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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: Underpowered Heroes!
Thread: Underpowered Heroes! This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
okrane
okrane


Famous Hero
posted January 16, 2008 05:29 PM
Edited by okrane at 17:30, 16 Jan 2008.

Underpowered Heroes!

Playing Dungeon at Random and getting Yrbeth as your main?
Ever lost a game because your oponent got Havez and you got Faiz?

This is the thread you've been waiting for...

Honestly, I so wonder who designed the heroes is such a way that some heroes are simply excellent and others really sucky...

I'm gonna list a few I consider sub-par:

Yrbeth: Dark magic + a weak special... what more could you want.

Raven: Like I'm ever casting weakness...

Faiz: well, at least he's got Basic Dark Magic...

Alastor: at least give this guy dark magic from the start, so he can at least creep...

Sorgal: yeah... those lizards can bite me...

Let the list continue and complaints begin!
Seriously, maybe we should get enough suggestions to make a little mod to make these guys a little more viable...

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DarkShadow
DarkShadow


Legendary Hero
Cerise Princess
posted January 16, 2008 05:58 PM

that inferno hero who tries to break spells,pathedic.

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted January 16, 2008 06:32 PM

@DarkShadow
You can't be serious

I'll agree that many are not up to par with the elite heroes usually 2-3 for each faction.

Let's see..

Sylvan:

Dirael. While it's a refreshing change she kinda sucks. She needs a map with many adventure locations to learn spells and later she can get a nice spellpower boost from the high druids. But usually..

Gilraen. Not bad but protection and defense is not the best way to play sylvan. I might have said that about Anwen but her special makes up for that

Talanar is a bit mediocre, his special does not offer much.

Fortress:

Svea is quite underpowered. Rest are fine.

Dungeon:

Yrbeth as you said. She's be nice you if the guild had dark spells.

Sorgal would be a better choice if his special also gave att/def to the raiders.

Maybe Kythra if she did not have estates but she's not bad anyway.

Academy:

Narxes starting with intelligence and fist of wrath is umm not that terrific. At least he can get a fast wizard's reward but it's no sorcery-eldritch arrow.

Faiz you mentioned and then there's Galib. Not a bad start but I'd rather he had an offensive spell at least.

Necro:

Zoltan is good but arcane intuition..?

Actually Raven can be pretty good, a mass weakness that also reduces defense can be totally worth it. It's just that destruction is not always worth it with necro, at least in TotE they can get an easy secrets of destruction.

Kaspar is fun but as recently discussed not that good a choice unless for rushing.

Vladimir right now is a meh choice. If at least he got a decent bonus in raise dead.

I wish Lucretia did not start with mana regeneration..

Haven:

Rutger is cool but I'd rather he did not start with logistics.

Ellaine is not really a main hero. Good skills, bad special.

Inferno:

Grawl. Destructive..? Bleh.

Alastor and Jejebeth starting with sorcery really hurts them. So many good skills and they get sorcery, what's up with that?

Stronghold:

The wyvern tamer really has a bad start compared to others. That's more of a long term hero, I usually build wyverns on week 4 the earliest.

Kilghan would be more fun to start with a gobbo army Not bad but it may take a while until he picks up in strength.


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okrane
okrane


Famous Hero
posted January 16, 2008 06:53 PM

Quote:
@DarkShadow
You can't be serious

I'll agree that many are not up to par with the elite heroes usually 2-3 for each faction.

Let's see..

Sylvan:

Dirael. While it's a refreshing change she kinda sucks. She needs a map with many adventure locations to learn spells and later she can get a nice spellpower boost from the high druids. But usually..


Dungeon:

Maybe Kythra if she did not have estates but she's not bad anyway.

Academy:

Galib. Not a bad start but I'd rather he had an offensive spell at least.




Just the ones I have comments on:
Dirael can be interesting for creeping and fighting with Imbue Arrow + Rain of Arrows + Wasp Swarm
Kythra is definately more of a castle sitter and for that she is good. I agree Recruitment(for sitter hero) or Diplomacy(for main hero) would have been much better, or Ideally Advanced Leadership with no perk.

Galib again is good for a secondary with just a few level ups to resourcefulness.

The rest I totally agree should be improved.

