Heroes of Might and Magic Community
visiting hero! Register | Today's Posts | Games | Search! | FAQ/Rules | AvatarList | MemberList | Profile


Age of Heroes Headlines:  
5 Oct 2016: Heroes VII development comes to an end.. - read more
6 Aug 2016: Troubled Heroes VII Expansion Release - read more
26 Apr 2016: Heroes VII XPack - Trial by Fire - Coming out in June! - read more
17 Apr 2016: Global Alternative Creatures MOD for H7 after 1.8 Patch! - read more
7 Mar 2016: Romero launches a Piano Sonata Album Kickstarter! - read more
19 Feb 2016: Heroes 5.5 RC6, Heroes VII patch 1.7 are out! - read more
13 Jan 2016: Horn of the Abyss 1.4 Available for Download! - read more
17 Dec 2015: Heroes 5.5 update, 1.6 out for H7 - read more
23 Nov 2015: H7 1.4 & 1.5 patches Released - read more
31 Oct 2015: First H7 patches are out, End of DoC development - read more
5 Oct 2016: Heroes VII development comes to an end.. - read more
[X] Remove Ads
LOGIN:     Username:     Password:         [ Register ]
New Server | HOMM1: info forum | HOMM2: info forum | HOMM3: info forum | HOMM4: info forum | HOMM5: info forum | MMH6: wiki forum | MMH7: wiki forum
Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: Legalize Drugs?
Thread: Legalize Drugs? This thread is 8 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 · «PREV
JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted June 01, 2018 10:29 PM

You are blabbering, Frad. No substance in your posts, no points, no content, just stupid bullsh!t.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
fred79
fred79


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
SCOURGE OF THE H-SEA
posted June 01, 2018 10:31 PM

oh, ok. no need to worry then. you just consigned yourself to not listen to reason. i've seen that before. stick with it, it'll get you places.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted June 01, 2018 10:34 PM

It did, in fact, thanks.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
fred79
fred79


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
SCOURGE OF THE H-SEA
posted June 01, 2018 10:39 PM

no problem.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted June 01, 2018 10:49 PM
Edited by artu at 22:52, 01 Jun 2018.

JollyJoker said:
artu said:
I know because it is quite a common knowledge, especially in human traficking, they make prostitutes addicts to have control over them.
I don't know anything of that sort. If anything it's the other way round. FIRST they are forced by sheer brutal violence. THEN, when the girls are completely devoid of any self-respect, they get something that HELPS, because they stop HURTING. It's not the DRUG that is the problem, but the fact that they are forced into a miserable life that creates a problem that the drug helps to suppress.
Quote:

It is also quite weird to take what I say into meaning “addictions are eternal” and then call me the irrational one, there are many parameters to determine how addictive a substance is, tolerance (how fast you have to increase your regular dose), withdrawal (how severe is the cold turkey), dependence (ratio of people becoming addicts versus normal users), and a few more I cant remember at the moment. So, (and I thought this should be obvious to everyone) the addiction levels of coffee and heroin are NOT the same, no matter what your personality is. An addictive personality will become addicted to anything much easier of course, but that doesnt mean all addictions are the same and the substance is just a detail.
Well, that's all nonsense, because nothing you say above is a reason why someone would take a substance REPEATEDLY in the first place - that seems to be a prerequisite for mentioned factors.

Imo, you are truly biased here, and quite irrational. Your post has more problems, but it doesn't make sense to discuss that, since it's not your ideas you post here. You should give the matter some thought.

Just because you didnt hear it, doesnt mean it doesnt exist: https://www.phnompenhpost.com/national/prostitutes-forced-drug-addiction
And needless to say, to have a healthy opinion, you need information on a subject, all the parameters I told you about are reasons themselves to use a substance repeatedly, not to mention “the feeling high” part itself is also a parameter and quite a significant reason to relap. On high addiction levels, the addicts may not enjoy anything after they got a taste of “the high.” I dont know if you read William Burroughs’ Junkie (which is autobiographic) but there is a lot of detail about that in there. Some people fill a void in them by an addiction, that is psychological, we all know that, I myself, explained that here in the OSM in some thread I cant track down at the moment (too much “new house” work these days, garden is a mess, it tires me) but this doesnt mean this is the only explanation of how people become additcs or they can get rid of shooting heroin as easy as giving up smoking, only if they cure their psychological problems. It doesnt  work that way. If anything, think of all the musician biographies you read, I remember you like those.
____________
I admit it, I like it when they are bombastic - Neraus

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
fred79
fred79


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
SCOURGE OF THE H-SEA
posted June 01, 2018 10:59 PM

artu said:
I dont know if you read William Burroughs’ Junkie (which is autobiographic) but there is a lot of detail about that in there.


wth, artu, i was going to mention that myself in the post i decided not to bother with. we got some temporary vulcan mind-meld going on right now? what color hair i am thinking of at this second?

i was going to mention how burroughs described your cells were no longer your cells, but junk cells.

apparently, the withdrawal symptoms that can literally kill them, are all in a junkie's head.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted June 01, 2018 11:05 PM

It's interesting that you read a significant book, mention it and dismiss what it says.
The article you cite, well, read it again, and do NOT read into it what you want this time. Nothing in it contradicts me.

