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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: Legalize Drugs?
Thread: Legalize Drugs? This thread is 8 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 · «PREV / NEXT»
fred79
fred79


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
SCOURGE OF THE H-SEA
posted June 01, 2018 05:02 PM

lol, i think the same thing of your opinions(mostly, at least. i can't remember all of them). agree to disagree, right?

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Supreme Hero
posted June 01, 2018 05:03 PM
Edited by bloodsucker at 17:06, 01 Jun 2018.

I don't think that decriminalizing hard core drugs would lead to an apocalyptical scenario, as a matter of fact I do believe the way certain prescription drugs are being sold can be a bigger problem right now then heroine would be in that situation.
Here in Portugal you are not prosecuted by the law for consuming any kind of drugs, they consider you have a disease called adiction and you need treatment and we have less drug abuse problems now then some twenty years ago when consumers were considered criminals.
That said I'm with the guys that denounce the formation of cartels, there was a maxim some years ago I think it applies perfectly: just follow the money. There is an interest in keeping drugs illegal and it isn't just political, it's also economic.

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


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Undefeatable Hero
posted June 01, 2018 05:20 PM

Keep in mind, that prescribed drugs are PRESCRIBED. Most people are not using them voluntarily, in other words, the DOCTOR tells them to.

There is another layer of this. Think about old people who can't really care for themselves and have mobility problems. These poor sods naturally have all kinds of ailments - stuff that happens, when you get old, stuff, that is not feeling good.
It's a lot easier to prescribe some broadband painkiller regularly, than to cartwheel them to a doc or to a hospital every second day - not to mention a lot cheaper.

Even considering habit: If you think a moment, you'll realize that there are a lot worse things than being hooked on something that isn't illegal, and that people are hooked to a lot of things - say, the internet, facebook, chatting, their mobile phone, religion, junk food, sex, a certain person, you name it.
Once it's not a crime anymore, things get a different perspective.

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fred79
fred79


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SCOURGE OF THE H-SEA
posted June 01, 2018 05:20 PM

JollyJoker said:
Sure, fred, people have of course all the self-control in the world, when it comes to the right to own and use weapons, but when it comes to drugs, people are just a bunch of weak-willed dupes who fall for big brother's ploy to control them.
And sure, fred, freedom is great, but only the freedom you find palatable and trust people to be able to handle - and I admit, considering the general state of the US from outside you may have a point there -, but still trusting them to be able to handle the freedom of fire weapons seems somewhat strange in comparison. Misguided.

Excuse my French, but I don't think you are qualified for an opinion that is worth to be taken seriously.


lol, hold up. i'm actually going to respond to this, because after actually reading it, i'm completely at a loss. you really are lost, dude.

so, ok. here we go. try and understand why i don't respect your opinion on nearly everything:

1. you believe that guns can influence people just like drugs can alter minds? i mean, seriously? you're being completely serious? lol, WTF?

2. i know you're anti-gun, so i shouldn't even attempt to clarify this with you, but: the people who commit crimes with guns, are a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of the gun owners in our society. despite the seemingly popular belief otherwise, from people who know jack SQUAT about gun owners in the u.s.

whereas, the people who ingest most drugs, are by and large, the most criminal element BESIDES those white-collar criminals at the helm.

so, your comparisons fall HILARIOUSLY and EMBARRASSINGLY short. dig? this is why i don't respect your opinions, whatsoever, dude. because you think your feelings somehow supercede reality. like all those who think like you do. you guys are completely OUT OF TOUCH with reality.

like i said, dude. wake up. hopefully one day you will. until then, i'll be disregarding your utterly out-of-touch opinions.

i mean that in the nicest way possible, because it may not be your fault that you believe such utter nonsense. you may be easily susceptible to hearsay.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted June 01, 2018 05:34 PM
Edited by Salamandre at 17:38, 01 Jun 2018.

I'm all for freeing everything but then bring the individual responsibility back. You want to eat and become a 300 pounds whale, thats ok but then don't imagine a second you should be on healthcare list if one day you are on the wedge. Same for smoking/drugs, take whatever makes you fly but from the second you are diagnosed with addiction, you lose any rights to universal healthcare, I don't see why  people must finance all the waste of a few who can't discipline themselves. Take the freedom of expression - as soon as your talk disturbs many others, the law is merciless, so why don't expand it to freedom of choices too.

