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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: Revelution of stronghold and Fortress
Thread: Revelution of stronghold and Fortress [ This thread is 5 pages long: 1 2 3 (4) 5 ]
csarmi
csarmi


Supreme Hero
gets back
posted December 04, 2004 11:08 AM

Now let us see:

Ice Elemental: 3-7 damage (5 avr/6 sp)
Royal Griffin: 3-6 damage, retaliation (4.5 avr/9 sp)
Cerberus: 2-7 damage, no retal (4.5 avr/8 sp)
Iron Golem: 4-5 damage (4.5 avr/5 sp)
Grand Elf: 3-5 damage, ranged, double (4 avr/7 sp)
Wraith: 3-5 damage (4 avr/7 sp)
Evil Eye: 3-5 damage, normal melee (4 avr/7 sp)
Dragon Fly: 2-5 damage (3.5 avr/13 sp)
Orc Chieftain: 2-5 damage (3.5 avr/5 sp)

I think no comment is needed. 8 speed walker with 2-7 damage (8 blessed) and no retaliation. I agree, Grand Elf's special is better. Dragon Fly is faster.

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Nebuka
Nebuka


Promising
Supreme Hero
Save me Jebus!
posted December 04, 2004 06:40 PM
Edited By: Nebuka on 4 Dec 2004

Quote:
Nebuka: in 10vs10 fights, no stats and no splitting included:

AA beats everything - AB only in a close fight
AD loses to AA; defeats anything else - BD's in a close fight
AB loses to AD and Titan close loss against AA, close victory against the dragons; clear win against others

(shall I continue the list - I have the whole championship recorded somewhere )



Actually, would be good to have that list.


As I just tried AA's vs Ancients, and Ancients were victorious, 2 survived.

Might try all combinations.

EDIT: And another actually...ignore my post.

I didn't fought right.
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csarmi
csarmi


Supreme Hero
gets back
posted December 05, 2004 07:38 AM

Another important thing is to keep 0 defense/0 attack on both stacks - the higher the stats are, the better Ancients become.

The fight goes like this:

AA waits, AB defends.
AA attacks, AB retals.
AA attacks ... etc

The list isn't on comp and I might have already thrown it away. I can redo it though. Once I was very bored and I did it for all levels.

1vs1 fights are different, there, for example, AA vs AB is a draw (most of the cases).

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angelito
angelito

Hero of Order
proud father of a princess
posted December 05, 2004 11:59 AM

What i donīt get here is, why do the ABīs always take defense stand? Their big advantage is the 80% defense reduction, so they wonīt use this very well if only attacking when retaliating. The more attacks they do, the higher the chance of winning is.

Or do i miss something here?
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Shenjairo
Shenjairo


Known Hero
Simsalabim
posted December 05, 2004 01:23 PM

I think it's just that the cutoff is a bit early, and that he means it like this:

AA waits, AB defends.
AA attacks, AB retals.
AA attacks AB retals.
AB attacks, AA retals.
AA attacks, AB retals.
AB attacks...etc

Defending the first round since if it has neutral morale there's nothing better to do, and then never got to the part where the AB is active again.

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DzjeeAr
DzjeeAr

Tavern Dweller
posted December 07, 2004 04:21 PM
Edited By: DzjeeAr on 7 Dec 2004

I've held a league a long time ago, 64 heroes, 8 players, each player having 8 heroes, each hero having 500 level 7 creatures from a different town. This was to determine the best level 7 creature when it comes to fair combat ( e.g. when receiving a morale bonus, the creature would take a step back instead of attacking, also no waiting and defending, highest speed attacks first.)

In EACH and EVERY battle the AB came out as the victor, except against one > Titans. And that's simply because titans are able to strike twice without the AB's being able to retaliate ( Titans have the initiative and Behemoths have to take the long walk ). ABs even beat Chaos hydras and Arch Devils with their no retaliation special. Even so, it came out as a nice circle :

AB beats AA
AA beats Titan
Titan beats AB

However, against lower level creatures, all other lvl 7 creatures do more damage then ABs, since ABs special has more effect on high defence levels.