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted January 16, 2008 07:06 PM

I just don't like this pattern. Many heroes follow a theme(Ellaine with peasant affinity and recruitment, Marbas getting protection because of his special spellbreaking skills or Kythra with gaining money - estates - through minotaur slavery) and heroes are split into main and secondaries. Ideally everyone should be effective as a main. And if a theme is to be used it might as well not detract from the hero's usefulness.
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okrane
okrane


Famous Hero
posted January 16, 2008 07:29 PM
Edited by okrane at 19:32, 16 Jan 2008.

I know what you mean. In a role playing game they would be nice, but for a strategy game, they are really lacking.

I think we should all give suggestions about a mod which will improve these heroes.
Some of my suggestions:


Sylvan:

Dirael: Give her another summoning spell. Like Phantom Forces, or  Summon Hive(she is the swarm queen after all)

Gilraen: Maybe Advanced Leadership in stead, with a easy path to battle commander.

Talanar: I don't know about this one. The ability is what truly breaks him, without having much potential for improvement.

Fortress:

Svea is quite underpowered: Give her Chain Lightning too?

Dungeon:

Yrbeth: Change Dark with summoning, and maybe make her gain much more mana from dark ritual (like 75 mana at level 15 or so)(if it can be moded)

Sorgal: Yeah... not much we can do here. More starting raiders perhaps(if possible)

Kythra: Recruitment in stead of Estates.

Academy:

Narxes: I dunno...

Faiz: Give him Decay as a spell too. He could in theory creep with these.

Necro:

Zoltan: how about Intelligence, or Adv. Enlighment.

Kaspar: All warmachines on him could make him an imba rusher.

Vladimir: a quicker way to haunted mines could be better.  

Lucretia: I find lucretia strong enough.

Haven:

Rutger: he's not that awful. Quick Familiar ground can help ranged creep creeping.

Ellaine: she's fine.

Inferno:

Grawl: How about Advanced Gating and Hell Fire,

Alastor: Basic Gating, Advanced Dark Magic.

Jezebeth: Basic Gating, Mark of the Damned , Basic Attack
         or Alternatively: Basic Gating, Basic Attack, Archery.


Stronghold:

The wyvern tamer: one starting Pao kai, or Foul Wyvern could be really good early on.

Kilghan: i dunno...

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phoenixreborn
phoenixreborn


Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
posted January 16, 2008 07:31 PM

Didn't Zenithale already make this mod in the TOH forum?

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okrane
okrane


Famous Hero
posted January 16, 2008 07:34 PM
Edited by okrane at 19:36, 16 Jan 2008.

where? where?

EDIT: seen it.

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phoenixreborn
phoenixreborn


Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
posted January 16, 2008 07:38 PM

Well is it any good?

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okrane
okrane


Famous Hero
posted January 16, 2008 07:49 PM

pretty much... can't agree with all of them though...

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mamgaeater
mamgaeater


Legendary Hero
Shroud, Flying, Trample, Haste
posted January 16, 2008 09:10 PM

Quote:
that inferno hero who tries to break spells,pathedic.


ahem a 35% chance to resist enemy spells (level 15 and pagic protection.) is quite useful agaisn't acadamy.
at level 30 he has a 50% chance to block spells.
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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted January 16, 2008 10:18 PM

Did not say she was, just that I'd rather she had a more useful perk.
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mamgaeater
mamgaeater


Legendary Hero
Shroud, Flying, Trample, Haste
posted January 17, 2008 12:51 AM

@touro i mean't magic resistance.
if everything he is very good vs magic oriented factions.
i prefer nebiros for his creep.
i think the demon lord alastor is weak and so is vladmir.
raven has fast cold steel and a useful spec.
i beleive talanar to be weak... enraged is a pretty weak spec anyway
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sith_of_ziost
sith_of_ziost


Promising
Supreme Hero
Scouting the Multiverse
posted January 17, 2008 04:00 AM

Quote:
Talanar is a bit mediocre, his special does not offer much.

If they gave him an empowered Enraged.

Quote:
Zoltan is good but arcane intuition..?

Its all because of his ability. He cancels spells in enemy's spellbook if they exist in his. So, Arcan Intuition lets him learn the spells after combat to let his ability go forward. Not to mention there is quite a bit of use to learning their spells early. Also, it works with neutrals too. Dark Magic Galore!

Quote:
Sorgal: Yeah... not much we can do here. More starting raiders perhaps(if possible)

Starting the game with too many riders would make him imba in the beginning.

Quote:
Narxes: I dunno...

Maybe some random Summoning Spell. Like Arcane Crystal or something.

Quote:
Jezebeth: Basic Gating, Mark of the Damned , Basic Attack
        or Alternatively: Basic Gating, Basic Attack, Archery.


