|
|
Ecoris
Promising
Supreme Hero
|
posted February 20, 2009 11:10 PM |
|
Edited by Ecoris at 23:11, 20 Feb 2009.
|
Grim Poppet costs seven mana. That's a lot. And you need to draw (and play) two of them. Odds are that those two poppets could win the game by themselves without the need of another card.
Good combos are reliable and difficult to disrupt. Since most decks run some form of creature removal most good combo decks con't rely on creatures. (Just think of all the storm deck variants that have been played in various formats). Some exceptions are:
Elves in extended: The deck is prone to disruption but can be very fast and can therefore win before the opponent gets any chance to put up a defense. Furthermore, it can easily transform and adopt a beatdown strategy.
UW reveillark (time spiral + lorwyn standard): It played like a control deck and packed a sick amount of synergy. In addition, (nearly) all the cards did something by themselves (unlike many other combo decks). You did by no means need to combo out to win. You could simply drown your opponent in a huge amount of card advantage, steal his creatures and control the board in general.
Project X was somewhat similar; it was a deck with a lot of good cards that stretched itself a little to add a strong combo, none of the cards it played did nothing by themselves.
When a storm deck makes 12 1/1 goblins turn one or two it puts you under a great deal of pressure since it gives you very little time to find an answer and most likely you were not given time to follow your own game plan.
At the time you get down two Grim Poppets and a Flourishing defenses your opponent has had all the time in the world to execute his game plan.
For seven mana you could have played Cruel Ultimatum. It's no wonder that Grim Poppet has seen play only in ramp dekcs and in the sideboard of tron decks.
____________
|
|
Lord_Woock
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Daddy Cool with a $90 smile
|
|
posted February 20, 2009 11:32 PM |
|
|
Quote:
@Woock - Then what defines a good combo?
One that you can pull off early and consistently.
____________
Yolk and God bless.
---
My buddy's doing a webcomic and would certainly appreciate it if you checked it out!
|
|
sith_of_ziost
Promising
Supreme Hero
Scouting the Multiverse
|
|
posted February 21, 2009 04:41 AM |
|
|
@Woock- That's where our opinions differ. I believe a deck that tries to win early loses gas should the plan fail. Most combos rely on a single element to tie the rest together; without that card, it falls apart. But, I see these things because all of my decks run counter, so I guess that's just difference of opinion. But, good is too relative a term.
@Ecoris - Of course, if its a side combo, it would need to be cheap. But if its an infinite, its usually takes two or three cards a chunk of mana. The total cost for Poppet Defenses is 19, but the morselhoarder combo costs 12, only a Poppet less. But, I'm not saying mana cost is irrelavent, i'm just saying its not the primary focus.
@Gnu - In sanctioned play, normally a player doesn't have the divinity of gettting exactly what they want every time. Sure, they fetch it, but they don't will it into a quick death. And do I sense a feeling of personal experience with the infite mill and burn combos
My view is that turn one kill combos are dying off. Rarely does an expert play solely for speed and strictly as a job, but usually that play for the thrill of the game. They play because the combos that take some setting up give them a bigger satisfaction than the one's that just kill off an opponent quickly. And they enjoy the wrench's thrown into their plan, so they can see which crowbar pulls it out. Plainly said, spontaneity is the thrill of the game.
However, if you wanted cheap, easy combos, I'm sure a quick stroll through any one of the Magic sites on the web can help you. My personal favorite is the folks over at MDV. I've gotten a lot of combos off of that. Also, Kelly Digges and BDM usually slip out some combos off their articles, and Flores shows the pro decks that have good synergy. Take some time to read through some of that stuff, its worthwhile, I've gotta tell you.
Anyway, I've been wanting to put together a deck that feature's an Alt Kill combo.
 Sent to Opponent through 
Follow that with 
Boom, no Graves, no opponent. Any suggestions for some base creatures?
|
|
Disturbed-Gnu
Supreme Hero
Pro Bacon Vodka Brewer
|
|
posted February 21, 2009 11:08 AM |
|
|
Great combo! I'd never seen that kind of combo before! effective!
And for base creatures.. Hmm, as the cost is black/blue i suggest a cheap monster with a good ability to get out fast! Tidehollow strix..
But for some key cards i suggest: Blowfly Infestation, Crumbling Ashes and a some cards that is ble to put -1/-1 counters on others.. Like scar, skeleton ship and such!
I have builded a deck like yours, and sold it to a friend! It works good! especially with your combo ;p
EDIT
I got my two boosters today!
