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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted April 14, 2009 12:49 PM |
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Lol I was playing when 'Thalad Salads' and Jujitsu (mostly blue) decks were all the rage. Just curious about some cards and if they have been banned or not.
Feldon's Cane. Put down and used after Wrath of god and it was a harsh combo. Cheap enough that you could keep enough mana back for it also.
Black Lotus (by proxie, cause no way I'd put the real one in a deck). 3 mana of any color, yes please.
Pestilence. Yeah a lot of the white cards had protection from black, but could cut down a large weenie army for about 3 black mana.
Lure - A really really good antiweenie card when combined with cockatrice or basilisk. Forces all creatures to attack..you loose your creature, but it destroys all the attackers..just regenerate your creature (if you even need to) and thrash.
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Message received.
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Lord_Woock
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Daddy Cool with a $90 smile
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posted April 14, 2009 01:47 PM |
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Frankly, I don't see the awesome in Feldon's Cane + Wrath of God, or any other board sweeper for that matter. Feldon's Cane seems more like so-so anti-milling tech.
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Yolk and God bless.
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My buddy's doing a webcomic and would certainly appreciate it if you checked it out!
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Ecoris
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted April 14, 2009 03:00 PM |
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Edited by Ecoris at 15:02, 14 Apr 2009.
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Quote:
Plus sealed tournament suck balls anyway. It's all about getting lucky and getting the best cards in the set. Draft on the other hand requires a lot of skill. You need to judge cards correctly, figure out what colors the other players are going and finally work well with the other people at the table so you can stick to 1 or 2 colors as your base.
I think you overestimate the luck factor in sealed tournaments. Drafting is more skill intensive, no doubt about that, but good card evaluation and deck construction skills are still needed. At prerelease tournaments card evaluation is even more difficult since you haven't played with the cards before and you have only known their wording for a short amount of time. In other words you have no experience with the new cards and may very well over/understimate some of them. This is not so relevant this time since a large part of the sealed pool consists of cards from Shards and Conflux.
Sometimes your deck builds itself, sometimes you will have to make tough decisions about what colors to play. But the same can be said about drafting.
I agree that luck is a greater factor in sealed deck tournaments, but not as great as you seem to think.
@RTI
No one forces you to read the unofficial spoilers. At a prerelease you may be at a disadvantage compared to people who do, since they have had more time to familiarize themselves with the new cards, but this disadvantage is very small. At this point the official visual spoiler contains 17 cards while the unofficial ones know 5 more cards.
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sith_of_ziost
Promising
Supreme Hero
Scouting the Multiverse
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posted April 14, 2009 04:49 PM |
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Quote:
good card evaluation and deck construction skills are still needed
Like in any facet of the game, not solely in draft. Whereas in Draft, its taking the normal process in plain construction and throwing in a whole realm of luck
I don't like draft just because your only guaranteed one card you want, and the rest depends on what your opponents want. And once you choose a card, that basically becomes what the rest of your deck depends on, regardless of what you get for the rest of the draft. Just too many uncontrollable variables for me. Sure, you can get lucky and steal a Mythic awesome or a Rare cool, but not very often do those odds play to your favor.
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Steel Yourself for War
Next Set: Mirrodin
Beseiged
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RedSoxFan3
Admirable
Legendary Hero
Fan of Red Sox
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posted April 14, 2009 07:24 PM |
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Actually if you talk to anyone who plays draft professionally, they will tell you that draft is all about working with the players next to each other.
If you are good, and you realize that the person to your right is going to pass you all the good blue cards, then you draft blue. The point is that you want to work with the people next to you, so you have all the good cards of one color and they have all the good cards of another color. But you have to be able to read what they are drafting.
It's more than just card evaluation. That is the beginning of draft. There are lots of people who can evaluate cards correctly, but one thing most people can't do is be able to tell what colors all the players are drafting. This requires a lot of skill and a lot of practice.
