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| Thread: Heroes VI - Revising Spell System | |
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TDL
Honorable
Supreme Hero
The weak suffer. I endure.
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posted February 10, 2008 09:00 PM |
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Edited by TDL at 23:09, 12 Feb 2008.
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Heroes VI - Revising Spell System
Project on Halt. Working on a revamp of the spell revision.
As most of you who are reading this thread have already noticed, I have recently begun writing my series of Heroes of Might and Magic related game proposals, analyzing the most intriguing issues of the former game installments and accumulating new innovative ideas. Although the first thread did not receive as much attention as I hoped for, it received as much needed to make some interesting updates with time and to gain a few more ideas. While I basically spoke a little of it in the other thread, time has come to present you with what my confidence and my wits allowed to create. Hence, now, I am starting up the second part of my proposal series: the revision of spell system.
Introduction
How Heroes of Might and Magic games progressed over their 'peak' years was astounding, especially what concerned the magic system. Each time we got a sequel, we were provided with a massive amount of innovative spells, a set of new magic spell schools and a new magic system. While some disliked it and some adored it, each time it was for the better. Constantly looking for the best, game developers managed to gather round all necessary details to make us proud of their work. Yet, each time they tried, we got happier, but with time - even more disappointed (eventually, bored with it) and went looking for something new. My hopes for the sixth installment stay the same: a more balanced, slightly more worked-out system that would allow us to enjoy using magic and tactically use them, while retaining its balancing. And so, here I am with my ideas for a revamp (again).
To start it simply (which I cannot, I would like to merge two systems and make a new, slightly innovative, yet HoM&M-based system. While I generally thought that the former system was extremely well developed, I still tend to think that the system in H4 was much better. The alignment of magic schools to towns (each being unique) not only provides more tactical possibilities, but also more entertainment. Yet, most of the time, this can become repetitive as the spell tree is mostly comprised of twin spells (direct damage, many useless summons) and disrupt the fun. A diverse spell school system increases the amount of spells to cast while still retaining noticeable differences from one another, and that is exactly what I am about to propose.
*(sweating)* Starting the whole explanation is not an easy task. Maybe, for you to be able to read it easier, I will make the whole text a bit shorter than last time, but do not expect a short read. Below you shall find all the material I have gathered so far. Hopefully, additions and comments will come in time.
Distribution of Spell Schools
According to what I want to propose, the magic system (further on, system) might look similar to what we have encountered. The system is to be composed of 5 major spell schools, along with the minor Adventure Magic spell school. As I am primarily not sure of myself when it concerns the "upcoming" factions, I will not include any barbarian-based spells, special abilities or "warcries" in my proposal. Below (if the picture is visible) you will find the distribution table of the spell schools, otherwise - look below.
The primary quintuplet of spell schools is comprised of 5 different spell schools: Arcane, Elemental, Dark, Light and Summoning. While the Adventure Magic school is independent from the major spell schools, I will explain its system later as it contains several new roundabouts. Contrary to what was included in the magic system of the fifth installment, this system is rather loose and does not depend on one type of spells (eg. Dark used to be mostly curses). However, each spell school has a sort of sub-special which links spells to certain spell types (healing spells, blessings, etc.), making it similar to the Master of... effects.
Spell Schools and Sub-Specials
Sub-specials are just another way to call the Master of... effects. However, this time round there is a glitch in my system which cannot be resolved in an instant, but might be resolved if thought over for quite a long amount of time. I know that I'd accept the system as is proposed, but some might not really accept it as it is right now. Anyways, the sub-specials are what divides the school into several areas of spells that allow the addition of mass spells as well as additional effects. However, with the current spell system I propose, it might be more difficult to implement it. However, as you will see later on, based on my spell system, my magic system can work fairly well...
Light Magic:
Light Magic concentrates on magical ways to enhance the army's offensive and defensive capabilities, protect it from negative influence, as well as repel the sieging darkness. While some rely on utilizing benedictions, others tend to secure their armies by casting healing, curing and resurrecting spells to maintain the numbers in the army.
Spell Types: Healing, Blessings, Direct Damage, Resurrection.
School Sub-Specials: Master of Convalescence (Healing, Resurrection), Master of Benediction (Blessings), Master of Divinity (Direct Damage, Blessings).
