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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted May 01, 2008 10:47 AM |
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Hehe ok ... you never know, with all us none-native people hanging around. Sometimes misunderstandings occur.
Anyway, minor changes in Stronghold, Dungeon (level 7), and, on a whim, Sylvan (level 2) uploaded.
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What will happen now?
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Drako_the_noob
Known Hero
Banned
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posted May 02, 2008 10:08 AM |
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I real like your ideas, Alcibiades
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rap=
R=retards
A=attempting
P=poetry
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emilsn
Legendary Hero
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posted May 08, 2008 03:58 PM |
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Good!
I have read All about the towns, just looked lighty through the whole allignment thing but ill report back on that later.. 
From all those lovely towns you have made so far, I can only say this: Awesome! - You should, even though your a mod, get a QP! What you did with the towns is, atleast what I see, you took the BEST parts of HoMM5 and just improved it, made it all better and not worse! Where Nival would have snowed it up some how you wouldn't. You should get hired for HoMM6 for this! I mean it.
I think ill write down some more specific things later Dont have time now and then I can talk freely about the allignment thing too (A thing HoMM4 had, I did not like hoMM4! Confusing, so good luck trying to make me like it!)
Again:
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Don't walk behind me; I may not
lead. Don't walk in front of me;
I may not follow. Just walk
beside me and be my friend.
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Lexxan
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
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posted May 08, 2008 06:32 PM |
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I wanna be yer assistant acli 
Good job ! Stronghold is very good as well.
I'm looking forward to the nagas
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted May 09, 2008 06:36 PM |
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Quote:
I think ill write down some more specific things later Dont have time now and then I can talk freely about the allignment thing too (A thing HoMM4 had, I did not like hoMM4! Confusing, so good luck trying to make me like it!)
Again:
Thanx for the nice feedback. Specific comments are always very welcome, as it will help me address issues I had perhaps overlooked.
I'm sorry I've been a bit bussy lately, so I haven't been able to do much. I don't think I'll have any updates in near future - the Naga sanctuary is not finished yet, and I think I might make a detour around some Skill systems before doing it - but then, since that's probably a rather elaborate project, maybe I'll get myself together to do the Nagas. We'll see.
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What will happen now?
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emilsn
Legendary Hero
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posted May 09, 2008 06:53 PM |
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I read up on the allignment thing and will say this: what partly ruined HoMM4 for me, was the more complex and complicated system of Faction, Magic and so on. You thing makes sense in my head but when i take the idea and put it into a game, I see myself getting confused all over again - Do you think that it is simpel enough to work out perfectly? Because I have my doubts..
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Don't walk behind me; I may not
lead. Don't walk in front of me;
I may not follow. Just walk
beside me and be my friend.
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 09, 2008 09:17 PM |
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What bothered me about H4 was the fact that except for Stronghold, every faction had an opposite faction except for Preserve.
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Eccentric Opinion
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fieldpriest
Hired Hero
an orthodox revolutionist
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posted May 09, 2008 10:27 PM |
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Except and except  Don't you think that the opposite for Preserve was Stronghold? Peace vs. brutality?
Whatever.
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 09, 2008 10:43 PM |
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No, not at all. There was no opposite for Nature magic either.
Stronghold was equally against all faction.
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Eccentric Opinion
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted May 10, 2008 01:01 AM |
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Quote:
I read up on the allignment thing and will say this: what partly ruined HoMM4 for me, was the more complex and complicated system of Faction, Magic and so on. You thing makes sense in my head but when i take the idea and put it into a game, I see myself getting confused all over again - Do you think that it is simpel enough to work out perfectly? Because I have my doubts..
I understand your concern, but in reality, that would not really be an issue. The point is that the whole alignment thing etc. doesn't really affect game-play - it just controls the underlying patterns. For instance - it provides the layout for which skills and magic schools are available for each faction. You don't need to understand the whole alignment system to use this in game.
Consider the current Heroes 5 system: Haven has Dark Magic and Light Magic. We know that for fact, that just is - and when we play the game, we don't really need to know why. Likewise, we know Haven has high probability for Leadeship and small probability for Luck. That's a feature we become familiar with during game, and base our strategies on.
What the alignment system here does, is that it lays down a pattern for all this. It forms the frameworks that controls the other parameters. In a way, you can say this is just as random as the Heroes 5 approach, and it is - however, the beauty of it is, that it goes so nicely along with how we think of these factions in other contexts. Making Haven Good, Lawful and Conservative is hardly something revolutionary, nor does it come unnatural. Tying these facts up with Magic Schools and Skills, for me, makes it much less random, and that's what I like about it.
Mvassilev: In fact you got the whole idea of the Heroes 4 Alignment system wrong. Each faction did not have one opposed faction, each faction - including Sylvan! - had two opposed factions (alignments). Look at the alignment circle:
Order - Life - Nature - Chaos - Death (- Order)
These form a pentagon, and each corned has an opposing face spanned by two corners: Thus, Life is opposed to Chaos and Death, marking the rival factions of Haven. It also shares a side with both Order and Nature, marking the alligned factions of Haven.
