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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: Muslims are not terrorists
Thread: Muslims are not terrorists This thread is 27 pages long: 1 ... 8 9 10 11 12 ... 20 27 · «PREV / NEXT»
william
william


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Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
posted April 08, 2008 06:57 AM

Quote:

And whoever says that dropping atomic bombs doesn't save lives is intellectually dishonest?
It indeed saved lives. An invasion of Japan would have killed more Japanese. What's more, it would have killed innocent American soldiers who were drafted.



Whatever way you look at it Mvass, there will be innocents on both sides. So not only were some of the Americans innocent, but also some of the Japanese as well. Just depends which side you look at things.
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Binabik
Binabik


Responsible
Legendary Hero
posted April 08, 2008 07:17 AM - penalty applied by angelito on 09 Apr 2008.

ALL of the Americans were innocent. Japan attacked the US, so every single American life lost was Japans fault. If dropping the bomb killed 100,000 Japanese and saved one American life, then it was worth it.

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william
william


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LummoxLewis
posted April 08, 2008 07:19 AM

Yes I know that. But what I was saying that from whatever side you look at it, there would have been Japanese soldiers that were innocent because they may have been forced into the Army, and there were American soldiers that were also innocent. It all depends on the view point.

That is all I meant.
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Binabik
Binabik


Responsible
Legendary Hero
posted April 08, 2008 07:23 AM

What I'm saying is that ALL the American soldiers were innocent, not just some.

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william
william


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Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
posted April 08, 2008 07:25 AM

Alright, sorry for the misunderstanding. I never really took an interest to Modern History, and I am not an American, so I wouldn't really know.

Sorry once again.
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Mytical
Mytical


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Chaos seeking Harmony
posted April 08, 2008 07:35 AM

Maybe not the place to discuss a totally different war , but I disagree.  Yes, Japan was responsible for the attack that brought us into the war.  Yes, a lot of innocent people died.  However, it is not a given that we would have remained out of the war had it not happened.  Also I believe no soldier is every truely innocent.

While defending your country (friends, ect) is noble, they are willingly taking the chance of killing innocents, even if by accident.  War is heck, and it is not pretty.  That is why a lot of soldiers come back changed after being a war.

Also, the deaths of so many innocents that the atomic bombs killed can hardly be shrugged off.  Not to mention the area became uninhabitable.  I can't say there was another way, or that it was the wrong choice, but the deaths of those innocents is on OUR (America's) hands, because we CHOSE to do it.  That's just my opinon, however.

If this debate is to continue, it needs a thread of its own, lets return to our regularly scheduled debate
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mvassilev
mvassilev


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Undefeatable Hero
posted April 08, 2008 09:40 PM

Quote:
Whatever way you look at it Mvass, there will be innocents on both sides. So not only were some of the Americans innocent, but also some of the Japanese as well. Just depends which side you look at things.
True. But I think that the bombing saved more innocents than it killed.

Quote:
ALL of the Americans were innocent. Japan attacked the US, so every single American life lost was Japans fault. If dropping the bomb killed 100,000 Japanese and saved one American life, then it was worth it.
No. You're simply wrong here. Did every Japanese civillian go and bomb Pearl Harbor? No. It is the fault of the Japanese government, but not of the innocent Japanese people.
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baklava
baklava


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Mostly harmless
posted April 08, 2008 10:09 PM
Edited by baklava at 12:10, 09 Apr 2008.

One of the rare things where I agree with MVas.
(Except the first part of the post where it says that the bombing saved innocents...)

Quote:
ALL of the Americans were innocent. Japan attacked the US, so every single American life lost was Japans fault. If dropping the bomb killed 100,000 Japanese and saved one American life, then it was worth it.


When a Muslim says this, he's a terrorist. When you say it, it's democracy.

Do you even realize how wrong this is?
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Ecoris
Ecoris


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted April 08, 2008 11:14 PM

Quote:
ALL of the Americans were innocent. Japan attacked the US, so every single American life lost was Japans fault. If dropping the bomb killed 100,000 Japanese and saved one American life, then it was worth it.

