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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: The HRS
Thread: The HRS This thread is 5 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · «PREV / NEXT»
Cleave
Cleave


Promising
Famous Hero
Raging Blood
posted April 24, 2008 08:50 PM
Edited by Cleave at 20:51, 24 Apr 2008.

My bad! Thanks (I was upset because of Zoltan's defeat).

I hope Vinrael succeeds.

And I'd like to see Rangers with strange builds (Zoltan with Light looked good).
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13 Heroes

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Golemcrafter
Golemcrafter


Promising
Famous Hero
Unlimited Fantasy Master
posted April 24, 2008 08:56 PM

Don't you want, Arxur, to tell us at first, how you would pair the coming heroes with each other so we could guess the battles' results? It would be great and then perhaps, more posts would come as well...

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Cleave
Cleave


Promising
Famous Hero
Raging Blood
posted April 24, 2008 09:14 PM

Quote:
Don't you want, Arxur, to tell us at first, how you would pair the coming heroes with each other so we could guess the battles' results? It would be great and then perhaps, more posts would come as well...


He takes them in the order so expect:

Dirael vs Vinrael.

Gilraen vs Ylthin.

Wyngaal vs Anwen.

Talanar vs Ossir.

Place your bets ladies and gentlemen.

My guess is that Vinrael, Ylthin, Wyngaal and Ossir will win the first round.
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arxur
arxur


Adventuring Hero
posted April 24, 2008 09:36 PM
Edited by arxur at 21:56, 24 Apr 2008.

The map messes up with the order. The hero's order is the same order as the players, but there is a mistake I noticed after the Demon Lords:

1. Dirael VS Vinrael
2. (here is a mistake) Gilrean VS Wyngaal
3. (here too) Ylthin VS Anwen
4. Talanar VS Ossir

Since this map was played with the first 2 factions, I didn't wanted to modify it. But if you check out the battles before you will find the same mistake.

About the balance: that's true that the results would be much more well balanced, but that would make very similar heroes. We try to develop each hero around their special skill. We try to find new, sometimes very exotic strategies. So I know that we don't play the perfect way, but maybe we will find something more interesting.

I have updated the Vladimir VS Naadir battle!!!

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted April 24, 2008 10:03 PM

Developing around special and starting skills makes sense of course, what I don't get is why you think it would end up as clone heroes. I mean there are more than a few alternative and effective I might add ways to play each faction and I have certainly seen as much for sylvan.

I'll check the replays a little later.
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Map also hosted on Moddb

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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted April 25, 2008 08:47 AM

Quote:
Vladimir VS Naadir

One hero that starts with 2 magic schools. Just like Raven. I think 1 magic school is far enough for one hero, sine there won't be so much time to cast hundreds of different spells. You need only one very good spell. And that is usually enough. His special is interesting but very limited. The amount of ghosts summoned is very low. Ans is rather useless during the creeping. Maybe he should just increase the defence and attack rate of ghosts... Like Orson or Lucretia.


I need to address this point ... everything in this paragraph is just wrong, wrong and plain wrong. First of all, the combination Dark + Summoning Magic is extremely powerful for a Necromancer - maybe less so when facing another Necromancer, but don't underestimate the importance of Mass Slow, Mass Suffering or Mass Vulnerability on your enemies units. Summoning is great for Necromancers - not so much because of the somewhat sappy Raise Dead skill (is useful if you have the upper hand, but unlikely to buy you much time if the case is the opposite, because of the -20 % HP penalty).

Your priority with Naadir will be going for Mage Guild 5 asap hoping for - well, actually, any Dark Magic spell at level 5 will help you in creeping, and Phoenix is, well, Phoenix. Arcane Armor is not half bad either. That two Magic Skills are too much is untrue - when you rely on spells, it's all about versatility and being able to adapt to the situation - having a wider range of spells will give you more options and make you more versatile.

Finally, Naadir's special is probably one of the best in the game. During creeping, you can sacrifice stacks of 1 skeleton to raise a ghost which will then eat up one or even several retaliations due to incorporeal ability.

~ End of rant, sorry. ~
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arxur
arxur


Adventuring Hero
posted April 25, 2008 10:02 AM

I never liked sacraficing troops. Even if it's just one skeleton. Still good tactics for Naadir. But you can admit that this special doesn't help too much in the finale battle.

Well, I'm still on the opinion, that one magic school is enough. But no one has to agree with it.

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted April 25, 2008 11:12 AM

You don't sacrifice anything, you only need to kill the enemy. Plus you make it impossible for the opponent to raise the unit right afterwards.
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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted April 25, 2008 12:17 PM

Checked the replays.
Lucretia's vamps did not decide anything, it was obvious from the very beginning. Also Orson did not play it safe, he should have foreseen where the mines were. And surround the skelies like that for what? They were few to deal any serious damage. Orson could have had a better army and upgraded vamps if he were to do something.

About Raven VS Zoltan I'm pretty sure Zoltan could have won. Saw a few mistakes but I can't remember. One was in the end where the vampires were away to attack again and using icebolt rather than a raise dead. I don't remember if he had the mana but he could have saved a few spellpoints for that. Oh and leaving his shooters close so they could be blocked easier.