Dark Magic:
Dark Magic relies on raw darkness that forces hostile foes to succumb under the immeasurable weight of the curses that decreases both offensive and defensive output, making them much more vulnerable. While some like to weaken, others sense the living, concentrating their hatred towards them and harming them from distance, as well as sucking out their life to increase the size of their own army.
Spell Types: Curses, Raising (Necromancy), Direct Damage, Blessings.
School Sub-Specials: Master of Curses (Curses), Master of Occultism (Raising, Blessings), Master of Affliction (Direct Damage, Curses).
Arcane Magic:
Arcane Magic is the most diverse spell school, used by many, yet mastered by few. Varying from blessings to curses involving mind control, as well as duplication spells, this innovative spell school proves useful to both dark and light users that like to control the enemy flanks by bedazzling their mind with uncountable mind spells, illusions and displacing spells.
Spell Types: Curses, Duplication, Illusions, Blessings, Displacement, Mind Control.
School Sub-Specials: Master of Mind (Mind Control, Blessings, Curses), Master of Illusions (Illusions, Duplication), Master of Displacement (Displacement, Blessings).
Summoning Magic:
Summoning Magic is the more peaceful spell school, allowing calmer users to have spells do their bidding. While summoning additional forces into the battlefield, as well as affecting the environment around you, summoners may even call upon the nature to bind the foes in their place.
Spell Types: Creature Summoning, Curses, Direct Damage, Alteration, Object Creation.
School Sub-Specials: Master of Invocation (Object Creation), Master of Conjuration (Creature Summoning), Master of Nature (Direct Damage, Alteration, Curses).
Elemental Magic:
Elemental Magic is the least diverse among spell schools, relying on the raw power to repel the foes. Singeing uncountable damaging spells, elementalists attack the foes with the least tamable power of the four core elements: ice (water), lightning (air), flame (fire) and stone (earth). While mostly damaging their foes from distance, they can also use the elements to create additional blessings and curses to alter the outcome of the battle.
Spell Types: Direct Damage, Curses, Blessings.
School Sub-Specials: Master of Ignition (fire), Master of Tectonics (earth), Master of Storms (lightning), Master of Glaciation (ice).
Spell School Alignment
The spell school alignment section might not accord properly with its title, but it probably is the closest possible naming I thought of. The primary idea of the spell alignment is to link each spell school to a certain faction. However, as factions are yet not known, even more so concerning hero classes and the skill system, it is extremely difficult to properly align certain schools to certain classes/races/factions. This section is primarily my speculation (in general, the whole post is), but it will allow me to explain why or not I chose this or that. Below you will find the list of spell school alignment to classes. However, I not only included favorable possible races and magic types, but also applied certain skill chances aligned with the magic schools.
Warlocks:
Elemental and Arcane
Wizards:
Arcane and Summoning
Knights:
Light and Arcane
Necromancers:
Dark and Summoning
Rangers:
Summoning and Elemental
Daemon Lords:
Dark and Elemental
Warlocks
Warlocks are vile masterminds of the dark. Egocentric by their nature, they pursue their own goals, making themselves negligent of the terrible happenings in the environment, completely withdrawing from the material world until the need is dire. Forming no alliances with the outside world, they primarily reside in empty mountain halls, grottoes or overgrown deadwood forests where they erect magnificient pitch-black spires (both below and above the surface), as dark and as hideous as possible. Twisted by the greed of power and the desire to control the core elements, they strive to perfect themselves and delve into the ancient lore of mastering the elemental magic. Attempting to approach the sources of natural energy, they will stop at nothing to find out the secrets of elementalism and put them to their own use.
Possible Races: Dark Elves and Naga.
Primary Spell School Alignment: Elemental.
Distribution of Magic Skill Chances: Elemental - 65%; Arcane - 20%; Summoning, Light, Dark - 5%.
Mage Guild Alignment: Elemental - levels 1 to 5 (triple more chance of appearing); Arcane - 1-5; Summoning, Light, Dark - 1-2.
Special Features: Can perform Rituals that restore mana; enhance spells with additional elemental effects; can create and manipulate with the elemental chains.
Wizards
Wizards are the masters of magic. Studying the ancient inscriptions left from the times long forgotten, they concentrate their magnetic energies into powerful pools of energy, incapacitating their enemies in a 'delusional' dimension. Floating untouchable in the desert skies above the surface of earth, the wizards perform detailed research into the arcane arts of magic control. The wizards found ways to control the source of arcane magic types of alteration and illusion, while still grasping control over the 'incoherent' (in their terms) magic spell schools.
