this city?
Fallen Angel: Just take it, i hate these guys anyway!
Devil: What did you say traitor? Of course we protect this city, now get down there and take care of these guys!
Fallen Angel: Want a piece of me Satanical Infidel?
Devil: Bring it on Traitor!
*The Devil and the Fallen Angel starts fighting*
Attacking Hero: ohh, Thank godness, if i would have had to fight those two i would have surely lost.
See my point? Angels and Devils have hated each other since they first entered the game in H3, and an alliance between them are impossible, even thou it is traitors.
Now i will talk about the creatures for each faction one by one, starting with the Necropolis.
Necropolis
Tier 1:
Zombie - The most useless Necropolis Unit, he is exactly what i excpeted. the ghoul was interesting thou, but this is where you start your Warcraft III ripoff. This guy(both name and ability's) sounds like the Warcraft 3 ghoul, with his weak, little, but fast body, and with an frenzy attack. You say everytime he kills a creature he gain more attack power, those that mean for each stack or each unit? And how long does it last? Mutant Zombie, ahh...H2 memories....you followed the old texture.
Skeleton - Well, it is as what one except, i got nothing bad to say about it, just that i like that he got a pike, and that the name "Legionaire" and the bowman is as in H5.
Tier 2:
Flesh Golem - Sounds like you ripped off Warcraft III, but when i hear the description i think "He took a creature from a horror movie/book and placed it in a game for Mythologi, this guy is retarded..." Also, the skills he got is unoriginal, it's just like a golem, just that it works for the undeads...in a way. Btw, it's better to call it "Abomination" instead of "Flesh Golem" as that's the real word for a thing made up from many corpses.
Ghost - H5 all the way, and that's not good, cause 50% is to imba for a tier 2(your h6)/3(h5) creature, and beside Phantom got the freaking heal/ressurection ability, and that's really a pain in the ass.
Tier 3:
Vampire - I can't complain now, can i?....Didn't think so either...
Mummy - It's good to see mummy's back in the necropolis, and they are pretty fair to, i can't find any flaws...Your Lucky with the tier 3, but just wait to tier 4, then it's gonna get painfull!
Tier 4:
Black Knight - it's okay, except for that the "choise" of upgrade is a joke, i mean, when the Cursed Knight got better stats, and it got an ability that's better then the Dread Knight's ability, it becomes kinda pointless....
Lich - Another okay unit, to the upgrade choise comes...Archlich > Power Lich, or, that depends on the spells you give archlich, and does it keep all the other ability's lich had? if so it's way better then just a death cloud that last 1 round.
Tier 5:
Bone Dragon - it starts off as a weak dragon, then it becomes a pain in the ass, and then it become a "Vampire Dragon" which you got no chance in hell to take down.
Wight - He is weak, but reduce effect of healing and ressurection spells, you do realise that raise dead is a "ressurection spell"? After getting upgraded he is still a weakling considering he is a tier 5 creature, as he got a chance of killing only 1 creature in the stack. The last upgrade now completely negate raise dead, but he himself, and what does "Hand of Death" do?
And while i'm at the Necropolis, why don't i finnish it up?
Heroes
Death Knight: Reduce enemies morale? That's okay enough, except for that you made Morale a stat, something that it shouldn't be, as then this skill would reduce a stat to a enemy hero. Just imagen, your about to take a necropolis city, but it got around 10 death knight that you MUST defeat before taking the city...how would your morale look like when you reach the city??? Btw the whole idea of Morale becoming a stat is madness!
Hymns sounds balanced, when you fight death knight, make the battle quick, or the hero can turn the tides of battle with Hymns.
Necromancer: You say that they're skill is the same as in H5, does that mean dark energy and all of that is the same? cause if it is, then Necromancery is imba and unbalanced, you can ressurect top tier creeps after combat pretty quick.
Now a fully upgraded Necropolis equals uninvadeable. All you need is all the defend under siege machines a good Death Knight and a good army, and you can't be beaten. Seriously, the - in morale building + death knights innate is overpowered against anything but another necropolis hero.
....I WAS gonna criticize the whole suggestion of yours, but then i see diablo has already posted and he said what i wanted to say about the rest, but here you got some undead critism.
