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| Thread: Snatch's Concept - Second draft |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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Snatch
Promising
Known Hero
Proud Kappa
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posted April 05, 2008 07:19 PM |
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Edited by Snatch at 22:28, 05 Apr 2008.
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Snatch's Concept - Second draft
Snatch's Concept - Second draft
So, here we go. As announced here is my second draft. Some notes about the creature trees: italic creatures need citizens and lines represent upgrades. I hope that all will be clear now. If not feel free to ask. Any comments and suggestions are welcome.
Population:
- has a daily growth
- is restricted by town level
- is needed for some creatures (so called recruits in contrast to so called mercenaries)
- can be represented in a siege by creatures with 'defender of home' special
- is producing the main income
Recruits:
- need citizens (one citizen per unit, except for the ballon and airship which need two)
- will be added to population again if dismissed
- are trained, training must be commanded or it will decay at the end of the week
Mercenaries:
- will vanish if dismissed
- have weekly growing
Combined units:
- need one mercenary and one citizen (except for the orcs who need two mercenaries)
- will be added to population again, you can choose to keep the mercenary
Daevas:
Hero: Nomad
Hero special: logistics
Town setting: oriental
Town specialization: none
Defender of home: thief
Crucial point: Getting the Djinns. Djinns can not be recruited but every hero can buy a djinn lamp with which they can summon the available Djinns in battle. That adds a great amount of versatility to your armies aswell as your first flyer.
Dwarves:
Hero: Seer
Hero special: runes
Town setting: nordic
Town specialization: army enhancements through town buildings
Defender of home: blacksmith
Crucial point: Getting the Norse Elf. The Norse Elf is the first accessible shooter and a very versatile unit because of its magical nature.
(Wood) Elves:
Hero: Summoner
Hero special: summoning (in every battle a stack of spirits, elementals or princes of one element can be summoned, costs mana, elementals must be available in a conflux)
Town setting: forests
Town specialization: concentrated elemental energy (lesser conflux will provide gnomes, nymphs, sylphs and salamanders for summoning in battle, conflux will provide elementals, higher conflux will provide princes of elements)
Defender of home: ranger
Crucial point: Reaching tier 4. At this point your army is complete and there are just some upgrades left.
Gremlins:
Hero: Technician
Hero special: refinement (mechanical creatures can be refined in battles adding new abilities or better statistics according to resource used, costs ressources)
Town setting: industrial
Town specialization: none
Defender of home: craftsman
Crucial point: Resources. Try to collect various ressources to be as flexible as possible.
Humans:
Hero: Paladin
Hero special: tactics
Town setting: medieval
Town specialization: recruits
Defender of home: peasant
Crucial point: Reaching tier 4. Four new available units at this tier will add much strength to your army. Your army will be complete also with just some upgrades left.
Naga:
Hero: Ronin
Hero special: shapeshift (all naga units are shapeshifters with either human or snake appearance, human with one or more snake heads or human with snake tail instead of legs, all forms granting other abilities)
Town setting: far east
Town specialization: recruits
Defender of home: rice farmer
Crucial point: None. This faction is very balanced.
Orcs:
Hero: Barbarian
Hero special: battlerage
Town setting: primitive
Town specialization: combined mercenaries
Defender of home: trapper
Crucial point: Reaching tier 5. This not only makes your army complete with just some upgrades left but provides your army with the only flyer aswell.
Satyrs:
Hero: Adventurer
Hero special: weather magic
Town setting: ancient
Town specialization: recruits
Defender of home: shepherd
Crucial point: Reaching tier 3. Pegasus is your first flying unit, Priests are capable of casting resurrection.
Troglodytes (Cavemen):
Hero: Transmuter
Hero special: transmutation (negate upgrades of enemy units)
Town setting: archaic
Town specialization: melted units (melted citizens can not be added to population again, unit will disappear if dismissed)
Defender of home: gatherer
Crucial point: None. This faction is very balanced.
