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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: How do you counter sylvan faction?
Thread: How do you counter sylvan faction? This thread is 5 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · NEXT»
LolerZ
LolerZ

Disgraceful

posted December 29, 2007 07:10 PM

How do you counter sylvan faction?

I've been missing sleep actually for about a few days thinking....i lost to a noobish friend, he used the sylvan faction...i used the inferno faction... he had his overpowered elder druid's...crystal dragons....i lost badly...i'm not that good either..but i was just wondering...how do you counter the sylvan faction? anybody please advice!
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Lesij
Lesij


Famous Hero
posted December 29, 2007 07:14 PM

You need to play orcs XD

And now serious. Which skills did you manage to take? What creatures had your rival and what were yours?

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Adon
Adon


Known Hero
posted December 29, 2007 09:22 PM

Your answer will depend on which faction you choose. If you are partial to a particular faction, I would go post this question on the appropriate strategy thread for that faction, and I'm sure you will get several responses.  

In general though, Sylvan becomes quite powerful in end game due to their high damage, high initiative units; especially the emerald dragons and arcane archers. Anything you can do to reduce their initiave and luck would help, as well a rush is usually a good idea.

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HartZa
HartZa


Known Hero
watchout graveyards!
posted December 29, 2007 11:44 PM

I wonder if this tread will be closed after alci finds it?

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TDL
TDL


Honorable
Supreme Hero
The weak suffer. I endure.
posted December 30, 2007 12:04 AM
Edited by TDL at 00:04, 30 Dec 2007.

Quote:
I wonder if this tread will be closed after alci finds it?


While no pun is intended, how much chance would u give that alci will take a look at it before closing it when the title says it all

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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted December 30, 2007 12:24 AM

I will notice the thread, and I will close it if I find it appropriate. No need for you to make comments about it.

I will leave this one open, btw., as I don't think we have any threads covering this exact topic - there was one a while back on how to counter Academy, and threads on how to defeat specific factions can lead to meaningful strategy discussions.

~ End of off-topic ~
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What will happen now?

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Daystar
Daystar


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Back from the Dead
posted December 30, 2007 01:27 AM

Well, Sylvan grows fast, so I think it is important to have a good defense set up.  Succubi, Hell Hounds and Nightmares are vital.  Hell Hounds and Nightmares are fast enough to get to the shooters quickly, and they can be strong enough to dismiss them.  Succubi are very useful since they have the retaliate against shooting thing.  This forces enemies to come up to you and attack, which is when you can make use of those sturdy Horned Demons.  

Imps are also good, their Mana Draining abilities help if the opponent wants to focus on Destructive Magic.  

Focus most on increasing speed and morale, if possible.  Also, mass slow/weakness can be very useful.



/offtopic: I haven't said anything about strategy in a long time.  It felt good!
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How exactly is luck a skill?

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LolerZ
LolerZ

Disgraceful

posted December 30, 2007 04:52 AM

Quote:
You need to play orcs XD

And now serious. Which skills did you manage to take? What creatures had your rival and what were yours?


Well...i had a couple of arch devils(2)...pit lords(split up 8,5) a horde of horned overseers a lot of familiars..and 13 hell chargers...he had elder druids...dragons etc and 1 thing arcane archers!
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LolerZ
LolerZ

Disgraceful

posted December 30, 2007 04:55 AM

Quote:
Well, Sylvan grows fast, so I think it is important to have a good defense set up.  Succubi, Hell Hounds and Nightmares are vital.  Hell Hounds and Nightmares are fast enough to get to the shooters quickly, and they can be strong enough to dismiss them.  Succubi are very useful since they have the retaliate against shooting thing.  This forces enemies to come up to you and attack, which is when you can make use of those sturdy Horned Demons.  

Imps are also good, their Mana Draining abilities help if the opponent wants to focus on Destructive Magic.  

Focus most on increasing speed and morale, if possible.  Also, mass slow/weakness can be very useful.



/offtopic: I haven't said anything about strategy in a long time.  It felt good!


Well, basically...sylvan uses range and since sylvan has 1 of the most range creatures in the game...its hard as hell...so even with dozens of succubus..it'll be useless....he druids + archers + sprites..and they have massive tanks...treants....
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LolerZ
LolerZ

Disgraceful

posted December 30, 2007 04:56 AM

Quote:
Your answer will depend on which faction you choose. If you are partial to a particular faction, I would go post this question on the appropriate strategy thread for that faction, and I'm sure you will get several responses.  