Correction from diablo's post: There are four(4) golems(without upgrades) not 3.
Remember 11. April 2008, the day two nukes hitted your thread!
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thehiddeneye
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 18, 2008 05:30 PM |
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A response to the criticism part 1
Whoa, lotsa criticism here... Some I accept and find it refreshing, others- I don't (especially the use of the words "fail", "illogical" and "retarded")). And so
* Del Diablo's post:
The Necropolis motto is quoted directly from Heroes 5. I liked it, so I didn't change it.
Morale isn't a hero stat like attack, defense, spell power and knowledge. It is a creature stat like damage and Initiative.
It just means some creatures have higher default morale than others. For example- Angels and Cavalry naturally are alot more courageous than Peasants.
The Dungeon: I based the high level of Beholders on D&D, where they are one of the most feared and dangerous monsters. Even Might and Magic 6 had powerful Beholders, who were far more powerful than Medusa (who in my version don't have the H4 ability, but do have Stone Gaze). That's how I like it. The Dungeon motto- I always imagined Dungeon as ruthless beings who would do anything for power (Voldemort from Harry Potter is the classic example of a Warlock), and like the underground association with darkness, terror and madness.
Fortress: I thought the spiritual Voodoo turn is more interesting than a simple swamp town. The tactics are similar to the H3 Fortress tactics- if you've got numbers you don't have to worry about the relative weakness of your units, or need hero support- and Fortress unit abilities even the scales with stronger factions. About weakness against Necro- it's only natural some factions will be stronger against specific factions, and weaker against others...
The Dragonflies are slightly larger than H3 Dragonflies, and are ridden by midget Lizardmen (there are several different Lizardman breeds, each inpsired by a different real-world reptile).
The Fortress motto I also don't like much- suggestions for a better one?
Inferno:
I just like Fallen Angels, and think putting them next to Demons shows how truly despicable they are and how low they fell, to ally with their most hated enemies (which they still hate- evil allies with each other out of interest).
The Inferno motto is one of the strongest I've wrote, and I think of Demons as chaotic destroyers and corruptors rather than imperialists.
Tower:
The look is a combo of the best parts in the H3 and H5 Tower towns- an isolated desert valley at the feet of a foreboding mountain. You may not like it- but I like.
Tower were always an expensive faction, it's nothing new. This is one of their weaknesses to balance their multiple shooters and casters.
Catfolk are cool I think, but again- your opinion.
The Knights are Arabian-styled, and meant to be a more sophisticated and powerful form of Construct than the Golem.
The motto- think what you may...
Siege machines:
*Soul Engine - It only restores small amounts of spell points- enough to support you, not enough to turn the tides of battle. Also, it's quite vulnerable.
*Battle standard- suggestions for alternatives?
*Battering ram - so what?
*siege tower- the siege tower moves very slowly and has tons of HP and defense. Once you position it next to the moat, it may spend a turn open a bridge over the castle wall. Afterwards, your walkers may use the tower bridge to "skip" to the next side of the wall automatically as long as the tower stands.
* Oil Cauldron- I think it adds a strategic dimension- the gate is much easier to destroy now, but the cauldron does more damage than the moat. Will you wait until the walls go down and through the moat, or break through the gate and suffer damage from the Cauldron?
* Trebutchet- It's just a stronger main tower. I see nothing wrong with that...
Prison: from heros 4
The siege differences are simply meant to make the factions more varied- we've got game designers to make it balanced.
The Boar is one of the stronger and more expensive 1st level units (near equal to a 2nd level unit), while the Peasant is one of the weakest (but produces Gold). Voila, you can make your choice...
Noble Griffins fight for the Nobles of the Unicorn Empire...
Gunslingers- so what? Something more original than the generic champion or paladin...
Angel vs. Crusader again- an extremly powerful, extremely expensive flier which you can get very late in the game or a weak but cheap fast walker which you can get pretty early for a 5th level unit?
It depends on the map size and playstyle...
The motto shows the two sides of the Castle- piety alongside fanactisim.
Keep:
I like the many forms of Golems, like there are several forms of Dragons. So what?