Vampires:
Hero: Medium
Hero special: soul seeker (collected souls from dead units can be used as combat aid in form of ghosts, for mana restoration or other things)
Town setting: gothic
Town specialization: necromancy (skeletons, walking deads, mummies and lichs need parts of dead bodies to be created, although they are mercenaries their growing is not stored)
Defender of home: grave robber
Crucial point: Protecting the Grave Robbers. Grave Robbers, Desecrators and Necromancers will be your main resource of body parts, so be careful with them or your whole army buildup will break down.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted April 05, 2008 07:45 PM |
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The diagrams are clearer, but somehow, I must admit I liked the way the factions were put together much better in the old scheme. 
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What will happen now?
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Snatch
Promising
Known Hero
Proud Kappa
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posted April 05, 2008 08:21 PM |
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Edited by Snatch at 20:22, 05 Apr 2008.
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Hm... very nice... 
What do you like better in the first draft and what don't you like in the second? More details would be helpful. 
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted April 05, 2008 10:12 PM |
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The Human, Gnome and Night Elf, in particular, seemed a lot more coherent in the old build. Now some of the combinations seem decidedly odd - like Knights and Wizards in one town. 
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What will happen now?
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Snatch
Promising
Known Hero
Proud Kappa
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posted April 05, 2008 10:41 PM |
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That is - I must say it again - most times a matter of taste. Other people criticized that there was no innovation in the humans faction or that gnomes was technics and magic mixed or that elves were the base race for the undeads.
And knights and wizards in one town isn't as incoherent as it seems. Didn't have King Arthur knights AND a wizard called Merlin? This was the athmosphere I thought of.
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bixie
Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
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posted April 06, 2008 09:37 AM |
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Snatch, i can honestly say, well done.
the diagrams are clearer, the race organisation is excellent, and naga and satyr faction are great additions, well done.
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Love, Laugh, Learn, Live.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted April 06, 2008 09:41 AM |
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I can follow your reasoning with the Human town, but personally, I don't find it to be for the better. Of course, here we comes down to a very fundamental question in making a new chapter of the game: Do we want to make a completely new game (i.e. preserve not much of older versions), or do we simply want to upgrade the excisting game. Personally, I'm very much for the approach which is: If it works, don't fix it. Of course, that's a bit of a simplification, I do think features can be evolved in new chapters, to make them better or more advanced - but personally, I think the town organization worked very well in Heroes 5, and it's not what I would address on a new chapter of the game. But: That's deffinitely a personal decision.
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What will happen now?
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Snatch
Promising
Known Hero
Proud Kappa
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posted April 06, 2008 12:37 PM |
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@ bixie: Thanks!
@ alcibiades: Yes, that's a good point. Otherwise than in my first draft I avoided here intentionally to say that this is a Heroes 6 concept because it it is too different to fit in the current Heroes universe. But maybe I will use the thread of my first draft to make a factions suggestion which is based more on the current situation. But some changes have to be done I think. In game mechanics and line-up.
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Snatch
Promising
Known Hero
Proud Kappa
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posted April 06, 2008 02:48 PM |
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@ paraform: Please feel free to make some suggestions. 
And as I said maybe I will make a faction overview with my creature system but more Heroes-like line-ups in my other thread.
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GenieLord
Honorable
Legendary Hero
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posted April 06, 2008 02:56 PM |
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It's really hard for me to understand how can a creature be on level 7 and on level 1 at the same time? Before I give more details feedback, I would like to have an explanation about this point, 'cause I didn't get the point or how it's even possible.
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Adrius
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
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posted April 06, 2008 03:03 PM |
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I still can't understand why so many people vision the Naga as a "japanese/chinese" faction. I don't really see how things as Shaolin (monks?) or Geishas fits with the story...
The only thing we really know about them that is somewhat japanese is the katanas, and they're not even called katanas but Silkswords!