Possible Races: Humans, Djinn.
Primary Spell School Alignment: Arcane.
Distribution of Magic Skill Chances: Arcane - 50%; Summoning - 20%; Light - 15%; Elemental - 10% Dark - 5%.
Mage Guild Alignment: Arcane - 1-5; Summoning, Light - 1-5; Elemental - 1-3; Dark - 1-2.
Special Features: Can Mark their targets with powerful marks enhancing their enchantments; increased mana pool; can alter planes (planeswalking).
Knights
Knights are noble beloved saviors of the common folk. Standing tall and proud, knights serve their kin as lords, proving their loyalty only to the Church and the Holy Lord and never breaking their oath. Knights are blessed by the angelic beings with enchantments that save them from the corrupt, dark energies that lay around, waiting to cripple one's own mind. Having reached uncountable victories, they are idolized by their fellow army men, followed zealously whereever they go. Always thirsty for honorable needs, knights move into the heat of the battle, vanquishing their foes with their mighty tactics.
Possible Races: Humans.
Primary Spell School Alignment: Light.
Distribution of Magic Skill Chances: Light - 60%; Arcane - 20%; Summoning - 10%; Elemental, Dark - 5%.
Mage Guild Alignment: Light - 1-5; Arcane - 1-5; Summoning (not elven-related) - 1-4; Elemental, Dark - 1-2.
Special Features: Can supress darkness and related effects; receive additional morale boosts; can devastate the undead and the demons.
Necromancers
Necromancers represent the forces of the dead. Towering high above and deep below the barren mounds, their cursed dark mansions surround the land with ghastly spirit. Demoralizing all that stand in their way, the commanders of the undead armies slowly make their way towards the unquenchable power to control all the living. Enchaining the souls of living units, they transform them into mindless beings, controlled by those who managed to save their mind after their own metamorphosis. Feeling no pain, no emotions and no worry, they make formidable enemies to any army, given the fact that most of them rely on unholy magic to vanquish their enemies.
Possible Races: Undead: Zombies, Vampires, Liches, Specters, Mummies.
Primary Spell School Alignment: Dark.
Distribution of Magic Skill Chances: Dark - 60%; Arcane - 20%; Summoning - 10%; Elemental, Light - 5%.
Mage Guild Alignment: Dark - 1-5; Summoning, Arcane - 1-5; Elemental, Light - 1-2.
Special Features: Can raise dead; can restore mana upon the suffering of a friendly stack; can decrease enemy units' morale; can spread plague and decay.
Rangers
Rangers are the guardians of the sacred forests. Hiding in the evergreen shade, rangers look over the land, trying to preserve every inch of their kingdom. Blooming from outside, yet brewing from inside, rangers rely on the help of the nature itself, mustering its magical energies to repel the enemy. Enchanting their weaponry with druidic enchantments, they quickly fling uncountable arrows at their foes, utterly devastating their ranks. While some rely on magic, the others draw their energy from the druid stones, summoning additional reinforcements to the army at every step.
Possible Races: Elves.
Primary Spell School Alignment: Summoning.
Distribution of Magic Skill Chances: Summoning - 55%; Elemental - 25%; Light - 10%; Arcane, Dark - 5%.
Mage Guild Alignment: Summoning - 1-5; Elemental (earth) - 1-5; Elemental (all) - 1-4; Light - 1-3; Dark, Arcane - 1-2.
Special Features: Can imbue arrows, weapons with magical spells; may summon units and additional reinforcements while not in battle; can use nature magic.
Daemon Lords
Daemon Lords are the root of all evil. Living in the infernal plane, these vile 'heroes' control the armies of hell. Constantly storming the earthly plane, demon lords seek to destroy the world. Using the chaotic element of fire and the darkness they were made of, demon lords lay waste to everything above the surface. Grasping the fiery chasms under their command, they use the infernal volcanic ridges to torture their enemies, forcing them to betray the weakest spots for the demon lords to rush. The tormented, however, are not released and instead they are forced to become minions of the endless infernal armies.
Possible Races: Demons.
Primary Spell School Alignment: Dark/Elemental.
Distribution of Magic Skill Chances: Dark - 45%; Elemental - 40%; Summoning, Light, Arcane - 5%.