Names for Yeti- accepted it, suggestions for better names?
My version of Valkyre is a lightning priestess, while Hearthmothers are fire priestesses. They are still shooters, but are faster and have slightly more offensive spells than Hearthmothers.
About the Gorgons in the Keep- I liked the ideas of massive iron bull-like Consturcts fueled by Arkath's fire as the ultimate Keep unit- it's Ashan mythology, not Norse mythology.
Elders are the stone-like forefathers of the Dwarves. Suggestions for names other than Avatars?
I like my motto, but yours is also good.
Stronghold:
Orcs are mortal creatures like humans, meaning their morale is easy to influence. However, once the Bloodrage takes over they become bloodthirsty brawlers who don't back from battle. So usually, they've got high morale due to Bloodrage.
The Mongrels are the wild, Orc-blooded human tribes of the Wastes, not cavemen. Imagine hillbillies or Mongols.
Pao-Kai were 6th level units in H5, so I put them at 4th level. If they are that powerful in Dark Messiah, they should be one of the more powerful 4th level units.
About the 5th tier- suggestions for other names?
The motto- again I like, but yours also aren't bad.
Dark elves:
* Cloaking will have balancers to prevent camping strategy. Suggestions include not being able to rest while cloaking (or not being able to use Cloaking for several turns afer resting), a constant mana drain or not being able to Cloak within a certain range of a town or some neutral buildings. I hope it will solve the camping problem.
* Yes, spiders are a Necro symbol, but they naturally inhabit the dark forest rather than the Necro graveyards. About the poison level-when did fantasy become realistic?
Rampart:
* The look was of-course heavily inspired by H3, but I think I gave it enough twists to differ it.
* Think what you like about Shifting, I think the idea makes the Rampart one of the more versatile armies.
* That's my version of the Mantis, and I like it as a 3rd level unit.
So what if it was a top-level unit in Heroes 4?
The Citadel:
* Like that you like the heroes.
* You think that the Citadel is boring- how to make it more intersting?
* So what if there is a 4th Golem? It means we have two 2nd level Golems, 1 3rd level Golem and 1 4th level Golem. If they are made of different materials and play differently, I don't care if they are all variations on the same creatures. If you hate many types of Golems, why don't you compalin about the various types of Dragons?
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thehiddeneye
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 18, 2008 05:46 PM |
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A response to the criticism part 2
And now, to B-E-T-A's post:
You talked about too many creatures- if they play differently, I see nothing wrong with variation and multiple creatures. No place in the world of Heroes- who decides that? We make the game, and we decided which creature belongs in Heroes and which doesn't.
I already said my opinion about Fallen Angels and Devils, and why they CAN be in the same faction.
Necropolis
Tier 1:
Zombie - The Ghoul as I described it wasn't invented by Warcraft III-all forms of fantasy describe Ghoul that way, including D&D and Warhammer. The Feeding Frenzy will have some sort of formula if they will use my suggestion- didn't give it much thought, but it will be balanced.
Tier 2:
Flesh Golem - Again, Warcraft III didn't invent Flesh Golems- they started with the book Frankenstein. Necropolis is a horrific and disgusting faction, I see nothing wrong with "horror movie" monsters. The Flesh Ripper was indeed inspired by Warcraft III Abomination, but is alot less hulking.
Ghost - The Ghost abilities are just numbers- if 50% miss chance is too much, reduce it to 33% or something. Also, the Phantoms raised by Mana Leech don't last after battle, they can be retaliated against and they must attack casters to heal themselves- they are much weaker and more limited than Vampires.
Tier 4:
Black Knight - Again, the suggestion is just a draft. But good criticism here.
Lich - OK, good points.
Tier 5:
Bone Dragon - This unit has powerful abilities, but is still kinda weak and vulnerable to damage- kill them quick, or they will kick your ass.
Wight - The Aura of Death doesn't affect Grey Elder magic- undead can still be raised normally around Wights (and perhaps even more efficiently). The upgrade allows the Wraith to kill several creatures, not just one- it works like H3's Mighty Gorgon's stare.
Hand of Death is like the H4 spell- kills a set number of units. It's a good spell to use against high-tier units.