I'm not trying to sound like a know-it-all here, these are simply the results I got from my league. ^_^
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csarmi
csarmi


Supreme Hero
gets back
posted December 07, 2004 06:32 PM
Edited By: csarmi on 7 Dec 2004

That's most likely because your heroes had attack and defense skills and that you did not play well in some of your fights.

Here are the results (100 vs 100, no skills, no stats, optimal play).

Arch Angel:

Ancient Behemoth: +20, Titan: +52, Black Dragon: +54, Gold Dragon: +56, Arch Devil: +66, Chaos Hydra: +76, Ghost Dragon: +82 (6100)

Arch Devil:

Arch Angel: -66 Titan: +40, Black Dragon: +40, Gold Dragon: +47, Ancient Behemoth: +47, Chaos Hydra: +76, Ghost Dragon: +86 (4201)

Ancient Behemoth:

Titan: -78, Arch Devil: -47, Arch Angel: -20, Black Dragon: +32, Gold Dragon: +42, Ghost Dragon: +77, Chaos Hydra: +77 (2212)

Titan:

Arch Angel: -52, Arch Devil: -40, Black Dragon: -14, Gold Dragon: +17, Ghost Dragon: +76, Ancient Behemoth: +78, Chaos Hydra: +92 (3121)

Black Dragon:

Arch Angel: -54, Arch Devil: -40, Ancient Behemoth: -32, Gold Dragon: +11, Titan: +14, Chaos Hydra: +60, Ghost Dragon: +83 (2221)

Gold Dragon:

Arch Angel: -56, Arch Devil: -47, Ancient Behemoth: -42, Titan: -17, Black Dragon: -11, Chaos Hydra: +62, Ghost Dragon: +82 (2032)

Chaos Hydra:

Titan: -92, Ancient Behemoth: -78, Arch Angel: -76, Arch Devil: -76, Gold Dragon: - 62, Black Dragon: -60,
Ghost Dragon: +58 (1006)

Ghost Dragon:

Arch Devil: -86, Black Dragon: -83 Arch Angel: -82, Gold Dragon: -82,  Ancient Behemoth: -76, Titan: -76,    Chaos Hydra: -58 (0007)

I used a simple scoring system.

If a side won with at most 45 creatures left (in other words: it's stack strength decreased to less then 20% of the original value), I called it a close victory. Victories with less than 23 creatures left (5% of origianl strength) should be called super-close victory or even a draw maybe but that would overcomplicate things.

Using this system, the rankings are the following (clear win, close win, close loss, clear loss, points)

1. Arch Angel.....6 1 0 0 20
2. Arch Devil.....4 2 0 1 16
3. Titan..........3 1 2 1 13
4. Black Dragon...2 2 2 1 12
5. Anc. Behemoth..2 2 1 2 11
6. Gold Dragon....2 0 3 2 .9
7. Chaos Hydra....1 0 0 6 .3
8. Ghost Dragon...0 0 0 7 .0

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kwahraps
kwahraps


Adventuring Hero
posted December 07, 2004 07:15 PM

Quote:
This was to determine the best level 7 creature when it comes to fair combat ( e.g. when receiving a morale bonus, the creature would take a step back instead of attacking, also no waiting and defending, highest speed attacks first.)


Not really indicative of actual gameplay, is it???
Most statistics can be tampered with to your own liking.

Yet, we forget the many variables (morale, luck, terrain, and not to mention spells and artifacts) make up combat.  A 1 on 1 level 7 meeting is as unlikely as a 500 vs. 500 level 7 creature meeting.  

What importance do you place on a level 7 creature beating another level 7 creature in solo combat??

Shouldn't we be determining which level 7 creature most complements their own units???  And you're back at square 1.

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csarmi
csarmi


Supreme Hero
gets back
posted December 07, 2004 08:08 PM

Yes Kwahraps. You are right. It has no importancy whatsoever.

