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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: How do you counter sylvan faction?
Thread: How do you counter sylvan faction? This thread is 5 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · «PREV / NEXT»
Drunk_Lord
Drunk_Lord


Known Hero
very happy hero :)
posted February 01, 2008 05:55 PM
Edited by Drunk_Lord at 15:11, 02 Feb 2008.

I agree that Master of Blessings is a must but most people often get surprised when they see a knight with dark magic . The element of surprise
Quote:

Quote:
How do you counter sylvan faction?





Prayer.  Lots of prayer.


Interesting suggestion . I'll try it tonight.

Edit:Hey praying did the trick just kidding I played two games vs sylvan with dungeon and won both. But the second was much harder.
For the first game I used Sinitar and some hit 'n' run. Btw the results were good. It was in lategame(I didn't rush cause I wanted to test how will dungeon do in lategame). So I with some luck grabbed good stuff from trade guild (robe of sar-isus, dragon teeth necklace and dragon crown) and found slippers. With my build:
Exp Destructive-Master Of Fire-Secrets Of Destruction
Exp Enlightment-Intelligence-Wizard's Reward, Dark Revalation
Exp Luck-Warlock's Luck
Exp Sorcerery-Arcane Training, Erratic Mana-Arcane Excellence
Exp Defense-Last Stand
So I blasted his hunters the first time with a meteor shower and some other creatures as well then fled, and came again and blast some other creatures. Thank god he hadn't cloak of syllana(maybe The Gootch advice helped here[prayer rlz, hah ]). Then took my army and fended off the remains of enemy army.

The second game as I said was much harder(again it was lategame). I was playing Lethos. My build was:
Exp Dark:All 3 perks
Exp Defense:Vitality:Stand Your Ground and Power of Endurance
Exp Attack:Battle Frenzy-Retribution, Power of Speed
Exp Leadership-Aura of Swiftness and Diplomacy
Exp Luck-Resistance, Resourcefullness
An unusual build but I must say it works fine. Mass Haste(though on advanced) + exp mass slow and maybe if u add mass endurance(again advanced) + exp mass suffering = groundbreaker. Well ur opponent can cleanse them easily, but after a PM he couldn't cleanse with his advanced light magic with a whole turn wasted I had some good spellcasting options Leadership + Luck and retrinution is blaster though.
I played without hydras and minos to save money and build the dwellings only to sacrafice them for furies.
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okrane
okrane


Famous Hero
posted February 02, 2008 03:26 PM

Why on earth would you get stand your ground? It's not like your ever gonna defend with dungeon.

The rest of the build is interesting. Some replays would be nice.

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Drunk_Lord
Drunk_Lord


Known Hero
very happy hero :)
posted February 02, 2008 05:05 PM

Quote:
Why on earth would you get stand your ground? It's not like your ever gonna defend with dungeon.

well, last stand actually is great if u rely on hit 'n' run with a warlock. It gives u serious backup. Imagine if enemy has word of light. It kills all ur 1-assassin stacks. If u havn't fled by the time he casts u're dead and then u can't rehire ur strongest hero cause you didn't flee! And it may win u a second cast also
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silentQ
silentQ


Hired Hero
umm... yeah.... got milk?
posted February 02, 2008 07:46 PM

the one thing you have to do against sylvan is to survive first attack...
unless you got arties with initiative boost almost all his units will have a go before yours.
so defense is a must. once you survive that.. gate your units and off you go... archers (obvious devastation) and unicorns (magic res) must go first... once that's dead you have little to fear... druids will be confused so no spells cast at ya... dragons die eventually and leave treants for last...

btw which upgrade does his use for druids and which strategy? cuz if he's using spells and alt upgrade for druids with channeling (which boosts hero's spell power greatly) you might wanna finish off druids asap if you have a chance before their turn.

ultimate faction vs sylvan is fortress... especially if you're playig late game and have your hands on ultimate ability  

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Drunk_Lord
Drunk_Lord


Known Hero
very happy hero :)
posted February 02, 2008 09:00 PM
Edited by Drunk_Lord at 21:19, 03 Feb 2008.

Quote:
the one thing you have to do against sylvan is to survive first attack...

Agreed. Although I think its better if the opponent tries to survive u'r first strike.

