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| Thread: Balance Mod for ToE - post your opinions here |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · NEXT» |
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okrane
Famous Hero
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posted February 15, 2008 11:16 AM |
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Balance Mod for ToE - post your opinions here
After seeing that almost everyone here believes that there are factions clearly overpowered and some underpowered, it is clear that at least a balance patch is needed. As Nival are taking their time with this we are still stuck in playing the same game and taking advantage of the same abuses in order to win.
This can be changed. A mod can be easily made in order to try and make all factions on par, and increase competitiveness among players. Some of the things that need addressing are:
*** Buff the early game of might factions
*** Buff the end game of magic factions
*** Increase the effectiveness of underpowered heroes
*** Remove some useless perks from the skillwheel in order to avoid flooding. Or better yet, redo some parts of the wheel to insure multiple valid strategies
*** Balance Alternate Upgrades with the Original ones so there is never a completely clear choice between them, or at least so that there are different situations where a certain upgrade would be preferred to the other.
These are just main traits I came up with. Now, this is most importantly a team project, and advices of pro players in different races are direly needed.
The main thing about a patch like this is to be generally accepted, like Equilibris for H4. Maybe the new clan seasons can play using this new mod.
So anyway, post your ideas here and we can improve the gameplay experience of Heroes 5.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted February 15, 2008 12:55 PM |
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This belongs in Modder's Workshop, and I will move thread there shortly.
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What will happen now?
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radar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Castle/Haven player
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posted February 15, 2008 02:13 PM |
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Please leave it as it is Alci. Far more people look through the Temple of Ashan and right here are discussed main game balance issues.
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unixmage
Known Hero
Demon Slayer
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posted February 15, 2008 07:01 PM |
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He's right. I wouldn't have seen this thread if it had been moved.
I think balancing the heroes and tweaking their starting skills should be priority #1.
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phoenixreborn
Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
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posted February 15, 2008 07:24 PM |
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Actually shouldn't it go in the TOH subforum?
I guess that a balance mod would be chiefly aimed at MP.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted February 15, 2008 07:53 PM |
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I for one could offer little advice because I don't specialize in any factions and the game has a delicate balance. Suppose you buff the crossbowmen initiative then you face a world of pain when you fight them as neutrals. While I maintain a good level with about 40 online games there are guys with over 100, I can't match their experience.
Anyway I'd give it some time to see what the next patch will do..
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Orodruin
Adventuring Hero
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posted February 15, 2008 08:09 PM |
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Edited by Orodruin at 20:10, 15 Feb 2008.
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Aparently, I'm one of the first to post the ideas.
Well okrane, I think there are many things that could be changed or taken out of the game, here are some of them.
Sylvan's Nature's Luck could use another requirement but not luck, since luck will be a totally useless skill.
Archangels ressurection could be a spell, and not an ability (you see it makes a lot of diference).
Barbarian's Shatter magic skils are too aleatory, you've got to know your enemy a lot before knowing which one to pick up. I suggest one that is more general.
Frenzy should be in the category of mind affecting spells, 'cause in my point of view it drives its target crazy, confusing the mind. And I would make it dispellable.
Succubus mistress are way too much pervert and se... (ups, not this one) 
Dyrael specialty sucks (come on, wasp swarm might reduce target's ATB value, bar it's useless compared to other spells).
Silent stalker perk does not trigger against AI. They will ever know wich creatures you have.
No comments are needed for Recruitment perk I believe.
Familiar's mana stealing is unfair in great numbers (and it's not hard to breed them). The wisest of wizards lose their entire mana for those nasty little buggers.
No comments for navigation as well,except that it could be more efective, like: "increases heroe movement speed at sea by 50% and reduces mana cost for summoning boats", for example.
Now it's your turn guys.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted February 15, 2008 08:25 PM |
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Nature's Luck is outrageous no matter how many skills you waste, besides you still get to use elven luck and its perks.
Archangels ressurection being a spell would make it a lot less effective both due to the reducing logarithmic formula and the 10% penalty to hp..
Barbarian's Shatter is fine, they would be broken if they all were under one skill. With the current system that is.
Silent stalker still gives an insane viewing radius and informs you of the neutrals' mood. Pretty important I'd say.
Anyway my main gripes are of course the starting heroes and some alternatives not being balanced with each other. I guess sylvan's lategame is a concern.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Orodruin
Adventuring Hero
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posted February 15, 2008 08:39 PM |
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You're right about certain things, but for me there are some that really needed fixing. You see, some abilities might be good or work for something, but they DO NOT work for everything they meant to be. For example Silent stalker is good for creeping, but it needs to affect AI as well. Of course it's my point of view, some Heroes player's might not even bother with that.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted February 15, 2008 08:41 PM |
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It's more like there is little to be done with the current AI and there are no plans to fix it. The AI would still attack you on sight because it tends to have larger and upgraded armies.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Orodruin
Adventuring Hero
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posted February 15, 2008 08:49 PM |
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Edited by Orodruin at 20:50, 15 Feb 2008.