Your problem is you don't understand addiction.

Look at it philosophically: if you could if there woulöd be this drug effect you describe - there wouldn't be free will. If there was a substance that would make you an addict no matter what - where's your personal resüonsibility? All drug users would be victims - also no matter what. Then drugs would be poison, and an innkeeper would be a murderer.

Drugs are PRESCRIBED - in Britain even heroin is prescribed. Strange, right? They must be really thick, doing that.

If I was you, I wouold start to think about what is actually the problem with being addicted, instead of using the word as if it was earning you hell.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
fred79
fred79


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
SCOURGE OF THE H-SEA
posted June 01, 2018 11:17 PM

i have a good deal of knowledge on the subject(outside burrough's writing and own views). you lack a good deal of knowledge on every subject i discuss with you, and yet you always argue with me anyway as if that isn't a fact. there's just no point in discussing anything with you, period.




but answer me this anyway, j: if being a junkie is all in your head, then how can withdrawal symptoms make you physically ill, and possibly kill you, if there ISN'T a physical dependence on said drug? answer that ONE question, and we'll see if you're worth even arguing further.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted June 01, 2018 11:25 PM
Edited by artu at 23:38, 01 Jun 2018.

You said they werent forced, you never heard of such a thing and they are forced, it contradicts you on this first of all, and had every addiction been the same, they could do the same with forcing the prostitutes to smoke cigarettes, right? What is the difference, if it is ALL phsychological? Cigarettes would be even much cheaper! You are insisting on an absurd reductionism. How come people who have a lot of meaning and happiness in their life can turn out addicts, too, to the point they die at thirty losing it all, if it’s just emotional? Dont worry, I understand addiction quite clearly, and not just from studies, I was a heavy drinker myself in the past, it is you who is describing the elephant only by the trunk.

Oh, and when it comes to heavy drugs, the addicts are considered victims anyway. Addictions of such scale are treated as physical diseases, not just psychological issues, (even the prescribed heroin is a treatment for that) I can link you zillions of credible sources about everything I mentioned but I assume you know how to use the internet and can spot scientific studies on your own, I suggest you do that.
____________
I admit it, I like it when they are bombastic - Neraus

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Supreme Hero
posted June 02, 2018 12:02 AM
Edited by bloodsucker at 00:48, 02 Jun 2018.

artu said:
JJ:

That is not true, there are even people who are forced to become addicts by the mafia, and then, they get saved but still keep on shootihg heroin or meth, if a substance has high addiction levels, it is also a physical

It is true, JJ is completely right at this point. For instance I've used heroine, injected and smoked and never got addicted to it, all the other guys that were with me at the moment of my first shot got addicted, even one that didn't tried it that time. When asked I used to say I didn't had such an existential pain I needed to be numbed that way.
I just smoked some weed between my last post and this one. I bought 10 grams in August and I smoke from time to time, usually when a certain girl comes visiting me (but not necessarily just at those times, it's just that she likes it).
But don't ask me about quitting my cigarettes and I'm still deciding if I'm being paranoid about Sal talking directly to me when he mentioned weighting 300 pounds and not being disciplined enough for diet or regularly exercise (yet I was quite a sportsman in my days, fun sports of course, like surf and snow-board, not gyms stuff).

It is also because of those different reactions to the drugs that I don't paint an apocalyptic scenario to them being legalized or decriminalized. Some people will, some would anyway, many others won't, like it happens with alcohol.

If you are aware of those tricks used by the mafia, you should probably be also aware some of those girls just become "normal" after a cold-turkey, while others remain addicted and need tons of treatment to recover, if they ever do.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted June 02, 2018 12:19 AM

So you think heroin addiction and cigarette addiction are basically the same, only because you havent turned out an addict in a few experimental shots? Doesnt your story indicate, cigarettes are a tolerable addiction for you since you know you can afford living your life the way you do as a smoker, yet had you turned out a heroin addict, it would have turned you into a wreck, so you acted cautious and stayed away? Wasnt that the point to begin with, which drugs can be too dangerous to legalize? I know some of the girls can manage to quit, in my first post about that, read again what I mentioned, I said “some” stay as addicts or relapse AFTER they were saved. Now, once you are addicted to something, there is always the risk of a relapse, even if you are in a healthy mental state, and it is not ONLY about living with this constant void all the time, one bad evening, one bad break up etc etc can trigger it just as well. Drugs that have high and fast addiction levels with extreme harm to health and mental capacity are not legalized exactly because of that. A heroin relapse is not something that can be compared to lighting a cigarette after 5 years, not to mention such an addiction has a much higher risk of killing you before you choose to quit or relapse at all.
____________
I admit it, I like it when they are bombastic - Neraus