Heroes
Death Knight: Again, I said Morale is a unit stat, not a heroic stat so it completely changes the view.
Necromancer: OK, so we should tweak with the numbers to make Dark Energy balanced.
Necro in siege- that's why you have other factions strengths against the Necro strengths. The Necro may got hordes of units with powerful abilities, but when they get shredded by Tower ranged attacks or Dungeon damage spells before the Death Knight can use Hymns (which are resisted by a Knight, Thane or Barbarian) it can even the odds.
Anyhow, I would like to hear more criticism to improvise on the weaker parts in my suggestions. Thnx, BETA and del diablo.
Next post is Conflux, BTW.
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B-E-T-A
Promising
Legendary Hero
Guess Who is Back?
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posted April 18, 2008 09:26 PM |
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Critising the Respons to the criticism
First of all, there was something i forgot to mention in my last post: I come from a place in my country where we swear every 10 sentence and when i quote what i said directly you will probaly see things like "this is snow!" or "You are a Retard" etc. It's not meant personally, it's just the way i speak...Ohh, and i got a habbit of ending sentence with "huh"
New Criticism
Yeah i talked about to many creatures, forget the "don't belong in HoM&M" i was thinking about the (good)old world(ahh....that was the days...before Ubisoft ruined it >.< well glad it was ubisoft and not EA). Now what i should rather say is "be a little more original about the choise of creatures" cause you reuses ideas. It's okay with Dragons and Golems, but when other creatures get repeative, it's starting to get annoying. Ohh, i mentioned "We think alike" with that i mean, i also though about compining the H5 & H4 creature system, and many of these things you came up with(rebellion in the dungeon, the 12 factions, etc.) i have also thinked about. I even created campaigns using these castle(i got three alternate Stories for H6 in my head. 1 continuing the H4 story, 1 continuing H5 story with these factions & 1 where both universes clash with these factions + more
Necropolis
Motto - So yours quoted directly from H5, huh. Well but in Dark Messiah they say "Asha rules/uses all"(can't remember if it's rules or uses)
Tier 1:
Zombie - Yeah, i forgot...
Tier 2:
Flesh Golem - Well, i don't like movies, cause then things get unoriginal, but seeing most of Necropolis is from movies, i guess it's okay. Btw Abomination wasen't invented by Warcraft III, it's an actual word for when someone is made up by many corpses.
Ghost - I didn't think about that.....
Tier 5:
Bone Dragon - A unit a smart enemy would attack first in other words. Sounds like dungeons blood maiden from H5, you know they go after her, so make a plan with that knowledge.
Wraith - High Tiers < Wraith < Low Tiers xD
Death Knight: could have said so earlier...
Necro Under Siege - okay...stop holding back infromation! Now I want a 10 pages letter which explains your H6 suggestion to the fullest xD Better start writing it 
Dungeon
Beholders - In msot M&M games(both normal and heroes) they are inferior to the Medusa, but in M&M6 they are more or less equals and it's more of a point of view, and i find the Medusas worse. Btw who said that old Dungeon creatures like harpies and Troglodytes existed in Ashan, but then again, who said they didn't...
About Dungeon being Evil - In old world they where "Neutral", but they where evil. In the history of Ashan, Dark Elfs and the creatures of Dungeon are just as Evil as the orcs.
Fortress
*Agrees with Thehiddeneye* Spiritual Town > Swamp Town.
Dragonflies - This is Ashan, not the old world...saddly...so the dragonflies can be more huge, and i also think they should be, i mean cmon DRAGONflies.
Motto - No idea. mabye something about the Water Elemental dragon.
Inferno
Fallen Angels - Actual, now that i read through the bible(again...) i see something, "Fallen Angels" is actually another way to say "Demon", cause we all know(i think) that THE devil Satan was Lucifer, the greatest of all angels and Gods right hand man, but he got jealous on the humans and wanted to kill all humans, therefore God inrisoned him and his followers(other angels) inside hell. And all angels who would abandon their missions would end up as demons in hell. So Fallen Angel ain't so bad, so technically all Inferno units are "Fallen Angels". Strange...