Likewise, Nature was opposed to Order and Death, and alligned with Life and Chaos. Obviously, the reason for the confusion was the Infernopolis: Splitting this town into Inferno (Death) and Necropolis (Undead/Unnature) would have made a much more immediate Hexagon relation:
Order - Life - Nature - Chaos - Death - Undead (- Order)
This would provide each faction with one opposed faction, two hostile, and two friendly factions. But alas, that was not to be.
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What will happen now?
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 10, 2008 01:33 AM |
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But it makes much more sense the way I described it.
Order - Chaos
Life - Death
Makes perfect sense so far. Polar opposites. But then there's
Nature - Order and Death
That breaks the nice symmetry.
It would have made more sense if it was as you said (split the Infernopolis) or with a Forge town (Technology as opposed to Nature).
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Eccentric Opinion
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted May 10, 2008 08:35 AM |
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Nature plays opposite Arcane, Arcane being sort of Wizard magic (Golem, Genies, etc.), perhaps with spells like Teleport, Hypnotize and Magic Mirror.
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emilsn
Legendary Hero
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posted May 10, 2008 09:45 AM |
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Alci you just convinced me on your system
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Don't walk behind me; I may not
lead. Don't walk in front of me;
I may not follow. Just walk
beside me and be my friend.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted May 11, 2008 09:58 AM |
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Quote:
But it makes much more sense the way I described it.
Order - Chaos
Life - Death
Makes perfect sense so far. Polar opposites. But then there's
Nature - Order and Death
That breaks the nice symmetry.
It would have made more sense if it was as you said (split the Infernopolis) or with a Forge town (Technology as opposed to Nature).
Sense or not, that was not how the system was conceived. The system was thought as a 5-way polar, which you can also see from the fact that each faction, besides it's own alignment, has extensions in the Mage Guild to neighbouring alignments. Thus, Sylvan (Preserve) had Nature Magic as its main, but could build extensions for Life Magic and Chaos Magic, respectively. In a similar way, Morale penalties in combat were imposed depending on how you mixed with neighbouring factions (-1 Morale I think) or opposing faction (-3 Morale I think).
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What will happen now?
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emilsn
Legendary Hero
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posted May 18, 2008 08:26 PM |
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Ill start my review, I have not really read any of the others posts so pardon me if I say what they say:
Haven:
Tier 1:
We got the almighty peasent! Good names. Good abilities. From abilities they seem pretty balanced..
Tier 2:
I like how you have made them different The marksman will be even deadlier then the centaur nomad in hoMM5 because it is a small unit and you've made scatter shot able for a upg. good choice.
Tier 3:
I hated this from HoMM4. You make it more fun and tactic more ideal and it can be used for so many great things. A good unit, with a tactic twist.
Tier 4:
Classic and not very new. But I guess it will do Just like in HoMM5 either you att. or you def.
Tier 5:
Nasty upgrades in every way. If Rush dive is improved it could be useful, else do something new? Maybe just change it to Unlimited retalition. ?
Tier 6:
Nothing new here. It is alright
Tier 7:
Trample = Awesome! But is half dmg. to high, later on other creatures will have it and the dmg. could be various ? else it is good creatures
Tier 8:
First off, tier 8! Why not! You bring alot of things to the table here.All is great here.. But the Dominion and Throne explain why these names?
Heroes: Ofcourse all we could want.
End of haven, A great faction with new ideas and things to think about, tactic overwhelming thoughtful.. Good job. next!
Inferno:
Tier 1:
You have created a new cannon fodder! Lemure and Familiar , Taunt, if they have decent def. it will be awesome and with a good growth.. So alright.. Good idea to make 3 ways of dealing with mana.. This is an alright tier 1..
Tier 2:
HoMM5 is alive! With a middle upg. - Nothing new here. Alright names. Fatigue it was in HoMM4 right?
Tier 3:
Yes yes yes.. You have fixed it! Fire breath good idea, but with the HoMM5 failure by making it 3headed ! ! Dumbass nival. But Alci! You made it right..! good job.. the Rush will make these pretty deadly or weak.. tactic again
Tier 4:
You must have been slapping your bald avatar head to make up these names!  Turned out rather alright Sadly the same fate as the Dretch they are like HoMM5 with a middle upgrade.. But that is alright
Tier 5:
Pretty good? Charged could be changed with tramble after all these are, in my head, wild and uncontroable, it would fit them. Smoke cone. Fire wall with smoke, like the Cloud titans att. ! Sure just make it strong!
Tier 6:
IT HAS RETURNED! Efreet. All good. except. Tier 7 this is and not 6!
Tier 7:
Tier 6 unit not 7 ! change 'em. sadly you have made it so strong it cannot be tier 6.. But it is nice and evil!. Pure evil
Tier 8:
fallenx3  If you were the evilst of evil would you like be known as: child of the dark? Spawn of the dark. But these guys are some evil snow!
Heroes: No suprice not at all, it is what we want.