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Supreme Hero
posted June 02, 2018 12:32 AM
Edited by bloodsucker at 00:34, 02 Jun 2018.

artu said:
So you think heroin addiction and cigarette addiction are basically the same,

Yes, I think the problem is basically the same and no, I don't think cigarettes cause the same health and social problems as heroine.
Yet and not wanting to establish any unreasonable parallels, I've read somewhere some years ago that the rates of relapse in cigarettes and heroine were quite similar. (Maybe they were emphasizing the strength of nicotine addiction, I can't be sure, it was too long ago.)

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted June 02, 2018 12:44 AM

The difference is you can be a moderate drinker or smoker and still function, you can slow down, even quit for a while, where as in heavy drugs the results are much more binary in almost all of the cases. You can go back to smoking but you wont try to rob someone with a knife to get your fix. When the withdrawal is severe, that effects everything. Think of the historical opium crisis in China, U.K. pushes them to legalize the trade and bam, they have millions of addicts they can not deal with.
____________
I admit it, I like it when they are bombastic - Neraus

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Supreme Hero
posted June 02, 2018 12:58 AM
Edited by bloodsucker at 00:59, 02 Jun 2018.

I just gave you an example, our entire country (Portugal) treats addiction to heroine has an health problem. And it seems to work, we have less addiction problems now then before.
I can even accept Sal point of view: someone's paying to treat others, the sick not being held responsible for their heath problem, etc.
But I'm sure I can counterpoint yours with facts: Heroine use is not criminalized here and we have less abuse problems then when it was.
And I tell you, this is counter intuitive even to me.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted June 02, 2018 01:16 AM

All this is nice, but if you legalize, there will be more consumers, thus more drug-ill people, which means even more wasted money. I don't know how is going where you live, but here the healthcare funds constantly get a +1 billion negative balance every year and currently is at -6 billion of euros. And guess where they cut first: in rare syndromes, this is how I have to pay from my pocket ALL my sleep pills and medical controls - for example hourly urine control is not considered by healthcare funds yet this is how you get the hormonal levels in your body. And it costs a lot. While obese people need an ambulance and fire fighters combined just to get out from their house and go to hospital for a check. Many things are just not right.    

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted June 02, 2018 01:18 AM
Edited by artu at 01:22, 02 Jun 2018.

@bloodsucker (I was just gonna write @bs but then I noticed how that look )

I’m perfectly fine with not criminalizing it in that sense, the addicts not being treated as felons. What I mean is, it shouldnt be accessible as if it was beer, where as I have no problem with weed being sold in stores.
____________
I admit it, I like it when they are bombastic - Neraus

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Supreme Hero
posted June 02, 2018 09:30 AM
Edited by bloodsucker at 09:31, 02 Jun 2018.

Sorry, I guess I agree with you. For the first time, I really gave myself the trouble of imagining average fellows entering a dispensary and buying heroine for recreational purposes... Yup! That wont work.
Yet, I still find the way the pharmaceutical industry is currently pushing painkillers and anxiolytics a bigger reason to worry about. People who would never think about visiting those dispensaries are told by their family doctors to take a pill that will make them addicts to it without a simple warning.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Skeggy
Skeggy


Promising
Famous Hero
posted June 02, 2018 02:04 PM

Tertiary sector of the economy, so called service-industry, can create certain frustrations that are very hard to relativize, very hard to contextualize, that can be very non-convertible and very personalized frustration. Put it simply the tertiary sector job praxis (TSJP) is highly individualized experience; there are no codes of conduct per certain type of activity that are seriously maintained or that could provide legal coverage. I suppose legal coverage does exist, but it is very personalized, it lacks TSJP typisation and TSJP contextually. Therefore, single individual is exposed to extremely vast amount of highly personalized frustration both when working and when involved in any type of possible legal quantifications of many highly personalized incidents.

Also, I suppose it’s not like TSJP bosses are telling their employees they should take some drugs, however, it’s not surprising that TSJP workers are propping up themselves with various kind of boosters, downers, or whatever to meet the standards they are expected to achieve. I suppose whole tertiary sector hierarchical interaction act as some kind of indoctrination that treats exclusion from any kind of class context as some kind of birthright we all have but just some of us are worthy to achieve it.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Jump To: « Prev Thread . . . Next Thread » This thread is 8 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 · «PREV
Post New Poll    Post New Topic    Post New Reply

Page compiled in 0.0655 seconds