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Snatch
Promising
Known Hero
Proud Kappa
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posted April 06, 2008 03:20 PM |
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@ GenieLord: What especially is your problem? Maybe I should explain the creature charts once more and a bit more. The horizontal numbers numbers are the level or tier, the vertical numbers are just creature numbers and show where the upgrade line of this creature will end. Following the diagonal from the upper left to the lower right you will see your final line-up.
@ Adrius: This isn't intended to fit with any story but my own. It's my concept. But as I said maybe I will make a faction overview with is more coherent with the Heroes universe in my other thread.
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Daystar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Back from the Dead
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posted April 06, 2008 03:27 PM |
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I quite liked this, a few things I would change: Rename the "Norse Elf" to "Snow Elf" just to be on the safe side. Rename "Forest Demon" to "Dendroid" or "Treant." Have a faction of Demons.
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How exactly is luck a skill?
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Cepheus
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
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posted April 06, 2008 03:30 PM |
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Quote:
I still can't understand why so many people vision the Naga as a "japanese/chinese" faction. I don't really see how things as Shaolin (monks?) or Geishas fits with the story...
The only thing we really know about them that is somewhat japanese is the katanas, and they're not even called katanas but Silkswords!
Wrong, we also know that a TotE building specifically called a Naga Temple is in the shape of a pagoda. Now can you understand...
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Adrius
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
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posted April 06, 2008 03:32 PM |
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Thanks, I didn't know that
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Snatch
Promising
Known Hero
Proud Kappa
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posted April 06, 2008 03:46 PM |
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Edited by Snatch at 15:23, 07 Apr 2008.
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@ Daystar: Snow Elf is not what I thought of. It is not intended to be relatet with snow but the northern woods. Renaming Forest Demon wouldn't be a problem. Demons are there already. At least partially. It is the Daeva faction. You can see the creature descriptions below. 'Classic' demons will be implemented as a magical school of dark summoning and possessing.
Thanks for the explanation, Cepheus. Basically naga are Indian myth (aswell as garuda). Because naga and garuda are arch enemies in myth I decided to split them into two different factions rather than making an Indian one. Garuda - as a bird - went to the roc whereas the naga now are the base race for the chinese/japanese faction.
Daevas
Daevas are often referred to as half-demons and most of them actually have some anomalies other races associate with demons like small horns, dark skin, cat-like eyes, tails or similar things. They are indeed the children of humans and desert spirits, which once managed to walk on earth with human shape.
Ghoul
Level: 1
Requirement: none
Good Stats: attack
Bad Stats: health, defense
Abilities: consume corpse (restoring health and resurrecting)
Description: Ghouls are desert-demons, which often intrude graveyards to devour the dead bodies. Some of then even attack careless travellers. They are smaller than humans and more beast-like (think of degenerated gnolls).
Comment: Ghouls aren't a real threat because they are easy to kill although they make fairly good damage. This goes as long as there are no dead units on battlefield. Consuming them make the ghouls much more endurable and very annoying.
Thief
Level: 1
Requirement: one citizen
Good Stats: speed, initiative
Bad Stats: health, defense
Abilities: shooter, no melee penalty, range penalty, thievery (stealing some gold and/or resources with every attack), defender of home
Description: Thieves are a common sight in the streets and bazars of the cities. Their clothes are often beggarly, simple and inconspicuous (think of Disney's Aladdin). They are wearing throwing knives and a small dagger for cutting off moneybags.
Comment: Almost as easy to kill as ghouls the high initiave will grant the thieves to deal a great amount of damage before their death. Their thieving ability will speed up the early town development.
Merchant (upgr. Thief)
Level: 2
Requirement: one citizen
Good Stats: health
Bad Stats: attack
Abilities: shooter, no melee penalty, range penalty, trading (better exchange rates in marketplaces)
Description: In common views merchants are not far better than thieves. Both are squeezing money out of others. Thieves with dexterity and merchants with words. The only difference is that merchants have way better and representative clothing. They are using throwing knives too.