Mage Guild Alignment: Dark - 1-5 (may not use raising spells); Elemental (fire) - 1-5; Elemental (all) - 1-3; Light, Summoning, Arcane - 1-2.
Special Features: Can torment enemy units; may summon reinforcements into battlefield; heavily afflicted to elemental fire magic.
As you may have noticed I included a part called 'Special Features' under each class. This is a step towards the final, the 3rd, part of my proposals which I may publish in a month's time, depending on free time. The third part will more or less be a speculation, rather than a proposal, although it can be considered both.
Systematics of Adventure Magic
While we only had one instance per se how Adventure Magic was a standalone magic type, I believe that opting it out would be a bad decision. However, how it was portrayed in the fifth installment, Adventure Magic was incomplete. By incomplete I mean that it lacked diversity and was too simple. In my opinion, there are two possibilities how the systematics of Adventure Magic may be redone: a) additional spells, b) unique faction- or class-based spells or c) merging of spell schools and Adventure Magic. I will try to work on each of these sections separately, so you will be able to perceive the difference between each of them.
The first system of Adventure Magic is fairly simple, basically the good-ol' Heroes 5 system updated. In the game, we had four primary spells possible to acquire from level 1, 10, 15, 20: Vessel of Shalassa (Summon Boat), Summon Creatures (Reinforcements), Instant Travel and Town Portal. Of these simple 4 spells the whole system was comprised. However, these few spells are surely not enough if we want to see Adventure Magic occupy a steady spot in the future installments. Below you will find several spells I thought of (or copied from other Heroes games) that could make it and possibly compete with the existing ones.
Shroud of Darkness: This spell requires level 10 hero to be learned. The hero summons a dark shroud that encircles the Adventure Map in a mist. Enemies will have the Adventure Map covered with shroud up to 10-20 tiles away from the casting hero.
Create Illusion: This spell requires level 10 hero to be learned. The hero casts an illusion on the selected area of the Adventure Map within 10 tiles away from him. All enemy heroes see an impassable obstacle in the selected area (forest, tree, mountains, etc.) and cannot pass it until the effect wears off or has immunity against these spells. Drains hero's movement points.
Hideous Fog: This spell requires level 15 hero to be learned. The hero shrouds the land in a fog, hiding all neutral creatures within the selected area from the sight of the enemy. Lasts until the end of the week, but only appears in a specified location.
Entrap: This spell requires level 5 hero to be learned. The hero may place several traps on the land as he goes, invisible to the enemy heroes. Enemy heroes who step on the trap lose half the remaining movement points. Traps only work for one day and may only be cast once per day.
Aura of Mobility: This spell requires level 15 hero to be learned. The hero amasses the power of nature, bestowing it upon its fellow army men, relieving their fatigue. As long as the hero is on a favored terrain, it either suffers no movement penalties or gains additional movement points.
Water Walk: This spell requires level 20 hero to be learned. The hero may walk over water. However, the movement point cost is increased and the hero must stand on land at the end of the turn for the spell effect to take place.
Those are but a few minor spells I thought of. While we can all remember stealth effects, view mines, view air, visions, disguise and other spells, they are sure as hell necessary if the Adventure Magic is to be reincorporated. Besides, Adventure Magic should even have its effects increased (ie. removed penalty for water walking, increased mobility with the aura, increased spell duration, etc.), but not via a certain secondary skill. It would rather be better if there were some special in-town structures, adventure map locations or artifacts that would help in doing so.
The second system is not quite unique and can possibly be merged with the first proposal here. However, it works slightly differently. Instead of purposefully adding additional spells to the Adventure Magic spell list, it adds unique Adventure Magic spells to corresponding mage guilds. Say, the mage guild of Necropolis: you buy it and instead of finding Summon Boat or another spell, you find, say, Shroud of Darkness. The spell cannot be acquired in any other town but Necropolis. It could also be possible to have these spells belong to certain classes rather than Necropolis itself. For example, the current list of spells above. It could be rearranged so that it belongs to certain factions/classes.
Undead (Necropolis):
Shroud of Darkness
Magi (Academy):
Create Illusion
Elves (Forest):
Entrap
Warlocks (Dungeon):
Hideous Fog, Water Walk
Knights (Haven):
Aura of Mobility
This is but a few of them apparently. There could be way more and most would fit the factions/classes even more concept-wise. The only difficulty when attempting to find these Adventure Magic spells is the lack of knowledge of what factions will make it to the next installment. To clear this up, below you will find some more possibilities:
Elven Sight: This spell requires level 10 hero to be learned. Elven Rangers may feel the presence of darkness, revealing the location of dark-aligned neutral creatures. While it may be more difficult to sense the presence of dark-aligned towns on the map, it may also be possible if the town is weaker.