PS: I tested light drugs for my sleep problems and they were so addictive that after 1 week of taking once a day, I was waking every morning with one wish: take my drugs. It is as difficult as eliminating sugar from food, the brain keeps asking and you have to literally suffer to get past.

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fred79
fred79


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
SCOURGE OF THE H-SEA
posted June 01, 2018 05:51 PM

bloodsucker said:
I don't think that decriminalizing hard core drugs would lead to an apocalyptical scenario, as a matter of fact I do believe the way certain prescription drugs are being sold can be a bigger problem right now then heroine would be in that situation.


your version and my version of "apocalyptic" are two different things, apparently. i just think things'll get exponentially worse here in the states, if illegal drugs are legallized. simply because, the drugs we have now(both legal AND illegal), cause enough problems as it is. it seems like people can't handle simple snow anymore; they used to be so much more resilient.

prescription drugs are legal, and they're still abused illegally, despite any regulations otherwise. you make something that is ILLEGAL legal, and it'll be that much MORE abused. once weed is legal, then what? say if it's just used strictly as a calming agent, then where would the u.s. be? people would be even MORE subjugated and docile than they already are. think of the munchies. you think we have a problem with obesity NOW? multiply that by the munchy factor. how anyone can think legalizing something that makes people HUNGRY even when they're NOT, in a society where many people are already overweight and GAINING...

i just cannot fathom this reasoning. like i said, the only reason to legalize it, would be to stop the cartels, and they would just switch to something else for profit. people would still die by the droves at their hands, because whatever turns a profit, will create that kind of business mentality(especially being that OVERPOPULATION will continue to spread, causing all sorts of ill-effects. how people don't have the cognitive ability to see what i've been driving at since i started posting in the osm and more seriously in the tavern, is beyond me).

bloodsucker said:
Here in Portugal you are not prosecuted by the law for consuming any kind of drugs, they consider you have a disease called adiction and you need treatment and we have less drug abuse problems now then some twenty years ago when consumers were considered criminals.


so, what took the negative's place? what GREW due to that change? that's what i'm interested in. you can point at positive results, but you can't sweep the side-effects of that change under a rug. which there always WILL be.

most likely, it's another thing to exploit from the taxpayers, as sal mentioned. i surely don't see THAT tax being abused. not from honest, god-fearing politicians; HELL no.

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted June 01, 2018 06:23 PM

Salamandre said:
I'm all for freeing everything but then bring the individual responsibility back. You want to eat and become a 300 pounds whale, thats ok but then don't imagine a second you should be on healthcare list if one day you are on the wedge. Same for smoking/drugs, take whatever makes you fly but from the second you are diagnosed with addiction, you lose any rights to universal healthcare, I don't see why  people must finance all the waste of a few who can't discipline themselves. Take the freedom of expression - as soon as your talk disturbs many others, the law is merciless, so why don't expand it to freedom of choices too.

PS: I tested light drugs for my sleep problems and they were so addictive that after 1 week of taking once a day, I was waking every morning with one wish: take my drugs. It is as difficult as eliminating sugar from food, the brain keeps asking and you have to literally suffer to get past.
As an (still ex-) smoker, you are out of health care rights as well, obviously.

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


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Undefeatable Hero
posted June 01, 2018 06:27 PM

And, fred, you are so completely off the real world, it's not fun anymore.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


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Wog refugee
posted June 01, 2018 06:30 PM
Edited by Salamandre at 18:31, 01 Jun 2018.

Salamandre said:
from the second you are diagnosed with addiction, you lose any rights to universal healthcare,


It helps reading before commenting, you know. So, I am not addicted, already 5 years without tobacco, here was the post announcing it and I never failed again.


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artu
artu


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Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted June 01, 2018 06:31 PM
Edited by artu at 18:32, 01 Jun 2018.

Salamandre said:
PS: I tested light drugs for my sleep problems and they were so addictive that after 1 week of taking once a day, I was waking every morning with one wish: take my drugs. It is as difficult as eliminating sugar from food, the brain keeps asking and you have to literally suffer to get past.