One of things you have to do is feed the player next to you. If you are going red/green with a splash of black, you want to make sure you pass all the good white and blue cards to the guy next to you. If he is smart he'll realize that you aren't going to give him any good red or green cards, and so you need to realize quickly, hopefully in the first pack, what cards you are going to see and then draft the colors that he is passing you. Then the second thing you need to do is make sure you send out strong signals.
Suppose that that you are going red/green and you see an infest and a algae gharial in a pack. You should probably pass the infest and take the algae gharial even though infest is a bomb. That way you are sure that the person next to you is going black. If you take infest and pass branching bolt, you'll be sending out mixed signals and start fighting over the same colors, thus drafting a terrible deck.
There is far more skill in drafting then in sealed. Yes I'll agree that sealed deck involves good deck building, card evaluation, and finally playing well, but drafting also requires skill far beyond that of sealed. Anyone can be good at sealed. But fewer people can be good at draft.
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Go Red Sox!
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Disturbed-Gnu
Supreme Hero
Pro Bacon Vodka Brewer
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posted April 18, 2009 01:36 PM |
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Alara Reborn seems to have some kickass cards!
The Lich Lord of Unx looks like a pretty cool card in a Zombie deck..
Nemesis of Reason looks like a great card in draining library decks!
Meddling Mage is the new way to stop overpowered spells!
Time Sieve is great in artifact decks.. Just get cheap or free crap artifacts out on the field, or use this as a way to finish the game
Lightning Reaver is gold in a deck based on charge counters
Knight of New Alara is nice. especially together with progenitus
Sen Triplets is just evil
Sphinx of the Steel Wind is a good creature to have
Thraximundar is awesome
Lavalanche is the new version of Blaze/Demonfire and Banefire
Jenara, Asura of War is a good way to get a strong creature
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sith_of_ziost
Promising
Supreme Hero
Scouting the Multiverse
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posted April 19, 2009 02:46 AM |
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Sen Triplets is just evil
Indeed they are.  I'm waiting for the card art. Combine it with cards that build the mana base and give you're opponent extra turns, you can completely devastate them.
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Sphinx of the Steel Wind is a good creature to have
Akroma is angry. 
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Thraximundar is awesome
I kinda expected more for Thraxy. The roaming abomination of Grixis, its very flavorful, but its only good in Archdemon decks or Aggro away decks that in end splat (Fatal Frenzy).
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Meddling Mage is the new way to stop overpowered spells!
Progenitus will want this to die. So will Nicol Bolas and every other game finisher if you're deck's an archetype.
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The Lich Lord of Unx looks like a pretty cool card in a Zombie deck..
First of all, the art is amazing. He looks positively Lichy and Unxy, and he has the regality to be a Lord.
His first ability's cool enough, especially when you can sack the token or Minion Reflector it.
Of course, the last ability's the finisher. If you can die from being just worn out, then the first part will catch you. If you're healthy but just out of ideas (cards), then you still lose. Its very evil.
The best part - Its not legendary! Sure, he's a little frail, but that can be made up by Blacks reanimator cards.
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Steel Yourself for War
Next Set: Mirrodin
Beseiged
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Disturbed-Gnu
Supreme Hero
Pro Bacon Vodka Brewer
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posted April 19, 2009 12:40 PM |
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Quote:
Akroma is angry.
And the reason for that is good hehe.
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I kinda expected more for Thraxy. The roaming abomination of Grixis, its very flavorful, but its only good in Archdemon decks or Aggro away decks that in end splat (Fatal Frenzy).
Well, i still think he is great! Your opponent is forced to sac a creatre, and if you have spells that gives you another attack face and so on.
But you mention the Aggro! I have seen the word tons of times, but i still can't figure out what it means! (Google didn't help me)
Quote:
First of all, the art is amazing. He looks positively Lichy and Unxy, and he has the regality to be a Lord.
His first ability's cool enough, especially when you can sack the token or Minion Reflector it.
Of course, the last ability's the finisher. If you can die from being just worn out, then the first part will catch you. If you're healthy but just out of ideas (cards), then you still lose. Its very evil.