I got the Worldheart Phoenix, and the Maelstrom Archangel wooohoooo!
That is awesome! Especialy the angel!
|
|
mamgaeater
Legendary Hero
Shroud, Flying, Trample, Haste
|
|
posted February 21, 2009 03:43 PM |
|
|
0.0 lucky, you got the one of the cards sith wanted and one of the cards i wanted!
____________
Protection From Everything.
dota
|
|
Ecoris
Promising
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted February 21, 2009 08:38 PM |
|
Edited by Ecoris at 20:39, 21 Feb 2009.
|
Quote:
@Ecoris - Of course, if its a side combo, it would need to be cheap. But if its an infinite, its usually takes two or three cards a chunk of mana. The total cost for Poppet Defenses is 19, but the morselhoarder combo costs 12, only a Poppet less. But, I'm not saying mana cost is irrelavent, i'm just saying its not the primary focus.
The combos in elves, lark and project x can't be referred to as side combos.
Quote:
My view is that turn one kill combos are dying off.
No one has spoken of turn one kills.
Quote:
Rarely does an expert play solely for speed and strictly as a job, but usually that play for the thrill of the game. They play because the combos that take some setting up give them a bigger satisfaction than the one's that just kill off an opponent quickly. And they enjoy the wrench's thrown into their plan, so they can see which crowbar pulls it out. Plainly said, spontaneity is the thrill of the game.
Casual players may think like that. Spikes play to win. I'm not saying that they play just to win. But playing with a sub-optimal deck is frustrating and un-fun.
If you have two Grim Poppets in play you are already winning. Why do you need Flourishing Defenses? (In addition Quillspike + Devoted Druid is a better enabler than double Poppet).
Quote:
Sent to Opponent through
Follow that with
Boom, no Graves, no opponent. Any suggestions for some base creatures?
That's a hideous combo. You need to play Puca's Mischief and then Immortail Coil (since you probably can't play them the same turn). Then you have to wait an entire turn for your next upkeep. Your opponent has every chance to kill you in the meantime.
____________
|
|
Lord_Woock
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Daddy Cool with a $90 smile
|
|
posted February 21, 2009 09:21 PM |
|
|
Quote:
That's a hideous combo. You need to play Puca's Mischief and then Immortail Coil (since you probably can't play them the same turn). Then you have to wait an entire turn for your next upkeep. Your opponent has every chance to kill you in the meantime.
Including, ironically, popping a Relic of Progenitus or Tormod's Crypt.
____________
Yolk and God bless.
---
My buddy's doing a webcomic and would certainly appreciate it if you checked it out!
|
|
sith_of_ziost
Promising
Supreme Hero
Scouting the Multiverse
|
|
posted February 21, 2009 09:53 PM |
|
|
It is not a hideous combo. I stand by that.
If you build a deck based around graveyard manipulation (not like the Golgari, but like a Reanimation deck). Plus, if you don't have the Mischief, you can sit safely behind the Coil, maybe make it a Blue/Black/White deck, for some Marks of Asylum to stave off burn, and maybe some other great lockdown. Hmm...this may take some doing, but please, if you'd like to give me a suggestion, by all means, do so, but please don't attack my ideas. If I do, I don't mean too. We're all friends here. (which fits with the x-men marathon i'm running right now).
|
|
Lord_Woock
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Daddy Cool with a $90 smile
|
|
posted February 21, 2009 10:41 PM |
|
|
Quote:
sit safely behind the Coil
Umm, what?
____________
Yolk and God bless.
---
My buddy's doing a webcomic and would certainly appreciate it if you checked it out!
|
|
sith_of_ziost
Promising
Supreme Hero
Scouting the Multiverse
|
|
posted February 21, 2009 11:37 PM |
|
|
|
Ya know, the immortality from the coil? Against another blue deck, you're virtually indestructible. Black sort of, but Red and White you have to watch because of Red's Aggro and White's Disenchanters. But, that's where the marks of Asylum come into the picture, and maybe some-kind of shroud giver, idk. But, its not like my creatures wouldn't exist, i'd probably have Vectis Agents or Maybe a Tidehollow strix or two. Some deadly blockers. Plus much countermagic and lots of lockdown.
|
|
Ecoris
Promising
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted February 22, 2009 03:59 PM |
|
Edited by Ecoris at 16:00, 22 Feb 2009.
|
How can you think that Immortail Coil protects you? If you play it with X cards in your graveayrd your life total basically becomes X. Unless your life total is very low then you play Immortain Coil you are probably going to "lose" life this way.