In general though, Sylvan becomes quite powerful in end game due to their high damage, high initiative units; especially the emerald dragons and arcane archers. Anything you can do to reduce their initiave and luck would help, as well a rush is usually a good idea.



Initiative and luck? must you get an artifact for that??? ill try it out though..thanks
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Mytical
Mytical


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
posted December 30, 2007 07:14 AM

Don't forget gating.  Gating units right next to the shooters can help a lot.  Also there is blind or mass confusion (if you can get dark).  Mass Deflect Missile for light, and Mass Endurence.  Also for dark...frenzy on the shooters.

Wall of fire, Arcane Crystal, Blade Barrier for Summoning (not including wasp swarm and/or pheonix.  Or Arcane Armor).

Orcs fear my roar and/or powerful blow/stunning blow.

Teleport assult (especially with meaty tanks).  There are a lot of ways to counter them.  Though they are too blasted fast hehe.

Now for Inferno you have a couple of options.  Like I mentioned gating.  They may get a couple of ranged attacks but then they will be blocked. (At least until those gated units are destroyed).  Seducers or mistresses.  Hellhounds (simply because of no-retal and can hit multiple units).  Your familiars can effectively drain your enemies spellpoints normally.  The other alt upgrades can make the druids into range attackers only.  The flaming arrow/tripple balista (even without deleb) can hurt those dragons bad.

Not an easy fight by any means however.
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Adon
Adon


Known Hero
posted December 30, 2007 08:31 AM

Sorry if you mean specifically for Inferno, your best bet is not to let them grow out of control and get a ton of initiative and luck boosting artifacts by trying a Deleb rush (though less effective than previously, she is still good).  Your troops of choice will be the dogs and horses, as they have sufficient initiative to get a NASTY first hit in against the ranged units (you want those archers gone first chance possible).  Your seducers could take control of a strong unit like the dragons, but the chain shot retalitation of the succubi  would also be helpful.

Your build should be for the rush with Deleb: War Machines to help creep fast, Dark Magic and Attack (plus obviously gating).  Mass Slow/Mass Confusion will be extremely useful against Sylvan.  Artifacts that increase your initiative or reduce theirs will be the ones to go for, as well anything that can increase the damage your dogs and horses do on the first shot. The one of you who gets the first shot in will probably win, Sylvan v Inferno in my experience is brutally decided in the first round of combat.

Familiars, Leapers, Firehounds, Mistresses, Hellchargers, Pit Spawns and Arch Devils would be my pick for upgrades.

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radar
radar


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Castle/Haven player
posted December 30, 2007 10:09 AM

In such numbers you mentioned here - I mean small - I agree, Druid Elders may cause some nasty casualities with their Lightning Bolt.

I'd pick Alastor here. Mass confusion, Druids can't shot or cast spells.

My pick vs Treants is Pit Lord's Vorpal Sword. This + Mard of the Damned should be enough.

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Lesij
Lesij


Famous Hero
posted December 30, 2007 10:42 AM

POwerfull blow do not worth it while playing orcs...
With flaming ballista you can destroy his draco in one hit...
Moreover- inferno also should take triple ballista+ flaming arrows- if u had that skill- you would kil him...
About hell hounds it is neccesery to move them up to attack defenders of your opponent...
They can strike th tile just behind them attacking shooters.
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ElectricBunny
ElectricBunny


Known Hero
Pimp My Box
posted December 30, 2007 10:56 AM
Edited by ElectricBunny at 10:57, 30 Dec 2007.

There shouldn't be any serious time for gating to the hunters - I mean it takes 2 turns and you could be spending your time killing off the Treants or something instead.

Actually druids are spellcasters, so regardless of whether they have adjacent enemies or not, they can still 'shoot'.
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Mytical
Mytical


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
posted December 30, 2007 10:58 AM
Edited by Mytical at 11:03, 30 Dec 2007.

Kraugh makes an excellent powerful blow > Stunning blow > Excrutiatind strike.  For the others, I wholeheartedly agree.  Use to think different, but that balista is tremendous with flaming arrows.  Especially with Haggash.  However, Kraugh is another story altogether.  He can make sure the archers almost never get to act or any other stack you want to eliminate.  (Especially with powerful blow).

Some towns face Sylvan easier then others, but they are counterable.  Every town is, though sometimes it is really hard and relies on luck.