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Sometimes AI appears in the map (dragon pass if right i am) with more than a hundred high tier creatures where it would be impossible, could that be a bug, my version is 3.0. By the way, are there too many bugs to be fixed?
ps: sorry for the off-topic like post
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted February 15, 2008 08:53 PM |
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Edited by Elvin at 20:53, 15 Feb 2008.
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Those there are are not disruptive to gameplay. There may be a couple major ones but not the type you encounter in most games. I think there is an exploit with vampirism and phantom forces.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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yasmiel
Supreme Hero
Former Chessmaster
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posted February 15, 2008 08:54 PM |
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Edited by yasmiel at 20:56, 15 Feb 2008.
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While the general idea is good, I'm afraid this will just make a mess. Some will like the changes, some will not. Then we will have ppl with essentialy 2 different games refusing to play the other half which uses different "version". Same happened once ppl realised they can edit variables in heroes 3 game. In the end everyone could have their own game but for the sake of keeping some competition alive the original/plain/basic/3d0 version of the stats is used.
So, this won't work. Unless the changes are made official in a 3.1 patch. I would suggest making a list and try to squeeze it to nival in hope that at least some of issues will be adressed in a patch. Any unoficial "balance mod" is doomed to fail in a game with small community with suprisingly big diferences in thinking.
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Cepheus
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
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posted February 15, 2008 08:59 PM |
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Also there's only so much a mod can do: it's possible to edit stats, a few variables and such but changing skills / artifacts / specialties are only a few things which are completely impossible right now outside of Nival.
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okrane
Famous Hero
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posted February 15, 2008 09:23 PM |
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Edited by okrane at 21:37, 15 Feb 2008.
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Well, as 3.0 is out for about 6 months and no patches, I doubt that Nival/Ubi care too much about the balance of this game.
The important thing is to ge the community to agree, just like we all agreed upon Equilibris.
So basically there are 2 ways to do this:
1) All clan based games could be played strictly with this mod. That way a part of the community has to agree about it.
2) All map makers include this mod into their maps. So if you wanna play these maps, you play with the new balance rules.
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Orodruin
Adventuring Hero
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posted February 15, 2008 09:25 PM |
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@okrane
Those could work goof, best the second one.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted February 15, 2008 09:28 PM |
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Nival has nothing to do with that, ubi delayed to address the chinese version if memory serves.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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okrane
Famous Hero
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posted February 15, 2008 09:37 PM |
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ok ... the result is the same, no matter the causes imo...
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Cepheus
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
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posted February 15, 2008 09:43 PM |
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Let's try to go through what can and can't be done then...
Quote:
Sylvan's Nature's Luck could use another requirement but not luck, since luck will be a totally useless skill.
Possible.
Quote:
Archangels ressurection could be a spell, and not an ability (you see it makes a lot of diference).
Possible.
Quote:
Barbarian's Shatter magic skils are too aleatory, you've got to know your enemy a lot before knowing which one to pick up. I suggest one that is more general.
Impossible.
Quote:
Frenzy should be in the category of mind affecting spells, 'cause in my point of view it drives its target crazy, confusing the mind. And I would make it dispellable.
Most likely impossible.
Quote:
Succubus mistress are way too much pervert and se... (ups, not this one)
*cough*
Quote:
Dyrael specialty sucks (come on, wasp swarm might reduce target's ATB value, bar it's useless compared to other spells).
Impossible, unless changing the specialty with another is an option.
Quote:
Silent stalker perk does not trigger against AI. They will ever know wich creatures you have.
Can't be fixed.
Quote:
No comments are needed for Recruitment perk I believe.
Eh?
Quote:
Familiar's mana stealing is unfair in great numbers (and it's not hard to breed them). The wisest of wizards lose their entire mana for those nasty little buggers.
Can be removed.
Quote:
No comments for navigation as well,except that it could be more efective, like: "increases heroe movement speed at sea by 50% and reduces mana cost for summoning boats", for example.
Impossible.
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"Those who forget their history are inevitably doomed to repeat it." —Proverb, Might and Magic VIII
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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted February 15, 2008 09:48 PM |
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The idea of a community-wide mod is good but I shouldn't start it before you are sure the developers are finished with it. This game is not released for 6 months. It is released for 4 months in western europe and a lot of countries got it much later. You say the developers don't care for balance but they do. According to the interview with Fabrice Cambounet there is a balance patch coming.
The problem is when you start it now and they come up with a patch that makes a similar change as the introduction of dark energy you can start the work all over again. In first place because you have to redo all the .xdb file changes in the new versions and second place because the balance between factions may have changed so much that everyone, even the most experienced player, need to replay the game a lot to have a clear view on the renewed balance.
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