Quote:
Deirdre's special was useless in this game. And he also starts with dark magic. Not much use too... Can't say much about her. Her starting skills just didn't fit in this situation. And she had to fight against the great Kaspar... Poor Deirdre...

You are kidding me. Ok dark is not my best weapon against necro but mass spells are still good. It's warmachines that are crappy in comparison.
Still, when you see he has battle frenzy why cast slow? It's pretty obvious that it will be countered with mass haste right after. Also the raised unit ratio was not good. Too many liches that are not mobile or damaging enough. Plus there was no need to move the units forward, the opponent would come to you exactly because you had more ranged power. You let him strike your melee first and had your ranged exposed.

The final battle was one sided too. But then how could it not be after sacrifising 50 vampire lords like that..? In any case it pretty much shows that too many skeletons can be better than too many vamps He who has the better army holds the advantage because using a mass haste or arcane armour your opponent to counter it rather than take offensive.
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arxur
arxur


Adventuring Hero
posted April 25, 2008 07:29 PM
Edited by arxur at 19:35, 25 Apr 2008.

About Zoltan VS Raven:

If you check again you will see that Raven in his last turns only attacks and do not casts any spells, however she had enough mana for an ice bolt due to mark of the necromancer. She just noticed it in her last strike. Zoltan could have casted raise dead but that wouldn't help because Raven had more Ice bolt in stock. And if she began earlier to cast it than Zoltan's army would have been dead MUCH earlier. Check out if you don't believe me.

About Orson and Lucretia:

It's easy to say that he could have been avoided the fire traps, but if you think about it, Lucretia could have set those traps around the liches. Orson could have played better, but after two battle 2:0 was the finale outcome for Lucretia.

The mass spells was good for Deidre. I meant that her SPECIAL was not much use against Kaspar. And if someone beats that Kaspar with THAT Deirdre I will bow before him/her.

Khmm... I don't really understand what you wanted to say about the Vladimir-Naadir fight... ^^ I should tell you that the Orson/Lucretia and the Naadir/Vladimir replay I uploaded was the 2nd rematch. So mistakes were made, since we already knew what will the final outcome be. It was just impossible for Naadir to destroy Vladimir's army. In the end Vladimir didn't lost even half of his troops.

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carcity
carcity


Supreme Hero
Blind Sage
posted April 26, 2008 01:23 PM

I knew that vladimir would win. he is for me the second best necro hero. (the best is deirdre).
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arxur
arxur


Adventuring Hero
posted April 26, 2008 05:04 PM

I have a question about Deirdre.

Her bonus works with the necromancer's secret tech too? And if yes, than how much more effective b. howl will be?
Does anyone know this?

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted April 26, 2008 05:57 PM

For 2 necro set items Banshee Howl will decrease enemy's Morale and Luck by -2 and its Initiative by -20% at half atb action. I'd say that's pretty powerful, yes.
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arxur
arxur


Adventuring Hero
posted April 26, 2008 06:10 PM

So if Deirdre has the set she reduces morale/luck by 3 and initiative with 30%?

And what about howl of terror? She boosts even that too?

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Lexxan
Lexxan


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
posted April 26, 2008 07:16 PM

Quote:

1. Dirael VS Vinrael
2. Gilrean VS Wyngaal
3. Ylthin VS Anwen
4. Talanar VS Ossir




Dirael vs Vinrael:

Definately Vinrael; Diraels special isn't interesting an dher starting skill are awfull for a Ranger (Summoning wtf???)


Gilraen vs Wyngaal:


I alraedy played a similar battle in H5, and that time Gilraen kicked Wyngaals @$$. Gilraens skills are better than Wyngaals; Protection is IMHO better than Tactics...

Ylthin vs Anwen

I have a soft spot for Ylthin. She starts with Master of Blessings, a Unicorn and an First Aid tent. Ylthin is Sylvan's best hero for early game! I never played Anwen before, so I hope she can't beat Ylthin.

Talanar vs Ossir

Do I need to clear that out. Ossir is the best Sylvan Hero (5-8 Hunters in Day one, Luck, Resistance) Talanars special is stronger than Ossirs theoretically, but I still think Ossir will win. Hunter will slay Talanars Dancers, Hunters and Druids, before you even can blink. Mark my words

So I say: Vinrael, Ylthin, Ossir and Gilraen.

Other finalist will be (I guess): Jhora, Galib, Havez and Faiz for Academy and Sinitar, Eruina, Valishan (Right Spelling ? I mean the Scout bloke) and Lethos for Dungeon





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Coincidence? I think not!!!!

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Fauch
Fauch


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted April 26, 2008 08:44 PM

vinrael, wyngaal, ythlin and ossir will win imo.

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arxur
arxur


Adventuring Hero
posted April 26, 2008 09:18 PM

I never understood why people underestimate Dirael and Anwen.

I'll tell you, that Anwen's special deals +40% damage for favoured enemies at level 20. Doesn't it sound a bit overpowered...?