Comment: Merchants are much more steadier than thieves with the drawback that their attacking skills barely improved. But generally they are a fairly balanced unit which can act as ranged attacker and are durable in melee combat aswell.
Yaksha
Level: 2
Requirement: none
Good Stats: defense, health
Bad Stats: initiative, damage
Abilities: treasure seeker (gives higher amount of loose resources), cannibalism (can attack own units to restore health and resurrect itself)
Description: Often spotted in regions with much natural wealth this spirits appear as potbellied small humans. Whereas good yakshas are a symbol of wealth and opulence evil yakshas are more demonic, known for cannibalism and as a threat for travellers.
Comment: After two fragile units in level one here it comes the tank. He will be valueable in early game for protecting ghouls, thieves and merchants but won't do enough damage for endgame.
Rakshasa (upgr. Yaksha)
Level: 3
Requirement: none
Good Stats: attack, defense, health
Bad Stats: initiative
Abilities: no enemy retaliation, cannibalism
Description: Rakshasa are big, stout demons with bloody canine teeth and fingernails.
Comment: A real improvement in terms of attacking this creature will be your main melee unit in combat. The rakshasa is rather slow but very good in dealing and bearing damage. While scouting heroes may prefer yaksha the rakshasa is without doubt the backbone of your main army.
Alchemist
Level: 3
Requirement: one citizen
Good Stats: attack, defense
Bad Stats: health
Abilities: shooter, greek fire (setting a small region of the battlefield on fire)
Description: The plains and deserts may be rough regions but that doesn't hamper the development of culture, magic and science in the towers, palaces and cities in the big oases. Alchemy is somewhat of the supreme discipline in Daeva society and alchemists are respected men and women who are paid very well for their services. Alchemists are skilled with artifacts - they use a magic staff in combat - and inflammable substances.
Comment: A skilled but fragile unit the best use for the alchemist is as a ranged attacker.
Mage (upgr. Alchemist)
Level: 4
Requirement: one citizen
Good Stats: attack, defense
Bad Stats: health
Abilities: shooter, caster
Description: Another step ahead of the alchemists are the mages. They serve as counselors and astrologers for sultans and caliphs.
Comment: Same use as alchemist but more versatile because of their spells.
Djinn
Level: 5
Requirement: none
Good Stats: speed, damage
Bad Stats: defense
Abilities: flyer, random caster, bonded (can't be recruited but summoned everywhere and everytime if hero has bought a djinn lamp)
Description: In former times djinns often wandered the lands in human shape but nowadays the mages have bound this spirits or demons in artifacts to ensure their help and services everywhere and at any time. They appear as young, muscly humans ending in a desert tornado.
Comment: Djinns are your mobile task force. Just buy every hero a lamp and they will be able to summon them everywhere. There are no restrictions. Your scout come upon enemy scout while your main hero is aiming for the enemy's castle? No problem. Djinns will help them both. Once on battlefield Djinns are fast and good damage dealers but not well-equipped for enemy attacks.
Horseman
Level: 3
Requirement: one citizen
Good Stats: speed, initiative
Bad Stats: defense
Abilities: first strike (retaliation will take place before enemy attack)
Description: Horsemen are messengers between the oases, accompany caravans or even may rob them. They play an essential part in the infrastructure of the caliphates.
Comment: Horsemen are an average unit but will provide you with mobility and attacking power as long as you can't afford the expensive djinn dwelling.
Elephant (upgr. Horseman)
Level: 6
Requirement: one citizen
Good Stats: damage, health
Bad Stats: speed
Abilities: shooter, no melee penalty, range penalty, damage walls (melee attack), roar (reducing initiative and morale of nearby enemies)
Description: Elephants are big and impressive creatures which only the richest men can afford and so are very prestigious objects. Elephants trained for war are carrying a little balcony with an archer in it.