I think that is more about your condition (sleep problem) than it is about the drugs, if I couldnt sleep all the time, I’d be craving, too. My experience is, weed doesnt cause such a craving if you dont use it like an alcoholic drinks. For instance, I used to smoke a few breaths of bong back in Istanbul, every 4 or 5 days, not much different than beer in front of the tv, only difference is food tastes better. Here in Ayvalik, I have no dealer, so it’s been months since I last smoked and it is really no big deal.

@JJ

I dont think people have various attitudes when it comes to hardcore addiction, and some material cause a strong addiction very fast, and in a few years at most, the results in your mental condition and health are pretty much the same for everyone.
____________
I sincerely hope they get ass cancer - fred

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artu
artu


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Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted June 01, 2018 06:38 PM

Salamandre said:
Salamandre said:
from the second you are diagnosed with addiction, you lose any rights to universal healthcare,


It helps reading before commenting, you know. So, I am not addicted, already 5 years without tobacco, here was the post announcing it and I never failed again.



But you WERE an addict for 20 years, which means if you get some form of disease related to smoking, it will still be about your history of addiction. So where do you draw the line, since such effects remain even after you quit?
____________
I sincerely hope they get ass cancer - fred

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fred79
fred79


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Undefeatable Hero
SCOURGE OF THE H-SEA
posted June 01, 2018 07:11 PM

JollyJoker said:
And, fred, you are so completely off the real world, it's not fun anymore.


You're never going to have fun being so god-awfully wrong all the time, j. That you actually believe you are right is disconcerting, to say the least. That you think I'M the one who is out of touch, is alarming. That there are others who believe the same as you, makes me wonder wtf's in ya'll's water supply. Probably the hot mix of all the prescription meds being flushed, and in quantities and mixtures never meant, or studied for, human consumption.

That, or you just blindly follow whatever trend is currently coursing through the internet's colon.

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


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posted June 01, 2018 07:44 PM

Salamandre said:
Salamandre said:
from the second you are diagnosed with addiction, you lose any rights to universal healthcare,


It helps reading before commenting, you know. So, I am not addicted, already 5 years without tobacco, here was the post announcing it and I never failed again.


No, you'd be off health care as soon as you had started.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


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Wog refugee
posted June 01, 2018 07:53 PM
Edited by Salamandre at 19:57, 01 Jun 2018.

artu said:

But you WERE an addict for 20 years, which means if you get some form of disease related to smoking, it will still be about your history of addiction. So where do you draw the line, since such effects remain even after you quit?


I love how you guys crawl to paint me as a bad ass radical, just so you can have fun debating your style.

Not so hard to figure that what I mean is "give them access to health care system as soon as they win their addiction", in other words:

don't force others to support their cancer expenses while they still smoke 2 packs a day, or support their obesity expenses while they don't even train physically or achieved some regime. Relax now, I don't want people with illness to be left alone, like spartans did.

Look at this, thats my view too.
____________
All my Era II mods

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted June 01, 2018 08:05 PM

artu said:


@JJ

I dont think people have various attitudes when it comes to hardcore addiction, and some material cause a strong addiction very fast, and in a few years at most, the results in your mental condition and health are pretty much the same for everyone.
They have, and that's a fact.  Drugs cater to different needs, and addiction isn't a consequence of physical withdrawal (it it was, the relapse quote after rehab would be non-existing).

The main prerequisite of becoming addicted to something is - you have to like what the drug does with you. If you don't, you won't use it again. That simple.

Now, ask yourself a question. Alcohol is legal in most countries. Now, why is it, that some can drink now and then, even get pissed now and then and have no craving the rest of the time, while others must start the day with a deep look into a liquor bottle?

Then, ask yourself this: what kind of a person do you have ro be to set a needle to your vein and inject. What kind of craving must be there to get over that even before becoming addicted. I mean, it's no fun, right? You may pop a pill alright. But pushing a needle into your vein? For FUN?

It's kind of like cutting yourself, just the other way round. You cut yourself for the pain, because it proves something to you; you can still feel something. Shooting up is the opposite. You feel CONSTANT pain about something and want to get rid of it. If you want THAT, you'll be addicted in no time, because it gives you what you need, and withdrawal will really hurt because - you HURT without it (which doesn't mean there won't be physical withdrawal symptoms, but those are quite subjective as smokers can tell you).

