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| Thread: Balance Mod for ToE - post your opinions here |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · «PREV |
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okrane
Famous Hero
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posted February 20, 2008 05:16 PM |
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Honestly I think magmas are too good to sacrifice in order to get these.
40 Defense for a unit is Huge. Plus, the magma shield makes the enemy think twice before attacking them.
Add preparation to this and the enemy will soon type gg...
Normally due to the low init of magmas and fortress in general you will not be charging the enemy. So killing the archers this way is usually not an option.
However its' best to resist the charge of faster factions like Sylvan or Haven with the toughest unit out there: the magmas.
Thus, I'm still not convinced magmaeater...
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted February 20, 2008 07:05 PM |
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Edited by TheDeath at 19:14, 20 Feb 2008.
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Me neither, and with some maths, you'll see why the Magma Dragon, yep, it's overpowered. Hint: just use the Defense formula and compare it with others to see how much it 'absorbs' (not to mention Magma Shield). In conclusion I think the +10 defense shouldn't even be there. Don't trust me, trust math 
(btw Blood Witches are MUCH better than Furies, mathematically wise, since you count initiative as "x%" instead of "2 points" if you want to do it correctly, and you'll see the difference in percent is small compared to the HP difference percent).
so... Lava Dragon is good, Magma needs a nerf.
EDIT: oops, made a typo, wrote Fire instead of Lava
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted February 20, 2008 07:09 PM |
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You trust maths in a heroes game?
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted February 20, 2008 07:12 PM |
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For creatures, usually, because creatures should be balanced between each other (i.e: no taking into consideration Heroes), because neutrals don't have heroes.
For example, if a creature does 1-5 damage, and the other does 1-4 damage and has +15 defense (this is an example, not actual), and cost the same, I think math tells us which is overpowered.
And Magma Shield isn't a weak ability either (to explain the huge defense boost)
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted February 20, 2008 07:15 PM |
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I know, I was kidding  I was making fun of the fact that blood witches are the mathematically correct version yet furies are more useful for most of the time.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted February 20, 2008 07:22 PM |
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There is no doubt Magma Dragons are formidable, and probably the much superior choice. However, if you focus on a very offensive style of play (not very common with Fortress, but if) then Lavas make sense - after all, why say no to the extra damage, if you don't plan to have your creatures absorp a lot of damage? That being said, another point of Initiative would make them a more likely choice.
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What will happen now?
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted February 20, 2008 07:27 PM |
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Quote:
I know, I was kidding I was making fun of the fact that blood witches are the mathematically correct version yet furies are more useful for most of the time.
Well of course there are strategical differences between the two, but on average I think the Blood Witch is better (but then, if we're talking about creeping, I think shooters are way better, but that's no reason to nerf them even more, is it?  ).
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okrane
Famous Hero
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posted February 20, 2008 07:43 PM |
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Edited by okrane at 19:45, 20 Feb 2008.
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Quote:
(btw Blood Witches are MUCH better than Furies, mathematically wise, since you count initiative as "x%" instead of "2 points" if you want to do it correctly, and you'll see the difference in percent is small compared to the HP difference percent).
Actually the way you look at it is model dependant.
If you take into account that they die in one hit, end-game, then 2 extra init can mean that they act before those strong stacks(emeralds, nighmares, sprites, wardancers) and that they get at least one action.
For creeping the same arguement apply. If your furies get hit, it means you are doing something wrong. So the +2 init is much more crucial for moving around and positioning than it is for sheer damage/killing.
OTOH as I said, in creeping the survivability of the furies is irelevant...
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Asco
Tavern Dweller
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posted October 01, 2008 12:32 AM |
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Goblin's overpowered SET SNARES
As a subject says I think goblin traper and his ability to set snare is a very unbalanced game element.
Why?
It is really useful especially just in the beginning of a game. I'd say much to useful.
Say it's 2nd week, you get goblins upgraded to trappers.
Upgr Centaurs naturally and we can discover the world.
In this combination ... say 50 centaurs and 110 goblins we can easily fight against non-flying units with challanging or even high difficulty.
The manual formula says, that even with a stack of 1 goblin we have 15% to stop the enemy from attacking us? Why?
5% for stop
5% for 1 tile shortage
5% for 2 tile shortage
No matter which of those 3 would go off, we do not get attacked.
Having 5 stacks x 1 goblin, 1 stack x 105 goblins and 1 stack x 50 centaures, we can beat easily every non-flying units guarding starting mines. This is extremely effective against non flying, large unit where we can use the 1 unit stack to block the opponent.
This may not convience you, so I'll gladly make some other arguments
Computer's default AI is .... well is as it is and we all know it
We have centaurs, so enemy stacks would not use their maximum speed values, because the prefair to stay in broken arrow range. Computer's AI oftenly uses 2 actions to get in a place, where it could be in one action. We can manuver the enemy stack by putting forward our 1 tier stack (which usually has a nice attack power in a beginning as it's number is vast). This frightens enemy from getting closer. As you all know, there are diffrent ways to postpone the enemy from getting to our shooter. Combining them with traper's snares it may enlarge the enemy's action number from... 2 to 5 or 6. If you mix that with punder and powerful blow you can get a deathbringing solution.
But nevermind about the punder.
The overpowering problem is highlighted by this AI, which usually makes its move no to come too close (they usually make their attacks when ypu are in the range, but as far as possible).