Motto - They are NOT imperialists in Ashan, but in our world they are. Read the Mythlogi and the history of Ashan and you will see that these demons just want to destory the world Something the Dark Messiah is destined to do.
Tower
Location - WRONG! It ain't a "compination" between H5 and H3, cause in H5 they are floating in the air, and the Wizard cities of Ashan is floating in the air, so they wont walk on land. Only their trops are dessert like.
Catfolk - As said earlier, i would reather have it being the Academy Jewel of H5. Besides the whole idea of "Catfolk" is so overused...
Knights - Arabians din't have "knights" they fought against the knights(Europians). But with Arabian styled you mean they got Arabian Armour and stuff? That's okay, just don't use the word "kngiht" cause sounds bad.
Motto - "Wisdom is everything" is bad...like the one Thehiddeneye made better, but i still think it is bad.
Seige Machines
I couldn't care less...
Haven
Noble Griffins - That ain't good enough reason to call them Noble Griffin. But who said Griffins didn't have Nobles?
Gunslinger - Gunslinger > Crusader. They should change places, btw in the "Guns in H6" Thread clearly says "NO"
Keep
Valkyre - What diablo is trying to say is "The Name don't fit with the unit". A Valkyre is a Female Warrior, in other words and Amasone, and the people which makes the Oigin of the name actually despited magic more then anything and didn't want anything with it to do, so you got a name and a unit which are quit opposite of each other.
"it's Ashan mythology, not Norse mythology." What does it's Valkyre have to do with Ashan Mythology? They are never mentioned in Ashan Mythology, and btw it's been a habbit in the Heroes of Might and Magic series to use the names on things/people that actually resembles the things/people they originate from.
Stronghold
Quote:
Orcs are mortal creatures like humans, meaning their morale is easy to influence. However, once the Bloodrage takes over they become bloodthirsty brawlers who don't back from battle.
Where did you find that information? or that mere specualtions?
Quote:
wild, Orc-blooded human tribes
In other words an orc, like any other...read the history, orcs are half-human half-demons.
Pao-Kai - They are second best unit in H5 so was Wraith in Necropolis, still you sat it in Tier 5 with Bone Dragon, why not do it with Pao-Kai as well? An specialy since they where "That" powerfull in Dark Messiah.
Coven
Name - i Rather call it "Coalition" sounds much better
Rest - don't care, Dark elfs was an epic fail
Rampart
*Is leader of I-hate-elfs club* thing that explains a bit.
Citadel
Nothing to respond on...
Btw Thehiddeneye, nice work on respons, i got even more respect for you then i did before. I like this idea more then any of the others to H6(cause it's so much alike my own), therefore i chose to critise this one, cause then i could help you work it out and hopefully this one gets chosen. Btw, i will start going more deeper in each faction and critise them just as good as i critised Necropolis.
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thehiddeneye
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 18, 2008 11:31 PM |
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My Response Part 3
OK, here's the third part, the repsonse to the last post.
New Criticism
About reusing ideas- you mean stuff like Unicorn/Nightmare/Phooka?
Or Griffin/Hipogriff? I think with different abilities and stats even similar-looking units can play quite differently.
Necropolis
Necro Under Siege - slowly, dude... I will post the pieces, but posting ALL my ideas (actually coming up with them) will take a few MONTHS. It's just an idea draft. But if you've got specific questions, ask freely.
Inferno
Yeah, but in my version Devils are the most powerful beings of pure Chaos, while Fallen Angels are corrupted beings- creatures of Light (Elrath) tempted by Chaos (Urgash). They also play differently, with the Devil being a combat brute (with the dangerous ability to Teleport around, but low Initiative for a 5th level unit) while the Fallen Angel being quicker, more vulnerable and more special ability based (for example, they can Sacrifice to raise Demonic units).
Tower
Location - OK, got it- got an alternative vision, since I don't want to reuse H5 Tower? I kinda like my version BTW, but offer an alternative...
Catfolk - Accepted, but STILL I like and think cats fit the whole "wisdom" theme. The Rakasha as powerful spirits should be the lost jewel of H5- the Hollow Knights (or whatever we call them now) fill their role as the Tower tank unit (which previously belonged to the Naga, who are now a Fortress unit).