The best part - Its not legendary! Sure, he's a little frail, but that can be made up by Blacks reanimator cards.
The art is very cool indeed yes. Wellmade card.
And yes, making zombies is good enough, cuz you don't whanna attack with himself. But his second ability is a total kickass.
Fisrt you play Zombie Infestation and discards as many creature cards you can to get zombies, then in the next round or the same turn you play Midnight Ritual to remove them and get even more zombies.
Death Baron is a good way to make your zombies stronger.
Call to the Grave is just nasty in a zombie deck.
And there is possible much much more great zombie cards out there!
EDIT: Tombstone Stairwell can be used i think, but how to get the best out of it i don't know!
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RedSoxFan3
Admirable
Legendary Hero
Fan of Red Sox
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posted April 19, 2009 02:36 PM |
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Anyone have a link to see the previewed cards?
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Go Red Sox!
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Ecoris
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted April 19, 2009 05:19 PM |
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sith_of_ziost
Promising
Supreme Hero
Scouting the Multiverse
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posted April 19, 2009 10:49 PM |
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Quote:
But you mention the Aggro!
Aggro essentially is short for any deckset that wins the game by attack, and damage, in itself.
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Steel Yourself for War
Next Set: Mirrodin
Beseiged
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RedSoxFan3
Admirable
Legendary Hero
Fan of Red Sox
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posted April 20, 2009 03:51 PM |
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Looking from a purist approach to aggro decks, there are usually 2 or 3 types of pure aggro decks.
1.) Sligh
- Very cheap creatures, this often has either burn spells or spot creature removal such as Path to Exile or Terminate. Sometimes depending on the metagame, you'll see naturalize or pillage in a deck like this as well.
2.) Ramp Aggro
- This usually plays mana acceleration along with big beefy creatures and a couple board sweepers.
3.) Mid Game Aggro
- This is an aggro deck that gives up tempo for card advantage. Rather than being able to swing for 10+ on the third turn, this deck focuses on maintaining a strong board. Highly effective against sligh decks.
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Go Red Sox!
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Ecoris
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted April 20, 2009 05:04 PM |
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Aggro/Control usually refer to decks that play cheap creatures and back them up with counters and removal. Faeries in standard is a good example. Merfolk, Slivers and threshold decks in Legacy.
What you describe seems like ramp decks / good stuff decks instead.
If you give up tempo for card advantage your deck is far from being an aggro deck. What you describe is control.
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RedSoxFan3
Admirable
Legendary Hero
Fan of Red Sox
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posted April 20, 2009 10:45 PM |
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Then how do you describe R/W Reveillark? This deck is definitely aggro. It's certainly not as fast as a sligh deck in terms of beating down your opponent turns 2-4. However this deck will dominate the board turns 3-7 against most decks.
Reveillark and Ranger of Eos, are definitely aggro cards, but they give up tempo (in that they are less efficient) for card advantage.
This is what I meant by mid game aggro.
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Go Red Sox!
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Ecoris
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted April 20, 2009 11:07 PM |
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Edited by Ecoris at 23:10, 20 Apr 2009.
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I'm not that much into standard, but I usually keep up with what is played. R/W Reveillark, Boat Brew, R/W tokens are names that cover the type of deck you refer to? I would call such decks aggro/midrange. They can curve out pretty well with t1 figure or fanatic, t2 pump figure + another 1 drop or some 2 drop and spectral procession turn 3 (against some decks they would then have overextended). But they include Reveillark, SGC and even Mind Stone, none of which can be considered as aggro cards. Mind Stone is there two enable those two 5-drops (and also play a t3 Ajani).
A straight aggro deck would never play Mind Stone, and 5-drops are typically too expensive to see play (Demigod is a notable exception, but one of the key arguments for running it was to provide inevitability vs control).
This is all just terminology, though. You may call it what you like.