Quote:
unless you got arties with initiative boost almost all his units will have a go before yours.

The point of late game is all about gathering maximum strength. With some luck u'll find what u need.

Quote:
so defense is a must. once you survive that.. gate your units and off you go... archers (obvious devastation) and unicorns (magic res) must go first... once that's dead you have little to fear...

lol, buddy. That only for haven and fortress. U just can't rush with those factions. For other faction I'll say they've got good rushing and won't have to survive any "first strikes"...

Quote:
druids will be confused so no spells cast at ya... dragons die eventually and leave treants for last...

A bit of mistake here. Confused druids does not shoot, but can still cast. In the case of Alastor they can't cast .

Quote:
btw which upgrade does his use for druids and which strategy? cuz if he's using spells and alt upgrade for druids with channeling (which boosts hero's spell power greatly) you might wanna finish off druids asap if you have a chance before their turn.

Agreed.

Quote:
ultimate faction vs sylvan is fortress... especially if you're playig late game and have your hands on ultimate ability

Maybe. But the question is who will access the ultimate first. Note that for ultimate protection u need exorcism which is pretty crappy. And u also need two magic schools, which isn't the best for fortress. And least those 4% of getting summoning...
The ranger can access his ultimate much more easily. 8% chance for light per level, 15% for logs, 15% for luck.
The dwarves have 10% destr., 4% summoning and 15% defense.
Work it out urself which is better.
I'm not saying that fortress aren't good. Actually they're great in my opinion

Edit: I won another game vs sylvan this time with inferno. I used a strategy of mine and build hero(Deleb ) this way:
Exp War Machines-Triple Balista
Exp Enlightment-Intelligence-Wizard's Reward, Dark Revalation
Exp Sorcerery-Magic Insight(CRAP!)-Arcane Excellence-Distract
Exp Attack-Battle Frenzy, Excr. Strike-Flaming Arrows
Exp Summoning-Master Of Conjuration, Fire Warriors
The point in this built was to get killer(ballista) + some other killer(fire elementals) . Lol, with 15 SPP and Fire Warriors u summon arround 54 of this guys, which is decent, not to say good. And mind that I don't add any arties. With some SPP arties and El. waistbands its gonna be an damn good With arties I summoned more than 100 Fire elementals !!! The init is the only weak point of Fire elements, but a single haste spell on lvl none would make their init 10.
It was lategame and my opponent had built a decent army(I was playin' on LAN). But after he killed my Nightmares(which I sacraficed for the others to survive) elementals and ballista kicked in, devastatin the arcane archers and dragons. Some arcane armor and raise dead helped. At the end I had losed all nightmares, cerberi, imps and devils vs opponent's army which consisted of:
150 pixies, 80 dancers, 103 arcane archers, 40 druids, 33 unicorns, some treants and 9 dragons.
I had before the battle: 200 imps(lucky with joiners), 20 overseers , 80 cerberi, 65 succubi, around 25 nightmares, 15 pit lords and 5 devils.
It was imba with cloning those 200 elements
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okrane
okrane


Famous Hero
posted February 03, 2008 05:20 PM

Could you post the replays of these games? That would be interesting.

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Drunk_Lord
Drunk_Lord


Known Hero
very happy hero :)
posted February 03, 2008 05:25 PM

lol, thanks actually I'm a bit of theorycrafter I usually have to do one or two goes two got the right one About uploading my replays...  My game isn't on this computer, I played in a friend of mine
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okrane
okrane


Famous Hero
posted February 03, 2008 09:22 PM

get them by e-mail then... I always like good replays.

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Drunk_Lord
Drunk_Lord


Known Hero
very happy hero :)
posted February 03, 2008 09:25 PM

I'll see what I can do
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forest001
forest001


Known Hero
posted February 04, 2008 09:50 AM

Quote:
It was imba with cloning those 200 elements


how come you manage to get 65 SP??
because you need that much to summon 200 elements.

i guess you all more than  a bit theorycrafer.

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted February 04, 2008 10:15 AM

Here is my way of countering sylvan..

balance patch

- Pixies/Sprites/Dryads' speed reduced by 1 point.
- Wind dancers' speed reduced by 1 point.
- Wind dancer's bonus provides only 1 point of def per crossed tile. A more duel-mode oriented change.
- Crystal Dragons' breath nerfed
- Arcane Archer no longer ignores 50% def of target.
- Warmachine now has 10% chance of spawning
- Enlightment now has 2% chance of spawning
- Talanar now starts with basic warmachines + tent skill rather than leadership + recruitment.
- Rangers no longer can learn aura of swiftness.