Flaming Trail: This spell requires level 15 hero to be learned. Whenever the Demon Lord's army reaches a high enough power rating to set a trail beneath its feet, it leaves a flaming trail that if a combat is taking place, will enhance the opposing force to the enemy heroes with the ability to deal additional fire damage. Double damage to good-aligned creatures.
Aura of Light: This spell requires level 10 hero to be learned. Knights repel the darkness shrouding their lands. By casting the spell, they disable the possible effects of Shroud of Darkness as well as increase the scouting radius for one turn. Uses up majority of hero's movement points.
Earthen Barrier: This spell requires level 5 hero to be learned. Warlocks can evade their enemies by forming a rock barrier behind themselves. The rock barrier has a certain size, however, thus, the barrier does not always help.
The third system is actually more or less more magic-based, thus it removes the boundaries that separated major spell schools from Adventure Magic. Basically, the idea revolves around the possibility to obtain additional Adventure Magic spells from certainly aligned mage guilds with corresponding spells available. This means that if you get Academy aligned to Arcane magic and you find, for example, Create Illusion, in the mage guild, you will be able to learn and cast it, provided you have the necessary level prerequisites. The frequency of spells in mage guilds would depend on the faction class skill appearance rate as well as spell alignment. Say, we had to sort the spells I proposed you to aforementioned spell schools. Below you will find how I perceive the whole situation (however, remember that some spells are listed twice just because it can belong to either according to the concept of the spell).
Arcane Magic:
Create Illusion, Hideous Fog
Summoning Magic:
Entrap, Hideous Fog
Elemental Magic:
Water Walk, Hideous Fog, Flaming Trail
Dark Magic:
Shroud of Darkness
Light Magic:
Aura of Mobility, Water Walk
I might have sounded all gibberish here, but I hope you understood the basic ideas. It is up to you how you would like a certain system, but these three possibilities are the best and I think that each of them would make a nice Adventure Magic system.
Spell Tree
This is the section where I am going to post the spells. Possibly the section the readers are awaiting the most, the spell tree will include all basic spell ideas according to spell schools proposed. It will not include any additional spells like the ones that may control weather (view Heroes VI - Battlefield Issues), Adventure Magic spells or anything else unrelated.
TEASER: Each spell school will have 15-20 spells, organized into special sub-special categories depending on type. Not all of the spells, however, would fit the categories, hence, they might be standalone in the list. The full list will take approximately a week to make but I hope to receive some comments on what is proposed this far.
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Andrelvis
Adventuring Hero
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posted February 10, 2008 10:21 PM |
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Very good and thoroughly explained post! As for the Adventure Magic spells, my preference would be the third system, but the first system is fine too.
Your division of the schools is sound, but I dislike grouping the elemental spells together, the same school comprising of magics of opposite elements seems strange, besides, if it uses the same skill system as with traditional Homm, then that would mean that the same skill that serves to boost water magic would boost fire magic. For example, in the Inferno town there is a great predominance of the fire element, mastering that element shouldn't make it easier to master water too, in fact, it should make it much harder. Bonus points for the Arcane school, it helps solve the problem of spells that don't fit in standard schools in a nice way.
P.S.: The image at the start of the post isn't opening, at least for me.
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TDL
Honorable
Supreme Hero
The weak suffer. I endure.
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posted February 10, 2008 10:28 PM |
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Edited by TDL at 22:28, 10 Feb 2008.
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Quote:
Your division of the schools is sound, but I dislike grouping the elemental spells together, the same school comprising of magics of opposite elements seems strange, besides, if it uses the same skill system as with traditional Homm, then that would mean that the same skill that serves to boost water magic would boost fire magic. For example, in the Inferno town there is a great predominance of the fire element, mastering that element shouldn't make it easier to master water too, in fact, it should make it much harder. Bonus points for the Arcane school, it helps solve the problem of spells that don't fit in standard schools in a nice way.
Basically, if we take a look at the current destructive magic skill, it is exactly the same as elemental magic, just revamped, renamed and with a few new ideas. Besides, inferno, if you have noticed, receives a bonus on fire magic (demon lords), while neglecting on the usage of other elements.