Since nearly all decks aim to win by lowering their opponent's life total to 0 or less you are doing your opponent a favor.
And I don't see what you want Mark of Asylum for. It just protects your creatures from burn and such. I guess those creatures are then meant to protect you?
We're not attacking your ideas. We are criticizing them. My suggestion is: Find another combo, this one is really bad. If you don't believe this, try it out. But in that case I would advise you to play a card that allows you to sacrifice the Coil (Etherium Astrolabe seems to be the only one in standard). That way you can "mess" with your life total. It would also be good if you could reliable get a lot of cards in your graveyard. Ponder, fetchlands, other cheap cantrips and such, chromatic star. Tezzeret would also be good if you have him.
____________
|
|
Disturbed-Gnu
Supreme Hero
Pro Bacon Vodka Brewer
|
|
posted February 22, 2009 04:22 PM |
|
|
|
I think sith's combo works as it should! i mean, if the obliterate, Worldgorger Dragon is known for being great combo
|
|
sith_of_ziost
Promising
Supreme Hero
Scouting the Multiverse
|
|
posted February 22, 2009 07:54 PM |
|
|
Fine by me. I'm too old to care about other peoples vantage points.
Now, if you're telling me to warp my love of the game, your trying for a moot point. I play the game to have fun. I don't care to have the most efficient combos. But, If I like one, why not try to help me to have a good, efficient deck. Not try to kill the idea. Reiforce a weak building. Just don't knock it down.
|
|
Lord_Woock
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Daddy Cool with a $90 smile
|
|
posted February 22, 2009 08:36 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Now, if you're telling me to warp my love of the game, your trying for a moot point.
I'm attempting no such thing! The more people enjoy this game, the better!
Quote:
I play the game to have fun. I don't care to have the most efficient combos.
Good for you. I don't care if my casual decks are tournament caliber either.
Quote:
But, If I like one, why not try to help me to have a good, efficient deck.
But that's the thing! You want to build an efficient deck around an inefficient combo, which is undoable!
On the other hand, should you provide some information on your casual metagame, I can try and think of something to help you steal some wins with your lulzy combos.
____________
Yolk and God bless.
---
My buddy's doing a webcomic and would certainly appreciate it if you checked it out!
|
|
sith_of_ziost
Promising
Supreme Hero
Scouting the Multiverse
|
|
posted February 22, 2009 11:27 PM |
|
|
This was a test, and you all passed quite adequately.
You see, I have a knack for seeing into peoples personalities by sampling their attitudes. Now, back to the subject at hand.
Indeed, the combo is not workable with any degree of success. However, I would like to investigate the possibilities and routes that a Puca's Mischeif deck could take.
|
|
pinkman11
Hired Hero
|
|
posted February 23, 2009 03:06 PM |
|
|
|
I opend a conflux pack..and i got Nicol Bolas, planes walker!
|
|
Disturbed-Gnu
Supreme Hero
Pro Bacon Vodka Brewer
|
|
posted February 23, 2009 04:55 PM |
|
|
|
Maan your lucky pinkman!! He is too expensive to buy! over 20$
|
|
Lord_Woock
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Daddy Cool with a $90 smile
|
|
posted February 23, 2009 06:42 PM |
|
|
Wow, WotC just keeps on surprising!
Hey people, what's your take on the new Core Sets?
For one thing, I expect it'll be confusing to see Tenth Edition followed by M10 
Also, I wonder what exactly they're doing with the new cards thing. They could be milking tournament players real bad.
____________
Yolk and God bless.
---
My buddy's doing a webcomic and would certainly appreciate it if you checked it out!
|
|
mamgaeater
Legendary Hero
Shroud, Flying, Trample, Haste
|
|
posted February 23, 2009 08:38 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Wow, WotC just keeps on surprising!
Hey people, what's your take on the new Core Sets?
For one thing, I expect it'll be confusing to see Tenth Edition followed by M10
Also, I wonder what exactly they're doing with the new cards thing. They could be milking tournament players real bad.
what is happening?
i heard that they were going to cut the begginers jank though. as most beginners pick up the newest set anyway.
____________
Protection From Everything.
dota
|
|
Lord_Woock
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Daddy Cool with a $90 smile
|
|
posted February 23, 2009 08:47 PM |
|
|
You can read all about it here. There are also a few previews in another article on the official site.
____________
Yolk and God bless.
---
My buddy's doing a webcomic and would certainly appreciate it if you checked it out!
|
|
|
|
This thread is pages long: 