Complicated, so I'll give an example
Enemy stack with 6 speed will (in most cases) attack, when you are in a 6 tiles range (not 5 or 4). He would not go closer, because he thinks it's not necessary. Well here comes gobline, who has minimum 15% (with 1 unit goblin stack) to break his plans and give his centaur another action (or even 2) to strike him down (probably with straight arrow). I'll tell you it's a lot. Hundrets of zombies certainly would support me
There are many reasons to tell, hopefully you'll find them by yourself. From my side I can only tell, that there is no other fraction that can so easily find a recipe to beat much more powerful stacks. And I play this game long enough to say it reliably.
My solution is simple.
To allow the possible outcomes fall to 0
0/0/0/100
stop/1 tile/2 tiles/miss
Or..... Make the trap a special move, that can be used once in a battle. Cause I really think it is such good skill, that it should be reduced to one use only.
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Nebdar
Promising
Supreme Hero
Generation N
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posted October 01, 2008 03:02 PM |
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@Asco Thanx for finding and reviving of this thread i was just thinking about this and making patch for patch 3.1. I don't know about your proposal, i will have to take close look to Stronghold faction(i haven't played enough)
@To Moderator/s who moved this thred here Why 
Why not here please read first pages post. Back then Alci wanted to move this thread here but some HC members made good point why not to do such thing and i agree with them.
There should be two same thread one in ToA about what and how to change, and in MW about actuall work about those mods.
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asco
Tavern Dweller
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posted October 02, 2008 01:04 AM |
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@Nedbar
Writing this post was really bit risky from my side, cause I really want some other players to discuss this problem. Since that thread is not a very popular one, I'd like some important dudes here (don't know them yet) to attract other players' attention to this post. Or... If that is not going to happen I'll try to find some other thread to post that problem, but honestly this one's name is perfect for that problem and to keep the forum rules it would be nice to have a balance talk here!
And since (as you say) you don't play much stronghold, I'd like to add some remarks...
I play with my friend 2-3 times a week for about a year or 1.5 (we've played H3 for 10000 years before). We consider ourselves magnificent fans.
Usually Heritage with our own modifications. We've discovered many overpowered combination:
Maeve (Heaven): Empathy, Devine guidence, power of speed, retribution, swift mind and training of course, .
Kasper(Necro): Just his tent and with a good player hand you won't loose a unit throughout the whole game.
Pounder (stronghold): Powrful blow, stunning blow, excruciating strike, order of the chief, earth daughter'slow and haste,nothing to add
Those are only few overpowered combination that we've came up with. But all of them are difficult to achieve and usually there is a lot of HC gaming to get there. Well except for stronghold fraction, where trappers effectively kill the pleasure of the game by making it all so easy. If someone requests I can send some replays of impossibly won battles (high). It would make everything clear.
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Nebdar
Promising
Supreme Hero
Generation N
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posted October 02, 2008 10:31 AM |
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About replays upload them at www.speedyshare.com and post the linkshere that will definetly open some eyes of some members( watching is beliving)
About balancing the game by fan made mod(patch) i was thinking about it too, but there is a much work to do not much time to spare. First of all i want to gather information about what we can change ourself what have been done and can be putted in this Patch and talk about other changes.
But before that i think one thing must be started first (secret)
when i release it i will focus on Patch for 3.1 Patch.
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 02, 2008 12:56 PM |
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I haven't played much, but the duel hero creator allowed me to create (I think) many overpowered combination.
so far the most overpowered things I found are rain of imbued arrows and ingvar with hundreds of shieldguards and appropriate runes
in a duel vs my friend with the heroes I created, he had ingvar with 700 shieldguards with 20 pvs each, I had maeve with 90 royal griffins with initiative 31 (I suppose that's overpowered too) I was owning him, I managed to escape his 2 runes of charge, but I didn't expect him to cast it a 3rd time without refreshing it. got totally pwned...
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Asco
Tavern Dweller
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posted October 07, 2008 02:07 PM |
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Yes heaven and their abilities are certainly unbalanced aspects too. IMO training should be restricted to 5th lvl only. Playing large maps like I do (2 days gaming ) shows it clearly. Nothging can beat you after you own 2 gold mines. You dont even bother conquering other castles. I have thought lots about balancing it. Raising prices or decreasing number of units to be trained won't help. 5th lvl restriction will also make priest much more playable, cause no matter what you say, their mobility and initiative isn't 5th lvl apropriate..
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 07, 2008 07:06 PM |
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the priest is the best heaven unit imo. in a game I got 100 zealots through training. I captured a necropolis, and I prefered using the gold to train 20 more zealots by week rather than recruiting undead creatures
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dredknight
Honorable
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
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posted July 12, 2013 03:17 PM |
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hey everyone
What happened with this thread?
it seems it just died 4-5 years ago... 
do you know any unoffcial patch that balance the game?
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Lubomir
Tavern Dweller
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posted September 14, 2013 12:53 PM |
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dredknight said:
hey everyone
What happened with this thread?
it seems it just died 4-5 years ago...
do you know any unoffcial patch that balance the game?
Hi, there is now my patch available. It aims on unbalanced upgrades - most annoying example is Arcane Archer and Master Hunter. Master hunter now isn't chosen at all and I want every upgrade to be pickable. Watch out for my thread.
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