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DzjeeAr
DzjeeAr

Tavern Dweller
posted December 07, 2004 11:51 PM

As I said, it was a test I did a long time ago, at which I didn't take note of attack and defence skills of the heroes. I'm only suggesting _I_ think Ancient Behemoths are underrated and more powerfull then Archangels.

Also note, let's say we increase both the creature's attack and defence skills by 6, this would mean the Archangel won't see much difference in the damage it does, but the Behemoth will do more.

Then again, Im a newby so, dont mind me, lol.
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csarmi
csarmi


Supreme Hero
gets back
posted December 07, 2004 11:56 PM

Correct. That's what I told you.

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tigris
tigris


Supreme Hero
Supreme Noobolator
posted December 20, 2004 07:25 AM

i've searched all morning the thread where Angelito decribed the way to use verdish in fights with only one hidra.As i couldn't find it i'll post here to stay ontopic at least.I tried this trick this weekend and i was impressed.I took medium tresureries week 1, also lots basilkis weren't a problem(i can only imagine what is possible with exp. counterstrike), all worked smoothly until...I saw pack thundrbirds guarding celestial necklace of bliss.I had exp slow, so i was mighty confident...19 thunderbirds on 4 stacks;they went straight for the tent.Then, lightning bolt my hidra and i the next minute i was starring helpless at the screen.The problem with this tactics is that the tent is killed very easy(75hp)+verdish was lvl 13 and had the following stats(no arts):1/4/5/7(this is lousy).So anyone has some tips on how to protect that tent?
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Lord_Woock
Lord_Woock


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Daddy Cool with a $90 smile
posted December 20, 2004 04:37 PM

Force field should do nicely.
____________
"Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do."
-- Isaac Asimov

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tigris
tigris


Supreme Hero
Supreme Noobolator
posted December 20, 2004 07:58 PM

I was thinking of that myself.The only problem is that's not something u can get that easy week 1 or 2...I tried tactics skill and some fodders(centaurs with 2 hex)I think it's better and more practical.Still Verdish isn't worth it, he takes way to much knoledge and sp instead of att/deff
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Xarfax111
Xarfax111


Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
The last hero standing
posted December 20, 2004 10:20 PM

What do peeps think will all this LvL7 testing result in?

Thats so plain stupid.

Its plain stupid.

All those creature rankings ...worthless.

Not worth a dime ..or wasting all this time in it.

Thats just for peeps who are unable to see the hole picture. It plain simply shows that they cant see what Heroes 3 is all about.

Sad...after all these years.
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Ste
Ste


Promising
Famous Hero
Passed away
posted December 21, 2004 01:07 AM

Quote:
Thats just for peeps who are unable to see the hole picture. It plain simply shows that they cant see what Heroes 3 is all about.

Sad...after all these years.

And what's te whole picture? What's Heroes 3 all about?
____________
The ultimate WoG tester

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csarmi
csarmi


Supreme Hero
gets back
posted December 21, 2004 09:42 AM

Quote:
What do peeps think will all this LvL7 testing result in?



It does not result in anything. So what?

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LordLazy
LordLazy


Promising
Famous Hero
Wood cleaner
posted December 21, 2004 10:49 AM

I think he means to assume that the tasting is waste of time, and that people testing this have no life


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tigris
tigris


Supreme Hero
Supreme Noobolator
posted December 21, 2004 03:04 PM

C'mon people what's the matter with you?Do you really need a dayly portion of flamming or what? The man did some statistics and that's all there is to it.From this to "not getting the whole picture" is a long way.
Back to the thread: about playing stonghold online: do you guys build the cyclops dwelling at all in an online game( L with no under game for exemple), or you preffer the quick upgrade?(best IMHO)
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Nebuka
Nebuka


Promising
Supreme Hero
Save me Jebus!
posted December 21, 2004 03:29 PM

On Jebus I build them in week 2. Though I usually upgrade behemoths first.
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