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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: Zeitgeist - The Movie
Thread: Zeitgeist - The Movie
TitaniumAlloy
TitaniumAlloy


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posted April 06, 2008 01:40 PM
Edited by TitaniumAlloy at 13:44, 06 Apr 2008.

Zeitgeist - The Movie

One of the most shocking yet enthralling things I have seen.
Zeitgeist

Watch it.
Regardless of what you believe it's worth watching.

It comes in three parts:
1. Religion
2. USA and 9/11
3. Centralized banking (Federal Reserve), the War machine and other hoaxes

From Wikipedia (where I would normally self-summarize I can't be bothered)


Quote:
Part I: The Greatest Story Ever Told
Horus left and Jesus right
Horus left and Jesus right

Part I evaluates the historicity of the Bible. In furtherance of the Jesus myth hypothesis, this part argues that the historical Jesus is a literary and astrological hybrid,[7] and that the Bible is based on astrological principles documented by many ancient civilizations, especially pertaining to the movement of the sun through the sky and stars. The film explains how and why early civilizations personified the Sun as the "representative of the unseen Creator or God" and how stars were linked into constellations, the 12 constellations being a place of travel for "God's Sun" and representing "elements of nature that happened during that period of time." This section is also used by the film to show the Pagan origins of the symbol of the Cross.

Horus, the Ancient Egyptian Sun God, is introduced as having a number of attributes in common with Jesus. For instance, Horus was born on December 25th of a virgin mother, his arrival was proclaimed by a star in the east and upon his birth he was adored by three kings. He was a child teacher at 12, was baptized at 30, traveled with 12 disciples and performed acts such as healing the sick and walking on water. The relationship between Horus and Set is also discussed. The movie describes this conflict as "one of the most ubiquitous mythological dualities ever known and it's still expressed at many levels at this day."

According to the movie, religion and myths in general can be used to motivate people to be good or remember important astrological occurrences, but ultimately if the majority of people believe in something that is not true, then they are in danger of being controlled or oppressed.

Part II: All the World's a Stage
9/11 attacks
9/11 attacks

Part II of the documentary claims 9/11 was engineered to generate mass fear, justify going to war with Afghanistan and Iraq, to remove civil liberties from the general public, and to make more money for the people in power. These theories include that the United States was warned about the impending September 11, 2001 attacks, that NORAD allowed the planes to reach their targets, and that the World Trade Center buildings underwent a controlled demolition. The film also explores the theory that six of the named hijackers are still alive, that Hani Hanjour could not have flown Flight 77 into the Pentagon, that the Bush Administration covered up the truth in the 9/11 Commission Report, and that the mainstream media has failed to ask important questions about the official account.

Part III: Don't Mind the Men Behind the Curtain
The Federal Reserve
The Federal Reserve

According to Part III, powerful bankers have been conspiring for world domination and increased power while the rich of society have been using their wealth to increase financial panic and foster a consolidation of independent competing banks. The film details the Theory of Electronic Conspiracy and claims that the Federal Reserve System, the central bank of the United States, was created in order to steal the wealth of the nation. It explores war profiteering by banking cartels and defense and military contractors. It describes the goal of these bankers as world power over a controllable public.[8]

This section also explores the possibility that there is a clandestine movement, promoted by the Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America, to usurp the American constitution and US dollar, by merging the United States, Canada and Mexico into a North American Union that uses a single currency, the Amero, without the ratification of Congress. This currency union would create a super-state similar to the European Union, which together with the African Union and the proposed Asian Union would gradually be merged into a One World government. The movie concludes that under such a government, every human being will be implanted with a RFID microchip which will be used to monitor individuals and suppress dissent. It also claims that the Internal Revenue Service and the U.S. Federal Income Tax are unconstitutional and there are no laws which state that citizens must pay the tax. The movie ends, however, on an optimistic note, expressing confidence in the possibility of overthrowing oppressive forces and the ultimate triumph of revolution.




Thoughts?
And please don't rebut unless you've actually bothered to watch the movie, otherwise it's just tedious...
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TitaniumAlloy
TitaniumAlloy


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posted April 06, 2008 01:47 PM
Edited by TitaniumAlloy at 13:53, 06 Apr 2008.

One of the interesting points made, on the topic of centralized banking with interest being one of the main reasons for America's independence, was that Income Tax is against the constitution and that there is no law binding you to pay it.

Quoted from the website FAQ:
Quote:
1) Isn't the Income Tax Law stated in Title 26 of the IRS code?
Wasn't the 16th Amendment fully ratified? Do I have to pay taxes?