What is this supposed to mean?
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Homam
Homam


Known Hero
Sailor of the open seas
posted April 08, 2008 11:56 PM

Quote:
Quote:
ALL of the Americans were innocent. Japan attacked the US, so every single American life lost was Japans fault. If dropping the bomb killed 100,000 Japanese and saved one American life, then it was worth it.



I'm not gonna say anything to change your mind.
All i will do is to think like you and asking you this?You are an american.You must be feel really lucky that you live till now.Why?

All of the people died to every single war ,americans involved were innocents?American attacked.So every single life worldwide lost was americans fault.If dropping a "tower" and killed some thousands americans and saved one non american life,then it was worth it.

I just followed your mind with others roles.If you think that was ok and you can have your peace of mind then everyone here should feel ok then i 'm ok with that you said.

We all are victims!I'm a victim the americans were the victims, the japanese were the victims,the jews were the victims,the muslims were the victims, the nazis were the victims.But who is the guilty?  
Martians of course

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Homam
Homam


Known Hero
Sailor of the open seas
posted April 09, 2008 12:30 AM

And a reply in a raw i forget to mention.Why so much tollerance to this he said?Not from moderators.From many that replied.I really can't get it and i tried to be as "calm" as i could and then i read replies like <<"sorry" i don't know modern american history well>>

Well william you think you need historical lessons to see how "wrong" was his phrase.You need historical lessons to reject such phrases?
I'm not gonna tell you what to do.But really i'm wandering.

Or the other "great" i read.<<It saved lives>> Yeah bc as u wrote if there were no bombs it would have been an invasion which maybe would cost many american lives.And why the invansion?In 1945 the war had already ended.And why the bombs?To honor the heroes of pearl harbor?To praise your brocken morale?To simply test the great mass disaster new weapon? To give the world an idea what is going next?You can pick whatever you want.

It was war,a world war.And we here cannot speak with peace's standards.We ignore many things.So in wars there are no victims,killers,heroes.All they are what their "kids" want to make them, to them and to us, their "grandkids".If i were an american maybe i would consider "enola gay" pilot as a hero.If i was a japanese i would consider the pilots who made the pearl harbor attack heroes.If i were "taliban" maybe the terrorists.

And you binabik go tell your ideas to the kids in Hiroshima,in Nagashaki where your "heroes" dropped their gifts,that even today they borned with  5 legs and 3 eyes.And it's not cause of the humanity's evolution in case this idea would pass from your mind.

All these are pretty relevant.The point is to see and "study" the facts from a distanced neutral without emotionals view.I haven't achieved that till i wrote this.It's the easy choice for me to pick the angle that would praise my morale my patriotism and makes me feel "greater" than others that differs to me.


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mvassilev
mvassilev


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Undefeatable Hero
posted April 09, 2008 12:35 AM

Quote:
And why the invansion?
Because Japan still wanted to fight.
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roy-algriffin
roy-algriffin


Supreme Hero
Chocolate ice cream zealot
posted April 09, 2008 04:55 AM

The bomb was dropped for better or for worse, As pretty much a new toy, A costly invasion would probably have killed more. But an important aspect was the supermancy, The battle of wills in every war. They didnt want the end of the war, they wanted everyone to fear them so that the chances of them being attacked would become negligible.
As many can probably guess, If it hadnt been dropped there would ahve been a decent chance Russia would have gone off to war somewhere. No Nukes, No Mutually Assured Destruction.
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Mytical
Mytical


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Chaos seeking Harmony
posted April 09, 2008 06:34 AM

Again, though, it is easy to blame somebody else for something.  Doesn't matter who actually was at fault, they will try to lay the blame elsewhere.  Nobody wants to stand up and say. "Hey, it's my fault." Why, when there are so many scapegoats out there?