Overall they are evil and mean, a lot of HoMM5 but again HoMM5 had many great ideas! You just polished them a bit. Good one
Ill write some more later .. I hope I havn't made to many repetitions
____________
Don't walk behind me; I may not
lead. Don't walk in front of me;
I may not follow. Just walk
beside me and be my friend.
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madshj
Famous Hero
Minotaur Lord
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posted May 21, 2008 06:21 PM |
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im confused ...
im sorry if i didnt read it all whole.
is this how homm6 are gonna be, or just an idea?
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Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted May 21, 2008 06:48 PM |
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It's a wish for how HoMM 6 should be.
There is no knowledge about the actual HoMM 6 or even a confirmation of its development.
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DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted June 18, 2008 08:38 PM |
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*bump*
Sorry for the long absence. My computer is defunct at the moment, so haven't been able to feed you anything new. Hope to be up and running by the end of the week.
Emilsn > Thanx for the excellent feedback, sorry for the late reply. Would love to hear more, even if it's just a comment on what is good and what is bad - it always makes you think. To reply to a few of the comments you leave:
- Yes, this is very much a polished off and expanded version of Heroes 5. I don't deny that, actually, that's my ame. I like Heroes 5, but it has it's shortcomings. None-the-less, it's a great base for something that could be truely great.
- Names, names and names. You wouldn't imagine the pain I've gone through to come up with some of these names - sometimes, it seems that was what took me the longest time. As for the Angel names (and also the Devil names - some people don't like 3 x Fallen, but well, can't please everybody), I will refer to a previous post on page 1 of this thread:
Quote:
Quote:
Level 7 - What compels you to use random the words "Dominion" and "Throne" as Angel upgrades?
In fact, these names are not random: As you will read here there are a total of 9 types of Angels mentioned in the biblical mythology:
First Sphere:
Seraphim
Cherubim
Ophanin
Second Sphere:
Thrones
Dominions
Powers
Third Sphere
Principalities
Archangels
Angels
Thrones and Dominions are also refered to as Avenging Angels and Judging Angels, which is why I picked these for names for the spellcasting Angels (Divine Vengeance).
- Some of the Inferno upgrades may yet be tweaked. At the time of making, for instance, I put Charge on Hell Horse and Trample on Paladins to make them separate, but also because I think Trample is too powerfull for level 5. In the end, I might go through and see how many units have each of these skills (Gorgons and Death Knights also use them, for instance) and probably even things out.
As a teaser for what to come, I will post a bit here.
My current devotion is the Skill System, but I've been hard pressed to find time to really get into it. None-the-less, some things look pretty clear, and here are the overall lines.
- The will be 18 Skills.
- Each skill will have 4 associated abilities.
- Each ability will open up for a branch of 2 advanced abilities - and only 2. Thus, in contrary to the current system, all basic perks (like Battle Frenzy, Tactics, etc.) open exactly one perk branch.
- The Hero will be able to learn his Class Skill and a further amount of 6 or 7 Skills - I might lean towards 7, as 6 seems a bit narrow out of a selection of 18 skills. That would make a total of 8 skills like in the old days.
- The Hero will be able to learn 3 perks for each skill. This may be any combination of basic and advanced perks as he happen to prioritize.
- The Skills will come in 3 Skill Groups: Might Skills, Transitional Skills (or: Hero Skills), and Magic Skills.
- Might Skills modify the effectivity of your army. The list of Might Skills currently looks like this:
- Attack - increases damage
- Defence - decreases damage
- Leadership - increases morale
- Luck - increases luck
- Rushing - increases initiative
- Resistance (?) - increases magic resistance
- Transitional Skills modify the effectivity of your Hero. The list of Transitional Skills currently looks like this:
- Logistics - increases movement
- War Machines - boosts war machines
- Combat - increases Hero initiative when doing melee attack
- Sorcery - increases Hero initiative when casting spells
- Enlightenment - increases (Magic?) stats (Power/Knowledge) and adds XP
- Undecided (?) - increases Might stats (Attack/Defence) plus other effect or something entirely different
- Magic Skills determine which spells you can learn and modify the effectivity of your spells:
- Divine Magic - modifies relevant spell school
- Profane Magic - "
- Order Magic - "
- Chaos Magic - "
- Nature Magic - "
- Arcane Magic - "
- Shatter Skills might be present in some form or the other, but only with reference to Magic Skills and Might Skills. Hence, depending on your class, you may have blocked access to certain skills, and have an appropriate Shatter Skill replace it. Thus, Necropolis Heroes will have a "Shatter Morale" skill [Despair] replacing the Leadership skill, and the Cleric might have a "Shatter Dark" skill (Sanctity) instead of Dark Magic. The precise structure of how Shatter Skills will be incorporated is not decided yet.
I hope putting this up will also motivate myself to get along with the project. Will hopefully have my stuff back by the end of the week.
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What will happen now?
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Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted June 18, 2008 09:45 PM |
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Ah, good morning to you as well.
Can't wait to blow all your propositions to smitherines.
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DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted June 18, 2008 10:07 PM |
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He he well you will have to wait a bit, because at the moment, this is pretty much what's done - well, there are some thoughts, but nothing on paper really. So - patience before the fiest.
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This thread is pages long: 