That is basically the problem in logics and I have to agree, but separating all the elemental magic types into schools is abhorrent to what HoMM magic system should be like - it would simply form TOO many spell schools. Unless, of course, you would like to find a NWN-based system... Many schools, many branches, many different aspects to master without grouping.
P.S. it is not meant to open as of yet, cause it is yet not uploaded 
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Andrelvis
Adventuring Hero
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posted February 10, 2008 10:46 PM |
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Quote:
Basically, if we take a look at the current destructive magic skill, it is exactly the same as elemental magic, just revamped, renamed and with a few new ideas. Besides, inferno, if you have noticed, receives a bonus on fire magic (demon lords), while neglecting on the usage of other elements.
It is true that the spells in the current destruction and the proposed elemental school would be mostly the same, however the destruction school gives more cohesion to the grouping of spells, as they are similar in function, and excludes non-destructive spells from the school (HoMM 3's Quicksand for example, I believe would be placed in the summoning school if it were added to HoMM 5, and it has the strong presence of the Earth element).
Quote:
That is basically the problem in logics and I have to agree, but separating all the elemental magic types into schools is abhorrent to what HoMM magic system should be like - it would simply form TOO many spell schools. Unless, of course, you would like to find a NWN-based system... Many schools, many branches, many different aspects to master without grouping.
That might be the best grouping of spells, if it were not for that it perhaps will overcomplicate the system.
Quote:
P.S. it is not meant to open as of yet, cause it is yet not uploaded
Oh 
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TDL
Honorable
Supreme Hero
The weak suffer. I endure.
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posted February 10, 2008 10:48 PM |
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I think you will understand why I chose this or that and why this belongs there when I post the spells  Just wait
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Andrelvis
Adventuring Hero
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posted February 10, 2008 10:52 PM |
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Okay
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted February 10, 2008 11:14 PM |
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A brief note for you, TDL: Less is more.
Contemplate on that. 
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TDL
Honorable
Supreme Hero
The weak suffer. I endure.
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posted February 10, 2008 11:24 PM |
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Quote:
A brief note for you, TDL: Less is more.
Contemplate on that.
Depends on what the writer wants to explain by that Everyone chooses his own way of presenting things I cannot shorten my posts as I lose interest in writing them Simple and self-explanatory
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BAD
Promising
Known Hero
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posted February 11, 2008 01:09 AM |
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Edited by BAD at 01:09, 11 Feb 2008.
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I like most part of this post. 
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted February 11, 2008 01:18 AM |
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A well thought-out system, but I'm not sure about it. I've come up with a system of my own which is basically two schools overlapping, one the traditional elemental schools (Earth, Air, Fire Water), the other the effect school (Summoning, Blessing, Cursing, Damaging), but with Adventure map spells in a separate school (possibly). In this way, heroes learn the effect schools, but towns are inclined towards elemental schools, so while a Inferno hero could cast a good water blessing spell (Mirth), he'd (she'd) be much more likely to use a fire damaging spell (Fireball).
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Moonlith
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
If all else fails, use Fiyah!
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posted February 11, 2008 02:08 AM |
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Dammit....
You got me to think now. Indeed mind affecting spells fit Arcane better than Dark. Something I should consider if I want to revise my own magic system. For which I should make an open topic soon enough to lay out the finer details just like you did
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted February 11, 2008 07:21 AM |
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Ok I'm going to be a bit brutal here, don't hate me for it. But haven't you written a whole novel just to present to us again the Heroes 5 Magic system - only with a few more spells added?
EDIT > Guess I'm putting on my Simon Cowell mantle again, now that people are starting posting in the Altar.
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TDL
Honorable
Supreme Hero
The weak suffer. I endure.
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posted February 11, 2008 07:29 AM |
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Edited by TDL at 07:30, 11 Feb 2008.
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Frankly, it is much different from the current H5 system, in case you did not notice. The system leans much more towards the H4 system in general, but it adds the Mastery effects from H5. The system basically revolves around splitting the existing spell schools into what they should belong.
While I could have chosen to work on a nwn-, spellforce- based magic system, I worked on a system that would revamp the good features of H5 and remove what should not have been in H5.
How spells are redistributed will differ as well.
To be a bit snappy, just for the sake of it, I will ask you: why did the others notice the differences and you didn't?
