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| Thread: Spells, Overpowered, Underpowered, Favourites? Your Opinions? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Drunk_Lord
Known Hero
very happy hero :)
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posted March 12, 2008 05:04 PM |
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Summoning magic alone doesn't sound very promising. But there are many way to flood power in it and use it with good results. Here are some advices:
Dont' use summoning alone, it would be always better to have second magic school.
Summoning & destructive:
One thing is to use raise dead, arcane armor and some tanky type of unit while u blast with destructive. Although it requires good spellpower. Also to summon a phoenix to hold the front lines while blasting(I recommend master of ice here) is decent. And the phoenix also deals a good amount of damage. Third path is to use Deep Freeze to really big stack and then a devastating phoenix attack which deep freeze will help to deal some good damage. Maybe some damage perks and the phoenix will own the enemy. Nice addition to Deep Freeze thing will be to use fire spells with master of fire(effective vs treants for example) and phoenix attacks. MotW just rules here.
Summoning & dark:
My favorite so far. Launch a mass slow and summon a phoenix. The enemy will never see the phoenix. Good for creeping. If two stacks(big numbers) summon the phoenix and then PM one of the stacks. Just use fodder. If more than two stacks use mass spells. Vs shooters confusion is godly, right after it summon the phoenix. If they're walkers it's mass slow first. To buff the phoenix with vampirism is overkill. Oh, and don't forget u can send him in the middle of the enemy ranks and frenzy him 
Another use of it is to weaken the enemy via weakness and suffering + raise dead and arcane armor to reduce the damage even more. Raise dead is recommended only if this is the final battle(or in crucial battles) or ur playing necro.
Another use may be with mass slow and summon hive(on exp of course  ). Summon hives here-there(wonder if MotW works with summon hive, it works with RoA, so it should work with MotW) and enemy won't trouble u much with his actions  .
Summoning & light:
Not a true combo(and not very good(and not used by anybody )), but still has it's uses. To buff a phoenix with light is godly, but the good things end here. Maybe it'll be nice to use some arcane armor\resurrection combo to buy the phoenix the needed time to destroy the enemy. Light also secure that u can counter a PM or Frenzy to the phoenix. Another use: get some elemental-summon booster. Then why not haste those elementals?
This are the dual magic school combos with summoning magic. U can use the summoning with other magic schools, but u can also use racial skill and abilities to make it more effective. MotW and Imbue arrow are the main. Btw I hate when everyone complains how weak is the summon elementals spell. Yes, it's really weak sometimes, but with some planning it can become decent. Fire warriors, waistband and some other SPP arties and TA will make the elementals a force not to be trifle with. And u can also clone them(and spam clone elementals with MotW hehe  ). Btw phantom forces with some hero-init buffs(and MotW if ur a wizard) can clone at such high rate(pity that damage for divine vengeance doesn't calculate with summoned units). Land mines can also be very nasty vs walkers(and even more nasty vs large walkers ), I mean vs sylvan, haven(paladins don't live long enough), fortess with rune of charge especially. Spamming mines with MotW or RoA is a pleasure For spike barrier it's a very good spell. Saved my butt a few times already.
I'll try to add something more later(for sure I'm mising something  ).
EDIT:@nosfe - http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=25355 see the haven thing. Divine Vengeance doesn't feel ovepowered in this, it just feels like the one of the biggest overkills ever.
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nosfe
Adventuring Hero
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posted March 12, 2008 05:21 PM |
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thats because haven doesn't have a ton of spell power, try sylvan with vengeance+high druid or academy with MotW+vengeance, as a comparison, you need 25 spell power and an empowered implosion to make 1.5k dmg while with academy all you need to do is go kamikaze with your djinns and then cast double vengeance and you've just gotten rid of the enemy's most powerfull creature in under 2 turns
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DarkShadow
Legendary Hero
Cerise Princess
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posted March 12, 2008 06:35 PM |
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Sylvan is already overpowered.
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Drunk_Lord
Known Hero
very happy hero :)
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posted March 12, 2008 06:45 PM |
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Quote:
Sylvan is already overpowered.
U just need to decide in which way u will be overpowered btw for what nosfe suggests don't take defense, cuz u'll die harder. And sylvan heroes has high defense 
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carcity
Supreme Hero
Blind Sage
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posted March 17, 2008 09:14 AM |
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I say it depends much on wich faction you play. when i play dungeon i go for destructive (and sometimes dark to). when i play academy i go for the ultimate and maybe dark to overpower the spells. when i play sylvan i choose summonning. haven i choose light (to bless those paladins). when i play necro dark (of course). inferno destructive. and for fortress i choose destructive.
and the most overpowered spell is: hmm... this was a tricky one. but i must say:
empowered armaggedon
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Why can't you save anybody?
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted March 17, 2008 11:25 AM |
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Light-Summoning is very effective actually. The problem is that only academy can get both schools and spells easily and this combo does not help against all. Reason is that academy's requirements will often mean a little less army and the lineup is more defensive anyway - the opponent will want to come to you anyway so you are forced into this. That said summoning/light works wonders against another academy, necropolis or anyone if you get divine vengeance Yes it's that broken.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted March 17, 2008 12:22 PM |
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Divine vengeance is a joke
period.