(A) The Income tax is not applicable to the wages of a person for wages paid for a service is Barter and this by all precedent via the supreme court decisions is not "taxable income". There is no statute for the average wage earner to pay taxes; just for corporate gains. (B) Even if there was a law, it would be unconstitutional for you are being forced to be a witness against yourself by the mandatory filing and signing of the return (5th amendment), which is why in the code is says discreetly that the filing is "voluntary", even though it isn't practiced as such. (C) What is codified in Title 26 does not make the average person liable to pay income tax.

In order for there to be taxable domestic income, all of the following
must occur:
1. One must receive a taxable "item" of income such as compensation, interest, rents, etc. (per 26 USC 61 and following).
2. The "source rules" must categorize the income as domestic income (per 26 USC 861(a) and 26 CFR 1.861-2 through 1.861-7).
3. The income must derive from a "specific source or activity"which is taxable (per 26 USC 861(b) and 26 CFR 1.861-8 and following).

(D) As far as the 16th amendment, it was not even remotely close to legal ratification, therefore voiding the whole thing as unconstitutional.

See:
"The Law That Never was" by Bill Benson for more info on the 16th Amendment.

Challenge:
http://livefreenow.org/30K_challenge.cfm

As far as paying taxes, yes, you have to pay taxes... not because you are legally bound to, but because the Establishment Courts ignore the illegality of the issue. There are numerous cases of individuals who have been acquitted on the grounds that the court could not prove the law. However, none of these have been powerful enough to incite public opinion to take a stand. There have been many who have fought the system with a certain degree of success but if you do choose to challenge your personal income taxes, you need to be VERY prepared. We recommend this free Book by Conklin to begin.



Another was the controlled demolition expert saying how they cut the steel supports on an angle.. then this image
http://www.rumormillnews.com/pix3/pic87970.jpg


I'd also never heard of the North American Union movement before...
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mamgaeater
mamgaeater


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posted April 06, 2008 01:52 PM

must move out of america before too late
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TitaniumAlloy
TitaniumAlloy


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posted April 06, 2008 01:54 PM

It's not just about America...
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Doomforge
Doomforge


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posted April 06, 2008 02:11 PM

The first part isn't the best. I may sound like a biased Christian, but sorry, the arguments weren't pretty good, and the logic failed at times.


The other two were better.


Overrated document.

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executor
executor


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posted April 06, 2008 10:54 PM
Edited by executor at 22:55, 06 Apr 2008.

In the finale I got a feeling that this is just a NewAge propaganda movie, poor on factual data. I noticed tens of false pieces of information, mostly in the first part(religion), but also in the third (banking & co).
As to the one on 9/11, I do not have information reliable enough to call it false, but should it be true, I'd consider US rulers as one of the most malevolent in known history .
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TitaniumAlloy
TitaniumAlloy


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posted April 07, 2008 09:03 AM

False information such as what?
I'm curious, I haven't found any kind of rebuttal to this... searching just brings up "this documentary sucks/is overrated/is wrong" etc.
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Doomforge
Doomforge


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posted April 07, 2008 12:49 PM

I watched the movie quite a long time ago and I don't remember it too well, so I can't address specific things that didn't really seem right. I just don't remember I'm not saying Zeitgeist sucks, but it's overrated - some "too modern" people kinda treat it as a New Age Bible - believe in everything they say in it, and their major argument in any discussion is "watch Zeitgeist". uh-huh. Yea.

Some religion "facts" were incorrect because I actually know a lot about Christianity-paganism relationship and a lot of "facts" were a bit far-fetched. As a Christian I tried to learn all about eventual gaps, logical mistakes and scam in my religion, because I don't like to be misled or fooled, but those never were severe enough to consider my religion totally wrong. Catholic Christianity is another matter, which I found severely defiled by countless pagan accretions, the remains of Popes' absolute authority (countless decrees of no meaning that changed simple form of Christianity into some weird machinery with zounds of holidays and a swarm of saints to believe in instead of God), but I didn't leave Christianity because of it, but rather swapped Catholicism for Evangelism.

So in other words Zeitgeist wasn't anything new to me, and nothing impressive.

The remaining two parts were just a speculation, not a bad one but we can't treat it as the absolute truth, a lot of things right or at least logically correct but still not enough to consider it as 100% correct.


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TitaniumAlloy
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posted April 07, 2008 01:02 PM

Something being overrated doesn't really affect me.
Partly because I don't live in America and I'd never heard of this before, but even if I had other people's opinions don't really influence me in that way so I can make up my own mind generally.