EDIT: I take it you do not read the text in between, stating HALF of this is just a speculation and is a mere proposal RATHER than what would make to the actual spell school system.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted February 11, 2008 09:08 AM |
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Now I know what I said was a bit provocative, but I actually don't see the huge difference. Not that your suggestion is bad at all, I like the Heroes 5 system a lot, I just don't see that much of a revolution. Let me state my point:
Your system Light Magic: Healing, Blessings, Direct Damage, Resurrection.
Heroes 5 Light Magic: Healing, Blessings, Direct Damage, Resurrection, (Displacment).
Your system Dark Magic: Curses, Raising (Necromancy), Direct Damage, Blessings.
Heroes 5 Dark Magic: Curses, Direct Damage, Mind Control, (Blessings).
Your system Arcane Magic: Curses, Duplication, Illusions, Blessings, Displacement, Mind Control.
Your system Summoning Magic: Creature Summoning, Curses, Direct Damage, Alteration, Object Creation.
Heroes 5 Summoning Magic: Duplication, Creature Summoning, Object Creation, Direct Damage, (Illusion, Raising).
Your system Elemental Magic: Direct Damage, Curses, Blessings.
Heroes 5 Destructive Magic: Direct Damage.
So yes, there are some spells that are moved - Displacement is taken from Light Magic into Arcane, Raising is taken from Summoning into Dark, Blessings and Curses are more widely distributed, and Summoning is now separated into two schools. But apart from these details, overall I don't see that many changes - but then, maybe I simply miss something?
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TDL
Honorable
Supreme Hero
The weak suffer. I endure.
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posted February 11, 2008 02:41 PM |
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Quote:
Now I know what I said was a bit provocative, but I actually don't see the huge difference. Not that your suggestion is bad at all, I like the Heroes 5 system a lot, I just don't see that much of a revolution. Let me state my point:
Your system Light Magic: Healing, Blessings, Direct Damage, Resurrection.
Heroes 5 Light Magic: Healing, Blessings, Direct Damage, Resurrection, (Displacment).
Your system Dark Magic: Curses, Raising (Necromancy), Direct Damage, Blessings.
Heroes 5 Dark Magic: Curses, Direct Damage, Mind Control, (Blessings).
Your system Arcane Magic: Curses, Duplication, Illusions, Blessings, Displacement, Mind Control.
Your system Summoning Magic: Creature Summoning, Curses, Direct Damage, Alteration, Object Creation.
Heroes 5 Summoning Magic: Duplication, Creature Summoning, Object Creation, Direct Damage, (Illusion, Raising).
Your system Elemental Magic: Direct Damage, Curses, Blessings.
Heroes 5 Destructive Magic: Direct Damage.
So yes, there are some spells that are moved - Displacement is taken from Light Magic into Arcane, Raising is taken from Summoning into Dark, Blessings and Curses are more widely distributed, and Summoning is now separated into two schools. But apart from these details, overall I don't see that many changes - but then, maybe I simply miss something?
Why revolutionize when you can revise the current system into a better one?
The changes will probably be noticeable in your case only once I add the spells. When I come to think of it, how I described the system might have given you the wrong idea. What you posted above does not reflect the exact spell system as it is.
But, in other news, I am thinking of a new idea  When I mentioned the NWN system, I thought of a totally new idea for the spell system. I am thinking whether I should collaborate on it in this thread or make a new one, but I will think about it later. For now, I am simply too lazy to do it XD
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted February 11, 2008 06:23 PM |
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Quote:
Why revolutionize when you can revise the current system into a better one?
Agreed 100 %. If it works, don't fix it.
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Andrelvis
Adventuring Hero
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posted February 11, 2008 08:51 PM |
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Just to note something I haven't seen being said: the magic system in HoMM IV is identical to the Magic: The Gathering mana/magic scheme. Even the compatibilities are equal, Life (white mana) has annexes of Order (blue) and Nature (green).
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Moonlith
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
If all else fails, use Fiyah!
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posted February 13, 2008 02:08 AM |
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Quote:
Agreed 100 %. If it works, don't fix it.
Psh, and you dare to bash me for working off on Heroes 3
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted February 13, 2008 07:20 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Agreed 100 %. If it works, don't fix it.
Psh, and you dare to bash me for working off on Heroes 3
Yes, because Heroes 6 is a natural extension of Heroes 5, not Heroes 3.
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