Dirael is the best sylvan hero. Bee swarm + rain shower will make the enemies to never act again in the battle. She is my personal favourite.  If you combine it with empathy and with the druid's channling ability you will never lose a single battle...

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Arxur
Arxur


Adventuring Hero
posted April 27, 2008 03:10 PM
Edited by Arxur at 18:48, 29 Apr 2008.

It's time for the Rangers:

Talanar VS Ossir

Talanar's starting skill is a nice bonus to all lv 1-4 sylvan unit, because they get enraged if one of their ally dies. However, if you think about it pixies, dancer and archers are the always the main target of the enemy. They usually die in the first 3 round, being able to attack twice or one more time. They die too easy to have really a big usefulness of this special. Light magic always serves well rangers. Destructive magic was learned from a witch hut. And in the last two level ups Talanar was offered with war machines. But it was too late for him to master the ballista.



Ossir was lucky enough to learn dark magic and mass decoy. Archery is must to boost even more his archers. He learned defense from a witch hut and in the last battle I found "last stand" very useful. It saves a lots of time for the hero to cast more spells in combat. Instead of building unicorn dwelling I built treant alcove. It's a very good idea to start collecting those huge treants very early, because in the last battle they will give a huge headache for the enemies. Not to mention if they are defending...



We replayed this battle three times. First, Ossir left one stack archer uncovered and Talanar teleported his treants next to them. In the 2nd and 3rd battle the archers were very well protected, so Talanar couldn't really do anything to stop them. Ossir won easily.

Dirael VS Vinrael

Dirael is my personal favourite hero. I used my usually tactics with her. Bee swarm + imbue arrow + arrow rain and the enemies never act again. She wasn't offered with diplomacy so she missed empathy very much. But she got war machines from a witch hut! Isn't she the luckiest hero ever...?



Vinrael's EXP bonus means usually a +2 or 3 bonus level before the finale fight. We wanted to teach him destructive magic to turn him into a powerful warlock, but during the 17 level ups, destructive magic was NEVER offered to him... Isn't he the unluckiest hero ever...? That would have been his key to the victory against Dirael. In the end he choose tactics to be able to have a first strike on the enemies.



Still, Vinrael dealt very high damage with a single lightening bolt, due to the artifact. The first assault tactic worked pretty good and in the end only some of Dirael's troops survived. The crazy-magic-ballista is one of the most overpowered things in the whole game. I know that lots of you like Vinrael, but we have to say goodbye to him.

Gilraen VS Wyngaal

Gireaen was offered too with war machines. (8/3, not bad, huh...?) However, he wasn't able to develop it to the fullest, so he wasn't as dangerous as Dirael. I wanted to obtain the extra war dancers, but he wasn't offered with the needed skills in time. He got logistics from witch hut, so I wanted to teach him familiar ground, so wind dancers could enjoy even one more +2 defense bonus.



Wyngaal was a mighty might hero. In the end game he got destructive magic to be able to deal more damage. He got sorcery from a witch hut. Some people say that his special is overpowered and they have maybe right. Tactics boosts this first strike even more.



I don't know the sure reason why Wyngaal lost. Maybe it's because of the expert defense or I don't know why. If you see check the replays you will see for yourself how Wyngaal's army goes down. Wyngaal's bonus boosts only the starting initiative, so maybe it's not enough if the enemy can survive the first strike...?

Anwen VS Ylthin

She is the most underestimated sylvan hero. But it you think about it, because of her special all of her troops deal +40% damage to 3 favored  enemy at level 20. This means that you can destroy the enemies 3 key unit almost with a single hit. I turned her into a might hero to deal even more damage and boosted her avenger skill with know your enemy. In the last 2 level ups, she learned dark magic, so she used rain of arrows with advanced sorrow.



The cute Ylthin was the "magicest" hero in this game. Having expert light magic and white unicorns made new meaning of this magic school. She got summoning magic from a witch hut and learned fog veil, to prevent enemy shooter from acting first. Pretty useful skill. Expert enlightenment gave her a huge status boost and advanced attack made her unicorns to be even more deadly. Ohh... And have you ever think about it, that she is the only hero in the game, who can boost the stats of a fifth level creature...?



Anwen's special worked great. The three favored enemy (pixies, dancers, archers) died after a single hit. However Ylthin's remained troops coused big trouble. Ylthin had mass deflect missile, telportation and of course ressurection, which turned the tide of the combat. Her unicorns were not destroyable. So she killed everything with it and with her druids. If Anwen could have killed unicorns, maybe she would had a chance to kill them.

I think, the replays are very worthy to check out: rangers.rar - 0.72MB

Feel free to leave any comment.

Next time:
The 8 Warlocks!!!

Edit:
Someone comment please. I don't want to triple post for the Warlocks...

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carcity
carcity


Supreme Hero
Blind Sage
posted April 29, 2008 09:46 PM

Really nice work with the rangers. but with anwen you could try to get the favoured enemy to unicorns when you are facin a hero with them as special. and by the way. for how long have you played HoMMV and how ggod do you think you are?
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Why can't you save anybody?

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Fauch
Fauch


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted April 29, 2008 10:18 PM

where do I have to put a .sav???

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