Give her Hellfire starting out.

@Good Sir Mamga- Alastor is weak? Sure, Starting with Confusion and thus the ability to disable Marksmen and take them early. sure he's weak. [/verbal irony] I can't believe I am saying this, but Vladimir is weak. Maybe cut the cost? Nebiros is the best demon lord next to Deleb.
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romanov77
romanov77


Known Hero
posted January 17, 2008 06:56 AM

No mentions for Orson??

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pinkspear
pinkspear


Known Hero
Crazy like a fool
posted January 17, 2008 03:54 PM

Orson isn't that bad.

And I don't agree about lucretia. She has very good creeping and turns vamp princes into very effective creeping machines. Also, sorcery gives you mana reg and arcane training, which will come handy until you get enlightenment to boost your knowledge and mana.

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mamgaeater
mamgaeater


Legendary Hero
Shroud, Flying, Trample, Haste
posted January 17, 2008 06:51 PM

Quote:
@Good Sir Mamga- Alastor is weak? Sure, Starting with Confusion and thus the ability to disable Marksmen and take them early. sure he's weak. [/verbal irony] I can't believe I am saying this, but Vladimir is weak. Maybe cut the cost? Nebiros is the best demon lord next to Deleb.


i didn't say nebiros was weak i said he is my preferred choice

Alastor can kill archers early on and then what?
he can disable your foes pit lords?
Vladmir is very weak.
a raise dead spec wastes an offensive spell.
if you get on the defense you often lose.

Deleb is kind of weak.
i mean in the long run her ballistae gets destroyed first turn.
marksmen? no prob. just adjust and you can do it.
i beat over 30 crossbowmen week one with 5 casualties.

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted January 17, 2008 07:02 PM

Quote:
Alastor can kill archers early on and then what?
he can disable your foes pit lords?
Vladmir is very weak.
a raise dead spec wastes an offensive spell.
if you get on the defense you often lose.

Deleb is kind of weak.
i mean in the long run her ballistae gets destroyed first turn.
marksmen? no prob. just adjust and you can do it.
i beat over 30 crossbowmen week one with 5 casualties.

So wrong.. Alastor can ensure your seraphs/druids or whatever won't be able to cast after a mass confusion.
A raise dead special is a good idea, it's the actual boost that is very low and believe me when I say that a good raise dead can give you the game.
Deleb weak = ROTFL She is obviously made for rushing but if the ballista does play first with flaming arrows that's -80 arcane archers. Or dunno how many dragons.
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mamgaeater
mamgaeater


Legendary Hero
Shroud, Flying, Trample, Haste
posted January 17, 2008 07:12 PM
Edited by mamgaeater at 19:13, 17 Jan 2008.

Quote:
So wrong.. Alastor can ensure your seraphs/druids or whatever won't be able to cast after a mass confusion.
A raise dead special is a good idea, it's the actual boost that is very low and believe me when I say that a good raise dead can give you the game.
Deleb weak = ROTFL  She is obviously made for rushing but if the ballista does play first with flaming arrows that's -80 arcane archers. Or dunno how many dragons.


Alastor drain mana isn't very useful.
vermin a measly tier one can counter his ability.
and besides what of the case of zoltan? you get your specialty spell blocked after a cast or two.
besides confusion is pretty weak to start of with.
a cleansing could cure it.

ellaine is not weak. i just get her first and make a gold farm

Deleb is far to weak to be useful.
Her specialty wouldn't be able to even to harm magic resistant foes.
vittirio is far superior.
not only that but people only choose her because she starts with advanced warmachines.
you get three, spellpower 5 fireballs that were easily resisted...
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sith_of_ziost
sith_of_ziost


Promising
Supreme Hero
Scouting the Multiverse
posted January 17, 2008 09:59 PM

Erm, Zoltan is one of the top three necromancers. He only lets his opponents cast the same spell once, then its blocked for the duration of the battle. Against other Necromancers, that's deadly. Against Blessers or Heroes dependent on one DES. Magic spell, its equally deadly. Inferno and Dungeon, not so much. Stronghold not at all. Neither is Fortress. After, they are just specializations. They aren't supposed to be the sole weapon you have. Oh, and Vladimir? Saying that its better to go to damage spells with necromancers is like suggesting Stronghold should go without Blood Rage. Its just not possible. Just pump a bigger bonus into Vladimir and lower the cost by half.
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