But it was quite fun to screw endgame sylvan with a light magic warlock tossing divine vengeances around, lol
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okrane
Famous Hero
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posted March 17, 2008 12:49 PM |
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Quote:
But it was quite fun to screw endgame sylvan with a light magic warlock tossing divine vengeances around, lol
So the game IS balanced!
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Lesij
Famous Hero
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posted March 17, 2008 01:01 PM |
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My favs?
The lead takes Phoenix/Vampirism combination- it just rocks!
At the second place are (pfc.) Puppet and Frenzy...
And las but not least- arma with ignite and master of fire XD
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tb5841
Hired Hero
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posted March 17, 2008 01:24 PM |
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Edited by tb5841 at 16:52, 17 Mar 2008.
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The formula for Divine Vengeance damage should be changed to something like this:
(3lnF)*(10+1*Power) (no mastery)
(3lnF)*(30+3*Power) (basic)
(3lnF)*(40+4*Power) (advanced)
(3lnF)*(60+6*Power) (expert)
Here are some damage values, based on a hero with Expert mastery and a Spellpower of 15:
Implosion: 615
Empowered Implosion: 923
Divine Vengeance with the existing formula after:
2 peasants - 212
4 peasants - 300
20 peasants - 671
50 peasants - 1061
100 peasants - 1500
500 peasants - 3354
1000 peasants - 4743
10000 peasants - 15000!!!!
Divine Vengeance with my formula after:
2 peasants - 156
4 peasants - 312
20 peasants - 674
50 peasants - 881
100 peasants - 1037
500 peasants - 1398
1000 peasants - 1554
10000 peasants - 2072
What do you think? I also think it should do Fire damage like WoL does, to make it easier to defend against.
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okrane
Famous Hero
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posted March 17, 2008 01:27 PM |
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As long as you can't get the community to agree about using a balance mod in their MP games, no matter what you propose it will still be worthless.
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Lesij
Famous Hero
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posted March 17, 2008 03:27 PM |
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@TB- to much all the time...
Take into consideration that killing 50 peasants simply doesn't hurt your enemy and dmg (for not 5th circle spell) is close to implosion -_-
I think that the changes should reamin (they're quite good) BUT Divine Vega should cost 1,5 times more and be 5th circle spell...
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forest001
Known Hero
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posted March 17, 2008 03:43 PM |
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Quote:
@TB- to much all the time...
Take into consideration that killing 50 peasants simply doesn't hurt your enemy and dmg (for not 5th circle spell) is close to implosion -_-
I think that the changes should reamin (they're quite good) BUT Divine Vega should cost 1,5 times more and be 5th circle spell...
some ideas
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tb5841
Hired Hero
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posted March 17, 2008 04:50 PM |
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Replace 50 Peasants with 50 Stalkers or 7 Titans and it seems a much bigger dent in your army. If someone needs to kill that much before DV damage will equal Implosion, then Implosion will be more useful a lot of the time. And I gave figures for a Spellpower of 15, higher Spellpower improves Implosion much more than DV.
I prefer the idea of making it a balanced L4 spell if possible, rather than a L5 one. I like the L5 spells much more than the L4 ones, and so prefer it the existing way round.
Since I play mostly LAN games, I'd definitely find a balance mod useful.
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 17, 2008 05:48 PM |
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Edited by Fauch at 17:50, 17 Mar 2008.
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using ln is a bad idea imo since the more units are killed, the less damages you inflict for each of them
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forest001
Known Hero
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posted March 17, 2008 06:10 PM |
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Quote:
using ln is a bad idea imo since the more units are killed, the less damages you inflict for each of them
that's true but all creatures spells are ln based.
if you have 100 druid elders they don't have 100sp,
that more fair than x dmg for x frags as magic damage is not affected defence stat.
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 17, 2008 06:53 PM |
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I'm not sure about that. after all your physical attacks power also rely on attack to counter balance defense.
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tb5841
Hired Hero
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posted March 17, 2008 07:39 PM |
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Quote:
using ln is a bad idea imo since the more units are killed, the less damages you inflict for each of them
That was the point - Divine Vengeance becomes ridiculously powerful when armies get too big, so I wanted to cap the damage somehow. I don't feel it's overpowered in small battles at the moment, but if you're fighting battles with thousands of units it becomes ridiculous, and using ln counteracts this.
In fact, because of the square-root system in the existing formula, more kills already means less DV damage per kill, just not to the same extent.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted March 17, 2008 08:25 PM |
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I don't think the whole Logarithm thing is necesary. I did the very simple change that I specified in the thread linked by Forest001 above, and when I play with the mod, I think the spell is very nicely balanced. Where the spell would before kill maybe 8-9 level 7 creatures, it now kills 3-4, which is still significant in normal matches, but not outrageous.
Of course, it's a matter of taste, but for factions that rely on Light Magic like Sylvana and Haven, it's deffinitely a worthy alternative to Implosion (as these factions are likely to have an at best mediocre spell power) without being allmighty.
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What will happen now?
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Cleave
Promising
Famous Hero
Raging Blood
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posted March 17, 2008 09:47 PM |
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I second what alcibiades said, I've been playing with DV that way for a while now and it's really satisfying. It's powerful (as it should be) but not uber.
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