Comment: The big allrounder. Melee combat? Ranged combat? Siege walls? Nothing seems to be a problem for the elephants if they only weren't so slow.
Roc
Level: 6
Requirement: none
Good Stats: none
Bad Stats: none
Abilities: flyer, eagle eyes (hero receives a bonus to his range of view), gliding flight (speed is doubled, damage is halved, enemy is choosen randomly but always in the distant half of the roc's new speed)
Description: The rocs are giant eagles nesting in the rougher and rockier regions.
Comment: Rocs are tough and mobile units and they are very good for scouts. As they are available only in the late game this will help best on large maps.
Garuda (upgr. Roc)
Level: 7
Requirement: none
Good Stats: attack, defense
Bad Stats: none
Abilities: flyer, eagle eyes, gliding attack (same as gliding flight, but the enemy is chooseable by player), snake slayer (deals additional damage to nagas - even those in human shape - and all creatures with scales)
Description: Garuda are the most majestic of all birds and birdlike creatures. Only the satyrs and phoenixes are doubting that and it has to be said that in terms of elegance the phoenix really is better. But that's all.
Comment: With their aimed gliding flights the Garudas are without doubt the most mobile unit of the game with the whole battlefield in their range.
Analysis
A very versatile faction with great mobility and attacking power in the end. The low-level creatures are of good use for collecting resources and money for the higher dwellings, mage guilds and especially the expensive djinn building. The demons can be used strategically. If you've lost some yakshas or rakshasas just let them eat some ghouls which then can eat the dead enemy bodies to restore. Naturally this tactic only is realiseable if you are fighting against several stacks.
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Snatch
Promising
Known Hero
Proud Kappa
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posted April 06, 2008 05:17 PM |
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Edited by Snatch at 20:48, 06 Apr 2008.
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And the second.
Dwarves
Dwarves are little beings with some resemblance to humans. But they mostly are stout, have darker skin and flowing beards. They dwell in the northern, colder and rougher regions of the world.
Blacksmith
Level: 1
Requirement: one citizen
Good Stats: initiative, health
Bad Stats: attack
Abilities: forge (can annul defense reduction by spells or creature abilities, works on all mechanical units and all units with armor), defender of home
Description: A dwarf with leather apron and hammer. Mining and forging are the most common crafts under dwarves and they are very skilled in them.
Comment: Durable like almost all dwarven units blacksmiths are more mobile as warriors and come in higher numbers but deal lesser damage.
Will-o'-the-wisp
Level: 2
Requirement: none
Good Stats: speed, defense
Bad Stats: health
Abilities: flyer, incorporeal, distracting attack (distracted enemies will follow the will-o'-the-wisp if it moves)
Description: Will-o'-the-wisps or spook lights are magical beings natural to the northern moors where they often distract incautious wanderes.
Comment: Generally very weak beings it is their incorporeal ability which makes will-o'-the-wisp lasting quite a time in battle. Their numbers are high too. The distracting ability will come in handy to lure enemy shooters to your slower melee units or to help attacked and weakened own units.
Warrior
Level: 1
Requirement: one citizen
Good Stats: defense, health
Bad Stats: initiative, speed
Abilities: large shield
Description: A dwarf with armor, helmet, axe and shield. Living in a region with dangerous beasts, giants and dragons almost every dwarf knows how to hold an axe and how to fight with it.
Comment: A fairly good tank unit the warriors are very slow due to their heavy armor and shield you should hope that the will-o'-the-wisps always will distract enough fodder for them. Their upgrade seems inevitable.
Berserker (upgr. Warrior)
Level: 3
Requirement: one citizen
Good Stats: defense, health
Bad Stats: initiative
Abilities: rage (attacks all adjacent enemies without fear of retaliation, causes double damage, looses his own retaliation)
Description: A dwarf with armor, helmet and two axes. Berserkers are the dwarfen elite fighters, highly skilled in axe combat.