BTW this is the new revised version, I'm not sure of the differences though.
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Wolfman
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posted April 07, 2008 06:05 PM

I watched this a few months ago, then I did some research.  First part is pretty good but the sources for the rest is a little loose.  I don't believe it because of the people they take their information from.  I think it brings up some interesting points that should be addressed, but I don't think it provides any great "truth".
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friendofgunnar
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posted April 07, 2008 06:33 PM

here's a book you ought to read TA.  Taken together with the pagan associations outlined in zeitgeist it provides a pretty thorough explanation for how christianity arose.

It's basically about a jewish sect named the essenes and their writings, which came to be known as the dead sea scrolls.  During the new testament era people claiming to be messiahs sprouted like weeds. One was John the Baptist, who the essenes took to be the messiah.  Jesus was another.  In the book it shows how portions of the dead sea scrolls were a smear campaign against Jesus's claims to be the messiah.

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executor
executor


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posted April 07, 2008 10:10 PM
Edited by executor at 22:15, 07 Apr 2008.

What I said about lots of mistakes is that I happen to know ancient aegyptian mytho- and theology quite well, and in the movie they mixed up a great deal of different motives and deities into one deity (Horus - which one of Horuses by the way ) and, in general, oversimplified the complex relations dities there had. Also they credited this ancient religion with beliefs that never arouse there, such as virgin birth, which originated in India few centuries after ancient Egypt's glory was gone.
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Minion
Minion


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posted April 07, 2008 10:25 PM
Edited by Minion at 22:31, 07 Apr 2008.

True, the Virgin birth is definately a more christian consept. However, Isis the mother of Horus was called also the Heavenly Virgin. But it was never such a big deal for them, untill later period of Egyptian religion when Isis worshippers lived their lives in abstinence.

As for the many forms of Horus, is that really relevant? They would have needed at least half an hour more if they had have to explan how the deities were seen in Egypt.The main point still remains that most of the dates and events of these deities are recycled through different religions.

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executor
executor


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posted April 08, 2008 12:16 AM
Edited by executor at 00:17, 08 Apr 2008.

Isis was a virgin until she reassembled (?) her husband Osiris, whom got torn apart by Set(his brother), and her love resurrected him. Howerver, his penis was still lacking, so she substituted it with an artificial one (before revival), and it worked. That's how the most known Horus was born . Therefore she was a virgin before she consumed her marriage with husband, not after.
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Minion
Minion


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posted April 08, 2008 01:04 AM
Edited by Minion at 01:07, 08 Apr 2008.

Very interesting.

My sources are mostly rather vague on the term, but nowhere it is said that Isis and Osiris had sex. Rather, these are some quotes

The Pimlico Dictionary of Classical Mythologies : Cotterell, Arthur : "Isis miraculously concieved Horus from the resurrected god...."

The Secret Teachings of All Ages : Manly P. Hall
"Isis, although she gave birth to all living things--chief among them the Sun--still remained a virgin, according to the legendary accounts."

The Golden Bough, by Frazer, Sir James George
"...jewelled images of the Mother of God, presented many points of similarity to the pomps and ceremonies of Catholicism. The resemblance need not be purely accidental. Ancient Egypt may have contributed its share to the gorgeous symbolism of the Catholic Church as well as to the pale abstractions of her theology. Certainly in art the figure of Isis suckling the infant Horus is so like that of the Madonna and child that it has sometimes received the adoration of ignorant Christians."

The last quote doesn't state that Isis was actually a virgin, but her resembance to the worship of Virgin Mary. Many sources on the internet give her as virgin-mother as well. But if you have some more reliable sources I'd be interested Or I'll stop by the library tomorrow

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executor
executor


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posted April 08, 2008 04:11 PM
Edited by executor at 16:25, 08 Apr 2008.

Adonis, Attis, Osiris. Studies in the History of Oriental Religion. by James George Frazer
Can't find the quote, but there was clearly stated that according to the mythos Isis had an intercourse with Osiris after attaching an artificial phallus to the body. However, it is not fully clear, whether Osiris was already ressurected or not. In the book, as I remember, it's perceived as if he wasn't, but that's still an intercourse ( quite a necrophilic one ).

As I stated before, aegyptian religion and belief system was very complex, deities' portfolios, relationships and their perception shifted over time, and most possibly, we're both right . And by no means I doubt your sources, just the matter is very comlex in itself.

But let us end this offtopic here. We may make another topic or talk via HCM or MSN or whatever .
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