In short, reasonable happy people without a problem won't become addicted to anything, either because they don't LIKE the effect of a particular drug or because they do like it, but don't NEED it - like going to the movies.

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artu
artu


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Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted June 01, 2018 08:15 PM

JJ:

That is not true, there are even people who are forced to become addicts by the mafia, and then, they get saved but still keep on shootihg heroin or meth, if a substance has high addiction levels, it is also a physical condition, not just emotional.

@Sal

Lol, dude, when have you become so easily offended? I wasnt trying to paint you as a radical or anything else, you said addictions shouldnt be covered by public healthcare, since it’s people’s own choice, and I simply asked so what if you smoke for twenty years, quit and get lung cancer a year after. It was a totally innocent and reasonable question.
____________
I sincerely hope they get ass cancer - fred

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


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posted June 01, 2018 08:35 PM

artu said:
JJ:

That is not true, there are even people who are forced to become addicts by the mafia, and then, they get saved but still keep on shootihg heroin or meth, if a substance has high addiction levels, it is also a physical condition, not just emotional.

How would you know what "the mafia" does?
And, no, you are wrong. There are no substances that are "eternally addictive". Don't get irrational on me. Just ask yourself, if it's a physical condition, and if it's hell to quit - why the high relapse rates?.
Addiction is a state of the MIND. Drugs can make you addicted only, if you CRAVE what they do to you. If you don't, you'll stop taking them, and every physical withdrawal will just be a additional motivation to get rid of it. I know that from firsthand experience.

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artu
artu


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Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted June 01, 2018 08:49 PM
Edited by artu at 20:51, 01 Jun 2018.

I know because it is quite a common knowledge, especially in human traficking, they make prostitutes addicts to have control over them. It is also quite weird to take what I say into meaning “addictions are eternal” and then call me the irrational one, there are many parameters to determine how addictive a substance is, tolerance (how fast you have to increase your regular dose), withdrawal (how severe is the cold turkey), dependence (ratio of people becoming addicts versus normal users), and a few more I cant remember at the moment. So, (and I thought this should be obvious to everyone) the addiction levels of coffee and heroin are NOT the same, no matter what your personality is. An addictive personality will become addicted to anything much easier of course, but that doesnt mean all addictions are the same and the substance is just a detail.
____________
I sincerely hope they get ass cancer - fred

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


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posted June 01, 2018 10:14 PM

artu said:
I know because it is quite a common knowledge, especially in human traficking, they make prostitutes addicts to have control over them.
I don't know anything of that sort. If anything it's the other way round. FIRST they are forced by sheer brutal violence. THEN, when the girls are completely devoid of any self-respect, they get something that HELPS, because they stop HURTING. It's not the DRUG that is the problem, but the fact that they are forced into a miserable life that creates a problem that the drug helps to suppress.
Quote:

It is also quite weird to take what I say into meaning “addictions are eternal” and then call me the irrational one, there are many parameters to determine how addictive a substance is, tolerance (how fast you have to increase your regular dose), withdrawal (how severe is the cold turkey), dependence (ratio of people becoming addicts versus normal users), and a few more I cant remember at the moment. So, (and I thought this should be obvious to everyone) the addiction levels of coffee and heroin are NOT the same, no matter what your personality is. An addictive personality will become addicted to anything much easier of course, but that doesnt mean all addictions are the same and the substance is just a detail.
Well, that's all nonsense, because nothing you say above is a reason why someone would take a substance REPEATEDLY in the first place - that seems to be a prerequisite for mentioned factors.

Imo, you are truly biased here, and quite irrational. Your post has more problems, but it doesn't make sense to discuss that, since it's not your ideas you post here. You should give the matter some thought.

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fred79
fred79


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SCOURGE OF THE H-SEA
posted June 01, 2018 10:22 PM

i knew it. i had even typed up a post warning artu to watch out, because jj was on an irrationality streak and was going to call HIM irrational too.

jj, wtf, man. i, sal, and artu all have tried talking sense to you on various points here(of course, i was an asshat about some of it, but whatever), and you refuse to hear it, and are calling us the very thing we're seeing in you.

what the heck happened to you, man? is something going down in your life that you can't cope with? usually, you at least make some kind of logical point, but you're so far off the grid today, as to actually make me worry about you.

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