Knights - Alternative names?
Motto- suggest a new one...
Haven
Noble Griffins - OK, Imperial Griffin returns...
Gunslinger - For Heroes continuity sake, I want to keep Crusaders as a top-level unit. BTW- Gunslingers play similar to Cavalry, with slightly lower armor but gain FEW short-range, armor-piercing shots to weaken their enemies before they close the charge. And I support few guns in H6, in two units- the Citadel Arbalest and the Castle Gunslinger.
Keep
Valkyre - renamed Lightning Maiden?
Stronghold
It's my speculations and expansion on H5 version of Orcs.
The Orc-blood human tribes can easily pass for regular humans (unlike the inhuman, sometimes Demonic-looking Orcs), but got some Orc ancestry- which means they also got the Bloodrage. And I see Orcs
as a full-fledged race which long ago evolved past their original half-human, half-Demon ancestry.
I put Pao-Kai at 4th level because I think Behemoths deserve nothing less than 5th tier (being perhaps the most powerful melee walkers in the game) and I wanted to give Stronghold a 5th level shooter (the Cyclops). Pao-Kai fill the place of H3 Rocs, the sole Stronghold flier. They are vastly more powerful than Chiefs, but more costly and Chiefs got unit-supporting abilities which boost other Orcs (while Pao-Kai aren't even affected by Bloodrage).
Coven
Coalition doesn't fit them. Coven (or Covey) describes their witchcraft/dark forest themes much better.
Rampart
OK, hate Elves as you like...
More?
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B-E-T-A
Promising
Legendary Hero
Guess Who is Back?
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posted April 19, 2008 11:52 AM |
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Respons
About reusing ideas - Yeah i meant that, but your right, diffrent abilities and skills makes it good enough.
Tower
Name - i find the name "Academy" more fitting to the world of Ashan.
Location - What if we keep your dessert vally, but make it so some buildings like city hall & Mage Guild floats in the air like the city in H5 did? I see it like this:
Desert vally, up in the sky we see a floating building which looks like the town Academy in H5, and this is the city hall, and some buildings like Mage Guild, get builded on it.
Catfolk - How does they fit the wisdom theme? For replacement, what about Nomads? They are arabian like and they got sandwalker ability, and they aren't much stronger then a tier 2 unit.
Knights - I must read some of the Arabian books first.
Motto - We keep your for now, cause i can't find a better one right now, give me time and i come back to it.
Haven
Gunslinger & Crusader - Cmo, Crusader got demoted to tier 4(Swordsman upgrade) unit in heroes 3, he got surpassed by the Champion and the cavalier. You can't "keep" them as top tier seeing as they got demoted long ago.
Keep
Lightning Maiden - okay for now, still, something sounds wrong with it, but we use it to we or someone else finds something better.
Coven
Name - dunno what Coven and Coalition means, just thoguh Coalition sounded better(and somethime back in RL diablo called them a coalition...), but hey, your choise not mine.
Citadel
Tier 1 - I see you miss a tier 1 unit, what about having Rouges in the citadel?
Neutral Creatures
So you don't want to use them eh? Well, even thou you don't suggest them, i hope that Ubisoft(if they accept this idea) will add some just for fun.
Next i will start critising your towns one(1) by one(1), as i did with Necropolis
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Astral9
Tavern Dweller
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posted April 19, 2008 12:39 PM |
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Keep
Lightning Maiden - okay for now, still, something sounds wrong with it, but we use it to we or someone else finds something better.
I took the time to read a little about Valkyrie's, I think the should be a spell or rune that ressurects the most powerful unit on the battlefield ( when the creature is compleatly dead), cause the Valkyrie duty is to take the most heroic fighters to vallhall and make them warriors for Odin. And since the dwarfs in h5 snowship a god of fire ( I am right or have I got it all wrong?) the could be called misstres of fire, they are warriores from there god who looks like humans and are very beautiful but they are not aware of it. You can seens the heat oozing from them and the often ride on horses but the have eight legs( like odins sleipner) and their hoves are burning and you barley see their legs in the fire.
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