Comment: With added attack power this unit will be very valueable in early and mid game. His range is higher but it still is slow.
Norse Elf
Level: 4
Requirement: none
Good Stats: defense, speed
Bad Stats: damage
Abilities: teleport, caster, shooter
Description: A slender, androgynous youngling with a bright robe and a silvery shimmer around him. Norse elves are the spirits of the northern forests and distant cousins of faeries, sprites and wood elves. Some even see a relation between norse elves and dwarfs by saying that the latter are nothing other than mountain elves.
Comment: Norse elves are a great enrichment to your army adding much needed versatily. They are very mobile, can cast spells and are your first available ranged unit.
Bear
Level: 3
Requirement: none
Good Stats: damage, health
Bad Stats: attack, defense
Abilities: enraged
Description: Bears are native animals in the northern region. They are rather sweet-tempered if they are not provoked.
Comment: A big, jovial damage dealer with which you can cuddle after the battle.
Bear Rider (upgr. Bear)
Level: 5
Requirement: one citizen
Good Stats: defense, damage
Bad Stats: attack
Abilities: enraged, paw strike
Description: Dwarves learnt really quick how to tame bears and use them effective in battle. Bears are very loyal to their masters. Bear Riders are armored and have dwarven warriors on their back.
Comment: Bear riders are a heavier and more mobile alternative to berserkers. They will serve well in an endgame army.
Troll
Level: 6
Requirement: none
Good Stats: attack, initiative
Bad Stats: speed, defense
Abilities: shooter (area attack), regeneration
Description: Trolls are malformed dark creatures. Taller than humans but smaller than giants. They live in caves in the mountains, sometimes also near rivers, and often fight with troglodytes and their beastly creatures for living space. Dwarves are the only ones who can cope well with trolls because they are distant relatives. Trolls throw heavy rocks at their enemies.
Comment: Finally we have it. A real dwarven attack unit. Trolls are agile and really durable due to their regeneration ability. They lack some armor however.
Giant
Level: 6
Requirement: none
Good Stats: damage, health
Bad Stats: initiative
Abilities: damage walls
Description: Giants are huge... really huge and rather plump. They wear a fur armor and are armed with clubs made of tree trunks.
Comment: Big, durable, dealing serious damage and... slow. Best used as a shield for trolls.
Jotun (upgr. Giant)
Level: 7
Requirement: none
Good Stats: damage, attack
Bad Stats: initiative
Abilities: big step (stepping about town walls and damaging them), stomp (all nearby enemies loose some accumulated initiave), impale (attack damages target and the unit behind)
Description: Jotuns are still bigger than normal giants. They are armed with big wooden spears made of the tree trunks and wear leather armor and a leather helmet.
Comment: Excellent attacker if he had a higher speed. But nevertheless a great addition to your army in late game dealing some of the biggest damage in the whole game.
Analysis
The dwarfen faction is slow and defensive. Their units are average and heavily rely on rune buildings, which are build in dwarfen towns and add stat points and abilities. The will-o'-the-wisps make up for the weaknesses a bit while luring the enemies to their comrades who can deal and/or cope with huge amounts of damage easily.
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 06, 2008 09:05 PM |
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Good but some bad names.
Norse Elf? Why not only call it "Alfar" or Black/Light Elf?
The orginal name of elves were alfar, in swedish "alfer" can mean elves.
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Snatch
Promising
Known Hero
Proud Kappa
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posted April 06, 2008 09:22 PM |
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Alfar would be a very good idea. But I thought I had to translate it so that it is understandable for everyone which type of creature this is. But I think now with a description available it will be no problem to change it.
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bixie
Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
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posted April 07, 2008 09:05 AM |
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Quote:
Have a faction of Demons.
he has one...ish. the Deavas (and i hope that your going to be inventive with the campaign and have the Deavas attacked for no good reason by the humans)
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Love, Laugh, Learn, Live.
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