Edit: Your edit seemed to cross my post. I would not characterize Reveillark and Ranger as aggro cards. They aren't that aggresive compared to their mana cost. Aggro usually doesn't want to give up tempo to gain card advantage, unless there is very good card advantage to be had (Reveillark and Ranger are good examples).
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted April 20, 2009 11:23 PM |
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Quote:
Frankly, I don't see the awesome in Feldon's Cane + Wrath of God, or any other board sweeper for that matter. Feldon's Cane seems more like so-so anti-milling tech.
Put some gravediggers (? (not sure of name)search graveyard and bring any card back to your hand) and ice flo (? been awhile..land that you can tap to play an extra land a turn) and you pretty much have an endlessly regenerating deck. Not only that, one that destroys your enemies mana. The wrath is if your enemy actually manages to get some creatures in play. Then the cane brings everything back to your deck. I played a lot of milling decks..this was a great counter. It was blue/white with some counterspells to make sure you got the wrath off and the cane out.
Even had an all artifact deck. Hard to pull off at the time, but once going it was nasty. The good thing about this type of deck was any kind of land could be used, which meant I could use all special lands.
I never was too good at the jujitsu decks (mind control, counterspell, manasink, enchantments, etc).
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Message received.
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RedSoxFan3
Admirable
Legendary Hero
Fan of Red Sox
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posted April 21, 2009 06:21 PM |
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Quote:
I'm not that much into standard, but I usually keep up with what is played. R/W Reveillark, Boat Brew, R/W tokens are names that cover the type of deck you refer to? I would call such decks aggro/midrange. They can curve out pretty well with t1 figure or fanatic, t2 pump figure + another 1 drop or some 2 drop and spectral procession turn 3 (against some decks they would then have overextended). But they include Reveillark, SGC and even Mind Stone, none of which can be considered as aggro cards. Mind Stone is there two enable those two 5-drops (and also play a t3 Ajani).
A straight aggro deck would never play Mind Stone, and 5-drops are typically too expensive to see play (Demigod is a notable exception, but one of the key arguments for running it was to provide inevitability vs control).
This is all just terminology, though. You may call it what you like.
Edit: Your edit seemed to cross my post. I would not characterize Reveillark and Ranger as aggro cards. They aren't that aggresive compared to their mana cost. Aggro usually doesn't want to give up tempo to gain card advantage, unless there is very good card advantage to be had (Reveillark and Ranger are good examples).
Maybe Boat Brew is more of a combo/aggro deck then, with a strong mid game due to its card advantage and resiliency.
Generally I've always thought of decks in 3 categories, aggro, combo, and control. And this fits into an aggro deck better than any other. Sure it gives up some tempo, but that's just because it isn't sligh.
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Go Red Sox!
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Ecoris
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted April 22, 2009 04:49 PM |
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It's definately not combo.
In the aggro/control/combo distinction it fits best into aggro. But that's a very simple partition of decktypes. In some matchups it will play beatdown in others it will play control. Midrange-aggro is a good description. It gives up some of the early game to be able to play powerful cards like Ajani, Lark and SGC.
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Disturbed-Gnu
Supreme Hero
Pro Bacon Vodka Brewer
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posted April 23, 2009 03:48 PM |
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What is the word for a deck that focus on emptying the opponents graveyard?
I thought it was Drowner deck, but i can't find any drowner deck.. The only thing i can find is "Drowner of Secrets deck" But is that it?
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Ecoris
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted April 23, 2009 05:08 PM |
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Edited by Ecoris at 17:10, 23 Apr 2009.
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Emptying the opponent's graveyard?? Are you sure you don't mean library?
A deck that seeks to empty the opponent's library can be called a mill deck.
Often you would call the deck something else depending on its strategic nature. Storm decks can win with Brainfreeze. Control decks can win with some sort of recursion that put cards back into their library, i.e. they don't mill the opponent.
Decks that do nothing but attack the opponent's library the same way aggro attacks the opponent's life total are quite rare and usually not competerive.
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