I got news for you, a war is not a one sided thing.  Each side has their own version of what happened, and each blames the other.  Because it is easy to do.

Just like every American is not the flag waving, beer drinking, redneck that some like to think they are, not all Muslims are terrorist.

All Christians are not responsible for the crusades.

All 'white' people are not responsible for slavery.

All American Indians (of which I am one) do not want your scalps.

Etc.

Etc.

Etc.

Each INDIVIDUAL is responsible for their OWN actions.  Not the actions of their ancestors, their race, their religion, or even their sex.  Hey, I don't go blaming every man for treating women like cattle during the midevil ages .

If you are going to judge people, judge them by their own actions, not by the actions of somebody 'like' them.
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angelito
angelito


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
posted April 09, 2008 10:47 AM
Edited by angelito at 13:21, 09 Apr 2008.

Quote:
All American Indians (of which I am one) do not want your scalps...
Not sure about that....

I visited an indian reservation not long ago...


1st day:





Last day:




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Mytical
Mytical


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Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
posted April 09, 2008 11:01 AM

Oh PEOPLE are, but not all white people.   I've been to a reservation (or 2), trying to track down my ancestors (which by the way I am having no luck with).  Most of them I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy.  If anybody else gets a chance to go, make sure you have a strong stomach.
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Azagal
Azagal


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
posted April 09, 2008 11:52 AM
Edited by Azagal at 12:59, 09 Apr 2008.

Quote:
If dropping the bomb killed 100,000 Japanese and saved one American life, then it was worth it.

I don't know what you have to do on this forum to get a freakin penalty but how come this goes without a warning?! Because our hippie friend wrote it?! He says that japanese people are(were) worth less than americans. Isn't this racism? This is by far the most obvious and extreme racist statement I've seen on the entire board!!
Do you actually realize in your patriotic frenzy what you are saying?! Do you have any idea what happen in Nagasaki and Hiroshima?! DO YOU?! Hiroshima and Nagasaki are the biggest terrorist attacks in human history (EDIT: That's my opinion...since Hiroshima and Nagasaki where of no real military value). America succesfully blew up thousands of innocent (INNOCENT understand the meaning of the word?!?) people... even today people are born deformed/mentally disabled there and no where else in Japan do you have as many cancer cases... Now tell me if you have any argument for supporting your disgustingly ignorant and narrowminded claim that an american life is worth more than the one of even one japanese. I dare you.
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Gallow
Gallow


Bad-mannered
Known Hero
Avenger
posted April 09, 2008 12:06 PM

Quote:
If dropping the bomb killed 100,000 Japanese and saved one American life, then it was worth it.


this is what i dont understand,some ppl says tremendous things,but nothing happens,but when one defend ownself from others,penalization comes..nice

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TitaniumAlloy
TitaniumAlloy


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Professional
posted April 09, 2008 12:15 PM
Edited by TitaniumAlloy at 12:23, 09 Apr 2008.

Quote:
ALL of the Americans were innocent. Japan attacked the US, so every single American life lost was Japans fault.
If dropping the bomb killed 100,000 Japanese and saved one American life, then it was worth it.


This is one of the most morally wrong statements I have ever heard.


You can't just collectively blame every Japanese for the decisions of their government?

And Roosevelt's administration at the time provided military aid to the British, Japan's war enemy at the time, which is against international war rules, as well as halting trade (& oil and shipping) with Japan and freezing Japanese assets within America.
The attack was not unprovoked.
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baklava
baklava


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
posted April 09, 2008 12:29 PM

While we're at it...

Quote:
1) NO insults, abuse, racism or sexism.


Quote:
6) NO provocation or aggravation.


Quote:
ALL of the Americans were innocent. Japan attacked the US, so every single American life lost was Japans fault.
If dropping the bomb killed 100,000 Japanese and saved one American life, then it was worth it.


I am seriously starting to question the ability (or simply common sense) of the mod around here.
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you got the blues."
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