A solid nerf to sylvan's endgame, a decent boost to their earlygame. Now triple imbued balista + destructive becomes a choice rather than  
decoration.

-_-

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted February 04, 2008 10:40 AM

I'd certainly like to see things take this direction. The wind dancers are good enough with the previous unit's speed just as arcane archers do not need the extra defense reduction.. Sprites I don't mind as they are but aura of swiftness is yet another step for attacking with all units in the first turn. I rather like your idea about warmachines. I don't like the prospect of turning all might factions into warmachine oriented but an early imbued ballista would help against a rush.
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pinkspear
pinkspear


Known Hero
Crazy like a fool
posted February 04, 2008 10:42 AM

Quote:
Quote:
It was imba with cloning those 200 elements


how come you manage to get 65 SP??
because you need that much to summon 200 elements.

i guess you all more than  a bit theorycrafer.


Fire warriors gives you +40% more elementals, so you don't need extra high spellpower.


Quote:
Here is my way of countering sylvan..

balance patch

- Pixies/Sprites/Dryads' speed reduced by 1 point.
- Wind dancers' speed reduced by 1 point.
- Wind dancer's bonus provides only 1 point of def per crossed tile. A more duel-mode oriented change.
- Crystal Dragons' breath nerfed
- Arcane Archer no longer ignores 50% def of target.
- Warmachine now has 10% chance of spawning
- Enlightment now has 2% chance of spawning
- Talanar now starts with basic warmachines + tent skill rather than leadership + recruitment.
- Rangers no longer can learn aura of swiftness.

A solid nerf to sylvan's endgame, a decent boost to their earlygame. Now triple imbued balista + destructive becomes a choice rather than  
decoration.




Sounds OK, good idea

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Mytical
Mytical


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
posted February 04, 2008 10:46 AM

Unfortunately, if you change Sylvan's late game, the late game of a lot of others should change also.  Noticably Haven and Fortress.  Which would require a lot more work.  However, some good ideas
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forest001
forest001


Known Hero
posted February 04, 2008 11:40 AM
Edited by forest001 at 12:11, 04 Feb 2008.

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
It was imba with cloning those 200 elements


how come you manage to get 65 SP??
because you need that much to summon 200 elements.

i guess you all more than  a bit theorycrafer.


Fire warriors gives you +40% more elementals, so you don't need extra high spellpower.



so take a look at this

65 SP exp summoning magic elementals = 2*sp(65(+4 from master of ...)(+4 elemental waistband)) = 146 + 40% (from fire warriors)= 205
you do need extra sp for 200fire warriors.

EDIT: added elemental waistband, but still not enough to be true

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Mytical
Mytical


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
posted February 04, 2008 11:43 AM
Edited by Mytical at 11:46, 04 Feb 2008.

Don't forget the elemental waistband, changes things a little.

Edit though not much.  
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okrane
okrane


Famous Hero
posted February 04, 2008 12:46 PM

I believe it's the magic factions that need a boost, and not sylvan needs to be nerfed.

Let's be honest, the way the game is right now, in the late game, a might faction would obliterate any magic one.

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forest001
forest001


Known Hero
posted February 04, 2008 12:51 PM

Quote:
I believe it's the magic factions that need a boost, and not sylvan needs to be nerfed.

Let's be honest, the way the game is right now, in the late game, a might faction would obliterate any magic one.


and vice versa in early game.

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okrane
okrane


Famous Hero
posted February 04, 2008 01:02 PM
Edited by okrane at 13:03, 04 Feb 2008.

exactly.
So it depends on the map mostly. But seen as most maps have some strong guardians between the two players might factions are somewhat advantaged.
That's why this huge gap should be slightly filled - boost might early game and magic end game... at least potentially speaking.


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samiekl
samiekl


Supreme Hero
posted February 04, 2008 02:18 PM

Quote:
Here is my way of countering sylvan..

balance patch

- Enlightment now has 2% chance of spawning




I actually agree with this one, but not with the other ones

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