And druids can't cast if they have no mana (the alt upgrade of gremlins can make sure they don't). As for gating, you can use some creature like Imps (or their upgrades) to gate.  As they won't reach the other side fast, and will loose too many if they attempt it.
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Veteranewbie
Veteranewbie


Adventuring Hero
posted December 30, 2007 11:27 AM
Edited by Veteranewbie at 11:28, 30 Dec 2007.

Quote:
Quote:
You need to play orcs XD

And now serious. Which skills did you manage to take? What creatures had your rival and what were yours?


Well...i had a couple of arch devils(2)...pit lords(split up 8,5) a horde of horned overseers a lot of familiars..and 13 hell chargers...he had elder druids...dragons etc and 1 thing arcane archers!


Horner Overseers are the last thing you want to count on for Inferno, they're useless. Your money are better spent elsewhere
You really should get firehounds as much as possible (which may save you from Arcane Archers if you're lucky). With tactics the dogs can work wonder, but also if they have any meatshield in front of their druids/archers, your firehound can damage the archers behind IF you can reach them first turn (I think it really depends on luck that you have placed them on the right spot)
Firehound Succubus and Nightmare are your backbone. The slightly lower initiative of seducers can be problematic (if they focus fire on them and kill them before they can seduce) so perhaps mistresses are better.
The fastest thing for Sylvan I think are the dragons which is really difficult as once your horses cross the field to attack them, his dragons will no doubt smash your horses into pieces, or it may fly across the field to kill your dogs.
If your units can't do significant damages to them or have to take some hits anyway, go gating to fill your ranks and block them.

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Cleave
Cleave


Promising
Famous Hero
Raging Blood
posted December 30, 2007 11:48 AM

Quote:
And druids can't cast if they have no mana (the alt upgrade of gremlins can make sure they don't).


I don't remember that the vermin's siphon mana ability works that way.

The Demonlord gets destruction and dark magic spells so use them!

Master hunters and arcane archers have 14 hitpoints, that's nothing for tier 3 creatures. So blast them away. Ice bolt (2nd level spell) without any destructive skill and 10 spellpower would kill 12 of them.

Treants are tanks but their damage is not that great and they have low initiative (nevertheless watch out for savage treants who boost this stat), if you want to kill the treants you should take out dryads first (symbiosis ability).

Reading this thread you must have realized that it would be better to use dark magic, level 4 and 5 spells are all good spells (even Curse of the Netherworld can be useful if your spellpower is high enough since many sylvan creatures have low hitpoints). It's even better since your familiars will drain the Ranger's mana points he won't be able to use cleansing or magical immunity a lot.

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Mytical
Mytical


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
posted December 30, 2007 11:59 AM

I will admit I don't use vermin a lot.  I was under the impression it steals enemy casters mana and gives it to your or hero?  Or something.  If I am mistaken let me know.  Knowledge is always apreciated.
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Veteranewbie
Veteranewbie


Adventuring Hero
posted December 30, 2007 12:00 PM

Quote:
Quote:
And druids can't cast if they have no mana (the alt upgrade of gremlins can make sure they don't).


I don't remember that the vermin's siphon mana ability works that way.

The Demonlord gets destruction and dark magic spells so use them!

Master hunters and arcane archers have 14 hitpoints, that's nothing for tier 3 creatures. So blast them away. Ice bolt (2nd level spell) without any destructive skill and 10 spellpower would kill 12 of them.

Treants are tanks but their damage is not that great and they have low initiative (nevertheless watch out for savage treants who boost this stat), if you want to kill the treants you should take out dryads first (symbiosis ability).

Reading this thread you must have realized that it would be better to use dark magic, level 4 and 5 spells are all good spells (even Curse of the Netherworld can be useful if your spellpower is high enough since many sylvan creatures have low hitpoints). It's even better since your familiars will drain the Ranger's mana points he won't be able to use cleansing or magical immunity a lot.


I think Vermins can only siphon from Heroes

Destruction is bad for Demon Lord as they don't receive spell power, Dark is the main magic choice for Demon Lord

For Demon Lord your damaging spells aren't that great; 10 spellpower can be difficult for Demon Lord to get. You can only rely on the troops to kill them.

I also agree to kill Dryads first (that's pretty easy) But treants is a great threat to Inferno as Inferno is supposed to attack. Most of the time your dogs and horses will be on their side when the treants move.

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